Which newsstory registered with you, most?

lemond hunting accident

1980: Zoetemelk finally managed to win the Tour... With the help of his super domestique: Johan Van de Velde

I remember seeing a picture of Andre Tchmil's legs that made me want to go hurt someone because of the violence contained in them.

http://209.246.137.47/2002/tchmil/image1.html
Seriously, check them out.

http://209.246.137.47/2002/tchmil/image1.html
Seriously, check them out.

Good heavens! That's intimidating!

limerickman said:

Re-reading some back copies of various cycling publications, reminded me of the impact of certain stories in our sport.

Personally, I found the death of Pantani had a major impact on me.
Having been fortunate enough to see him ride the TDF in France and TDF here in my own country, his untimely death still defies belief.
When I read the news that February morning, I couldn't believe that he was dead.

The Museeuw doping scandal surprised me.
I assumed (perhaps naively) that the Lion of Flanders did what he did, through sheer grit and determination and after he nearly lost his leg because of that bike accident and came back, I assumed he did so based on those qualities of toughness.

Festina naturally ranks up there with the stories which made a huge impact too.

Some more positive (excuse the pun) stories did register with me : the jens Voigt story of him riding tandem with a couple of his fans, who are blind, was great.
Jens is a popular rider with fellow riders and fans alike.

Any thoughts??

Click to expand...

On the positive side, Grewal taking Olympic gold was my introduction to competitive cycling. Also, Hampsten winning the Giro. A second American, being successful in a major tour, was teriffic!

On the negative side, You're right. Pantani's death was unbelievably depressing.

limerickman said:

Re-reading some back copies of various cycling publications, reminded me of the impact of certain stories in our sport.

Personally, I found the death of Pantani had a major impact on me.
Having been fortunate enough to see him ride the TDF in France and TDF here in my own country, his untimely death still defies belief.
When I read the news that February morning, I couldn't believe that he was dead.

The Museeuw doping scandal surprised me.
I assumed (perhaps naively) that the Lion of Flanders did what he did, through sheer grit and determination and after he nearly lost his leg because of that bike accident and came back, I assumed he did so based on those qualities of toughness.

Festina naturally ranks up there with the stories which made a huge impact too.

Some more positive (excuse the pun) stories did register with me : the jens Voigt story of him riding tandem with a couple of his fans, who are blind, was great.
Jens is a popular rider with fellow riders and fans alike.

Any thoughts??

Click to expand...

For someone with such a long history in cycling I am surprised that the only stories that had impact on you are very recent. I am also surprised a story about Voight riding with blind people is the only positive one.

I know this is recent news. Vino's poitive had an impact at the time. I really felt as if we were reaching the bottom of the slide. Everything seemed to be going wrong for cycling that day. Now I realize there is much more to come.

The two things that stick in my mind about Pantani are the day in the rain in the 1998 Tour when he dropped Ulrich, Julich and Co. and then I remember him sitting on the side of the road after crashing in the rain and slush during the 2004 Giro. Same type of day. Two very different images of a person.

limerickman said:

Re-reading some back copies of various cycling publications, reminded me of the impact of certain stories in our sport.

Personally, I found the death of Pantani had a major impact on me.
Having been fortunate enough to see him ride the TDF in France and TDF here in my own country, his untimely death still defies belief.
When I read the news that February morning, I couldn't believe that he was dead.

The Museeuw doping scandal surprised me.
I assumed (perhaps naively) that the Lion of Flanders did what he did, through sheer grit and determination and after he nearly lost his leg because of that bike accident and came back, I assumed he did so based on those qualities of toughness.

Festina naturally ranks up there with the stories which made a huge impact too.

Some more positive (excuse the pun) stories did register with me : the jens Voigt story of him riding tandem with a couple of his fans, who are blind, was great.
Jens is a popular rider with fellow riders and fans alike.

Any thoughts??

Click to expand...

I love Jens, like everyone. Just frustrated with his lying

I will go with Sandy Casar winning a stage in the Tour this year.

The guy's legs were shot, but he had the sniff to get into two breaks in the last 10 days, that were going away. The first one, I think he missed the crucial split, and he just had nothing left. The second, exactly the same, except he somehow managed to make the split, then took a flyer in the last 2 kms, was brought back, then won the sprint.

Says something about no blood boosting and no recovery drugs. The guy can ride some. He should be in the top 10 at the Tour on GC every year.

thunder said:

I love Jens, like everyone. Just frustrated with his lying

I will go with Sandy Casar winning a stage in the Tour this year.

The guy's legs were shot, but he had the sniff to get into two breaks in the last 10 days, that were going away. The first one, I think he missed the crucial split, and he just had nothing left. The second, exactly the same, except he somehow managed to make the split, then took a flyer in the last 2 kms, was brought back, then won the sprint.

Says something about no blood boosting and no recovery drugs. The guy can ride some. He should be in the top 10 at the Tour on GC every year.

Click to expand...

How do we know Casar isn't lying and/or blooddoping? He finished 6th in a GT last year, that's better than Voigt and Fränk Schleck have ever done.
FDJ also had D'Hont on the team last year, other than for doping why would you have him on the team?

thecyclist said:

How do we know Casar isn't lying and/or blooddoping? He finished 6th in a GT last year, that's better than Voigt and Fränk Schleck have ever done.
FDJ also had D'Hont on the team last year, other than for doping why would you have him on the team?

Click to expand...

I am convinced Casar is riding clean and a potential Tour winner in a clean field. Jens is a very nice guy but not a GC rider for Grand Tours, I mean... ok... Bjarne learned him to climb. Must have been the spirit of the winter training camp.

Richmond Roadie said:

On the positive side, Grewal taking Olympic gold was my introduction to competitive cycling. Also, Hampsten winning the Giro. A second American, being successful in a major tour, was teriffic!

On the negative side, You're right. Pantani's death was unbelievably depressing.

Click to expand...

1984 was a great year for me as the Olympic qualifications were held here in Milwaukee. I got to see him and Eric Heiden the speedskater who then tried road racing along with his sister Beth. If I remember right I think Beth qualified and rode with the team in LA.

Helen Carpenter-Phinney and Becky Twigg riding it to a tire between Gold and Silver that year was incredible. They where here in Milwaukee as the women did their quals the same weekend.

We had Super Week during that time as well and back then we had a lot of development teams for the European Pro Tour that participated. Probably my best two weeks for cycling that I have had. I was on my bike and was cruising in between all the best spots during the races along the Lakefront.

My disappointments...aside from Landis...this last le Tour. Hopefully nothing comes up that takes Contador out. Otherwise...all those riders leaving in disgrace...DiLuca not even competing. I want to see the best compete and get back to the days of watching something close to what Twigg and Carpenter showed me during the 84 Olympics.

thecyclist said:

How do we know Casar isn't lying and/or blooddoping? He finished 6th in a GT last year, that's better than Voigt and Fränk Schleck have ever done.
FDJ also had D'Hont on the team last year, other than for doping why would you have him on the team?

Click to expand...

6th, 26 minutes behind Basso.

TheCyclist, or ValvPiti, you ALWAYS raise this, and favour your Schlevk friends...

come on dude, see the light.

thunder said:

6th, 26 minutes behind Basso.

TheCyclist, or ValvPiti, you ALWAYS raise this, and favour your Schlevk friends...

come on dude, see the light.

Click to expand...

I didn't say he was close to winning, just that he finished 6th. He must have beaten a lot of blood dopers.

I just find it ridiculous how you keep defending your favorites saying they don't dope as much as other riders and claiming that the riders you don't like are trying to kill themselves.

thecyclist said:

I didn't say he was close to winning, just that he finished 6th. He must have beaten a lot of blood dopers.

I just find it ridiculous how you keep defending your favorites saying they don't dope as much as other riders and claiming that the riders you don't like are trying to kill themselves.

Click to expand...

good point you make.

I was a hypocrite.

Actually, I should excuse myself, I think I have some good mail. FDJ are pretty clean. Not CLEAN, but basically clean. Bouygues similar. No other teams can make that claim.

Are they my favourites. No.

I do, am, partial to Lovqvist, Mcgee, Wiggins, Casar, Hushovd, Gilbert, Voeckler, Pineu, because I think they ride on bread and water.

I would bet that one or more of them are not clean, I am not completely sold on those guys. But in relation to the entire peloton, I AM very confident those guys are clean. Is that a contradiction, no, just saying, cannot believe anyone, but if you are to believe, I think those guys are clean. All great young talents. All have palmares, one would think, below their standard.

Again, subjective. What is their "standard". How does one know their "standard" and to baseline said standard, and how do you know they have never doped, nor doped from the start, which was a function in their baseline.

Like Ullrich. Everone says Ullrich would have won the Tour 10 times if everyone was clean, and he was motivated.

But, HelmutRoole postures, (wisely) that doping can rectify one or even two physiological deficiences, that would not allow a pro to ride at the same level in a clean peloton. They would not be stars or win regularly without their dope, perhaps they may not even be pros, could not even be domestiques. I don't think Rasmussen is a great rider. I think there are many riders who have equivalent ability. I think Rasmussen is the greatest fraud ever, more so than Riis.

So, what was my point, I forgot now.

Anyway, you were correct, I acknowledge. But I do think there are a few clean riders. Not many. I think most talents will show themselves in the juniors, and it is suspicious if they come on and start to dominate when 27 or 28, when they never dominated espoir racing.

I do not think that theory is a blanket statement, as some riders are precocious and plateu at 22, some develop to an elite standard in their 20's.

Riders develop later in the last 2 decades, the professional era, because riders need more strength and more kms in their legs, because seasoned professionals race longer and harder, on comfortable salaries, than they did 2 decades ago.

So, I think winning the tour at 21, a few decades ago, is equivalent to what Contador did this year.

thecyclist said:

How do we know Casar isn't lying and/or blooddoping? He finished 6th in a GT last year, that's better than Voigt and Fränk Schleck have ever done.
FDJ also had D'Hont on the team last year, other than for doping why would you have him on the team?

Click to expand...

D'Hont, you are DEAD RIGHT, on that. Madiot should hang his head.

Also, Bouygues Telekom employed a Spanish doctor also.

But I don't see how you can determine Rasmussen, Riis and the Schleck brothers are bigger "frauds" than other riders, riders like Contador or Evans.

Contador wasn't very good before this year even though he rode on Saiz doping team. Then all of a sudden he explodes with Discovery.

Remember how Evans took off with Armstrong and Basso and dropped Ullrich (who caught them again), Rasmussen and Vinokourov on the last climb in the 2005 tour? I don't see any reason to believe he is cleaner than those riders.

I don't think there is any point in speculating or claiming to know who would be better in a clean peloton, because we have no way of knowing.

thecyclist said:

But I don't see how you can determine Rasmussen, Riis and the Schleck brothers are bigger "frauds" than other riders, riders like Contador or Evans.

Contador wasn't very good before this year even though he rode on Saiz doping team. Then all of a sudden he explodes with Discovery.

Remember how Evans took off with Armstrong and Basso and dropped Ullrich (who caught them again), Rasmussen and Vinokourov on the last climb in the 2005 tour? I don't see any reason to believe he is cleaner than those riders.

I don't think there is any point in speculating or claiming to know who would be better in a clean peloton, because we have no way of knowing.

Click to expand...

you make a cogent point.

Rasmussen is one of the worst cases, Armstrong was, and Bruylandts are. These guys have reputations.

But yes, one could say this is moot speculation.