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post #91 of 99

Re: American Uproar Over Jesus's Tomb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrera
As I said, I used to attend a church myself and was once involved in the evangelical denomination. That was before my change of attitude towards religious faith which, to summarize, means I didn't go on to exclude the possibility of God exisiting but no longer follow any organized religion.
Here is what I was taught as an evangelical. I don't know how close it is to Catholicism.
We were taught Christ died for our sins as a sacrifice so salvation came from believing Christ was the son of God, equal to the Father and Holy Spirit, i.e. the Trinity.
We were taught that only those who believed in the Gospel were saved.
We were taught that the Devil and Hell existed.
More worryingly we were taught eternal damnation and hell fire awaited us unless we accepted Christ was the son of God and died for our sins.
I sense the dispute between yourself and Rider means Rider's views seem to come closer to those of my old Church while your own views seem to be more "liberal" and less "rigid".
So what we seem to have is the very typical scenario of a case of one Christian who leaves scripture open to some flexibility and another Christian who's stricter with regard to the literal side.
Seeing as the discussion is interesting for those of us who are following it, I hope you two guys keep the discussion going while keeping it friendly (and keeping a sense of humour).
Besides, as I said, I haven't noticed any signs of extremism on the soapbox from the folks who are Christians.
Nope, what tends to get up my nose is some of the American posters on other websites who keep writing "Amen!" at the finish of their posts, declaring stuff like "blessed be God!", "Praise be!" and the list goes on. Yet the theme we're supposed to be discussing on those occasions has nothing to do with religion.
Fortunately Colorado Rider and Wolfix seem to refrain from this kind of activity which comes as a relief. I don't mind folks declaring they're Christians or Moslems or Orthodox Jews openly and I have no intention of ridiculing folk over their beliefs.
It's just all these "Amens", "Hallelujahs" and what have you on other sites strikes me as way way over the top.
I worry about this current wave of religious fervour in the U.S.A. lately. I suspect it's getting somewhat out of hand.

It's hard to quantify how or why one follows a faith or has a belief in God.
I suppose followers are presuaded to believe on a subjective and objective level.
What is certainly a factor, I think, is ones upbringing : if one is born in to a family who have a particular faith, then it is likely that one will be exposed to a particular set of beliefs.
That doesn't mean that one will remain in that faith throughout later life.

But as BD alluded too - I think faith, by it's nature, entails doubt.
It's hard to articulate what I mean by doubt.
When you see what appears to be an apparent injustice, doubt can arise.
I know I do doubt my faith at times - and I am sure others doubt their belief at times too.

There is the concept that faith is a gift from God as well.

The entire subject of faith/belief while very interesting, is extremely complex.

I do find the views of Atheists/Agnostics interesting - and reading about how they have arrived at their own conclusion about views.
post #92 of 99

Re: American Uproar Over Jesus's Tomb

Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman
It's hard to quantify how or why one follows a faith or has a belief in God.
I suppose followers are presuaded to believe on a subjective and objective level.
What is certainly a factor, I think, is ones upbringing : if one is born in to a family who have a particular faith, then it is likely that one will be exposed to a particular set of beliefs.
That doesn't mean that one will remain in that faith throughout later life.

But as BD alluded too - I think faith, by it's nature, entails doubt.
It's hard to articulate what I mean by doubt.
When you see what appears to be an apparent injustice, doubt can arise.
I know I do doubt my faith at times - and I am sure others doubt their belief at times too.
I understand exactly what you mean.
post #93 of 99

Re: American Uproar Over Jesus's Tomb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder
I understand exactly what you mean.
Well we agree on something CR !
post #94 of 99

Re: American Uproar Over Jesus's Tomb

Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman
Well we agree on something CR !
And they say miracles don't happen any more.
post #95 of 99

Re: American Uproar Over Jesus's Tomb

I think Carerra referred to the USA earlier : I'm reading a book called Colossus
by Prof.Niall Ferguson and a statistic he quotes is

% of population who attend weekly religious service (service being a religious service in any/all religions) : USA 47%, Europe 20%, Eastern Europe 14%

% of people who regard God as being important/very important : USA 83%,
Europe 49%, Eastern Europe 39%

% of people who do not think that God exists : USA 2%, Europe 18%, Eastern Europe 21%.

This was data collected in a Gallup poll.
post #96 of 99

Re: American Uproar Over Jesus's Tomb

Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman
I think Carerra referred to the USA earlier : I'm reading a book called Colossus
by Prof.Niall Ferguson and a statistic he quotes is

% of population who attend weekly religious service (service being a religious service in any/all religions) : USA 47%, Europe 20%, Eastern Europe 14%

% of people who regard God as being important/very important : USA 83%,
Europe 49%, Eastern Europe 39%

% of people who do not think that God exists : USA 2%, Europe 18%, Eastern Europe 21%.

This was data collected in a Gallup poll.
The US still retains much of its Puritan beginnings. We have some of the most outrageous movies, TV, literature, music. Yet we are outraged by these same things.
post #97 of 99
Thread Starter 

Re: American Uproar Over Jesus's Tomb

This was serialised, Lim. I saw some of it on T.V.
Without a doubt I've noticed a worrying tide of religious fervour within the U.S. lately. Thus far, I haven't witnessed too many folks ending their posts with exclamations of "Amen!" or "Praise be!" e.t.c. but I'm seeing this far more on other websites. It's always Americans who tend to be behind it.
I have no axe to grind against those folks who believe in God and Jesus but dislike it when it's carried over into non related topics online.


Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman
I think Carerra referred to the USA earlier : I'm reading a book called Colossus
by Prof.Niall Ferguson and a statistic he quotes is

% of population who attend weekly religious service (service being a religious service in any/all religions) : USA 47%, Europe 20%, Eastern Europe 14%

% of people who regard God as being important/very important : USA 83%,
Europe 49%, Eastern Europe 39%

% of people who do not think that God exists : USA 2%, Europe 18%, Eastern Europe 21%.

This was data collected in a Gallup poll.
post #98 of 99
Thread Starter 

Re: American Uproar Over Jesus's Tomb

This idea of a belief in God is tricky. My principal objection to organised religion is that whoever God may be, he's personified as a human being, whether he be Zeus, Yahweh, Allah or Jesus.
This seems to me to elevate human beings possibly above their actual scope. After all, if Dolphins were the dominant species today, to them God would be a dolphin too.
It seems to this idea of all bad things coming from the devil and all good things coming from God is a far too simplistic argument. There is no real acknowledgement that these bad things happen due to overpopulation (which leads to war), overloading of the eco system (which causes famine) or even abuse of the environment.
A lot of bad things happen because we don't live in harmony with Mother Nature and we have the audacity to consider other animals as unimportant or not having a good deal of importance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman
It's hard to quantify how or why one follows a faith or has a belief in God.
I suppose followers are presuaded to believe on a subjective and objective level.
What is certainly a factor, I think, is ones upbringing : if one is born in to a family who have a particular faith, then it is likely that one will be exposed to a particular set of beliefs.
That doesn't mean that one will remain in that faith throughout later life.

But as BD alluded too - I think faith, by it's nature, entails doubt.
It's hard to articulate what I mean by doubt.
When you see what appears to be an apparent injustice, doubt can arise.
I know I do doubt my faith at times - and I am sure others doubt their belief at times too.

There is the concept that faith is a gift from God as well.

The entire subject of faith/belief while very interesting, is extremely complex.

I do find the views of Atheists/Agnostics interesting - and reading about how they have arrived at their own conclusion about views.
post #99 of 99

Re: American Uproar Over Jesus's Tomb

Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman
% of population who attend weekly religious service (service being a religious service in any/all religions) : USA 47%, Europe 20%, Eastern Europe 14%
That does not quite give a good picture. A lot of urban environments are not very religious then you have vast stretches of rural or suburban areas in middle states that have 90+%. I happen to live in one of these places and it is weird. There literally is a church every two blocks, no exaggeration.
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