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Is America already a fundamentalist State? - Page 2

post #16 of 204
Thread Starter 

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

"From afar thought, it looks to me like Britain is in a much worse situation. Not with the religious whack jobs but with a seeming determination to bring about Orwell's vision of government monitoring of the populace. What the hell is going on over there?"

I agree with you. In fact, I agree wholeheartedly. Don't imagine I'm in any way unwilling to criticize the U.K. over a whole number of issues.
I think I've tackled this in the past before when I've posted as I'm totally against these identity cards they're trying to bring out over here. Likewise, I'm dead against these so-called faith schools Blair has been promoting.
As for Blair and his new Labour I think he's totally knackered the country.
At any rate, back to that documentary. Here is what I witnessed and here is why I was appalled:
The documentary focused on a family that limited their children to a so-called Biblical "education". The closest the syllabus got to evolution was a book entitled, "Discovering God's World". No doubt, the closest they got to zoology was Noah's Ark and if dinosaurs featured in history lessons, I'd be surprised.
During an interview, the lady in particular quoted chapter and verse about "sparing the rod and spoiling the child". That seemed to her like a great idea so the kids were literally thrashed by a switch on a regular basis should they fail to get up at 7.00 a.m. in the morning and do chores.
So, the question I asked myself was how in the name of common sense kids in that State weren't protected by the authorities and given their right to a decent, balanced, sensible education?
The mind boggles as to how those parents are allowed to effectively brainwash and program their own kids!
Please, folks, don't take this lightly. Believe me: The consequences of this kind of upbringing are downright dangerous.
Another documentary I saw showed a group of teenagers camping outside synagogues with placards that read, "God Hates Jews!" Other tracts were handed out with the slogans, "God Hates Fags!"
The journalist interviewed one particular blond girl who was handing out various leaflets and it turned out she'd been given a Biblical education all her life so the truth was she'd never really known anything else.
Need I mention the other "nutter" who runs a "paddles for parents" website.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro Deal
Obviously the U.S. is not run by the Christian taliban--yet. But the religious right has grown in political power over the last twenty-five years. The high point so far has been the election of Dubya. This has resulted in a backlash. It would be nice to see signs that the fundamentalist fervor is retreating but I fear that the Iraq debacle may end up just being a speed bump.

The real hardcore have built up a huge inferiority complex where they blame the damned liberals, the damned gays, the damned government, and other coastal types for trying to destroy their Christian and, in their mind, American way of life. We now have to deal with these Intelligent Design nutters. The situation has become very polarizing and the U.S. form of democracy is not designed to handle it because it is a winner take all system rather than a parliamentary democracy.

From afar thought, it looks to me like Britain is in a much worse situation. Not with the religious whack jobs but with a seeming determination to bring about Orwell's vision of government monitoring of the populace. What the hell is going on over there?
post #17 of 204
Thread Starter 

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

"It would be nice to see signs that the fundamentalist fervor is retreating but I fear that the Iraq debacle may end up just being a speed bump."

I don't think that wars based on lies and untruths ever prosper. I think it looks more and more as if the U.S. is going to suffer a catastrophic defeat in the Middle East as took place in Vietnam many years ago.
Essentially, I have sympathy for the U.S. marines who were hoodwinked into fighting the Iraq war as I think they basically believed the story they had been spoonfed - that 9/11 was a result of Iraq (simply untrue). Even so, I have no sympathy whatsoever for the current administration who started that war despite the warnings from France and the U.N.
The trouble is the consequences of defeat in the Iraq War could very well be dire. The big winner will be Iran since Bush removed the only real buffer to Iranian hegemony in the Gulf which was Iraq under Saddam.
So, this is what happens when religious zelots get a grip on governmental power and make political decisions.
To my mind, Arnold Schwarzennegger offers some hope for the Republicans but the snag is I'm not sure whether he will be able to compete without some sort of political stance based on Evangelical Fundamentalism. It seems that more and more often, the electorate leans towards some kind of evangelical zeal amongst politicians. Even Bill Clinton was forced to publically confess his sins on national television even if he didn't really believe it.
Personally, I think Americans need to think long and hard about this creeping evangelical influence into their society, the whole issue of so-called creatonist teachings, Biblical education and expansion of fundamentalism. If not, we're going to be seeing a lot more presidents similar to Bush, continually quoting God in their speeches, claiming God addresses them in the second person singular with calls for a divine mission such as the overthrow of Saddam or what have you.
The situation is worrying.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro Deal
Obviously the U.S. is not run by the Christian taliban--yet. But the religious right has grown in political power over the last twenty-five years. The high point so far has been the election of Dubya. This has resulted in a backlash. It would be nice to see signs that the fundamentalist fervor is retreating but I fear that the Iraq debacle may end up just being a speed bump.

The real hardcore have built up a huge inferiority complex where they blame the damned liberals, the damned gays, the damned government, and other coastal types for trying to destroy their Christian and, in their mind, American way of life. We now have to deal with these Intelligent Design nutters. The situation has become very polarizing and the U.S. form of democracy is not designed to handle it because it is a winner take all system rather than a parliamentary democracy.

From afar thought, it looks to me like Britain is in a much worse situation. Not with the religious whack jobs but with a seeming determination to bring about Orwell's vision of government monitoring of the populace. What the hell is going on over there?
post #18 of 204

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

The religious nutballs may actually have a point. It is true that water floridation is quite harmful to humans: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...69833566646476
post #19 of 204
Thread Starter 

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

Sadly, some residents over here wrote to the local rag, expressing the view that this strict family upbringing via the paddle must be a good thing as the kids featured didn't grow up as tearaways. They saw the documentary too.
They're mistaken, though. The secret to balanced, sociable adults has far more to do with family stability than paddlings or wackings.
One thing I noticed when I lived in Spain was how polite the northern Spanish were. I taught students there and they were essentially polite and respectful. This was a result of the strong sense of a family in Spain. Rarely did I see signs of kids being beaten even though Spanish friends shared with me the Jesuits went in for that sort of thing in their Jesuit schools.
Nope, what I found was closely knit, stable families and, as a result, stable kids.
This is far removed from brainwashing and indoctrination.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm
The religious nutballs may actually have a point. It is true that water floridation is quite harmful to humans: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...69833566646476
post #20 of 204

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm
The religious nutballs may actually have a point. It is true that water floridation is quite harmful to humans: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...69833566646476
I thought the objection to floridation was that it's an insidious plot by the Ruskies.
post #21 of 204
Thread Starter 

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

Comments are pouring in over the said documentary. These folks were equally shocked by the documentary. Here are some comments:

"I think that hitting a child is a cowards way to teach your child the difference between right and wrong. I think it would ultimately lose you the respect of your child and teach them that physical violence is acceptable. I was horrified when i could hear the little boy crying whilst his mother was attacking him with the leather strap ( weapon ). It was not only painful but humiliating for him, and what was the crime!!!!!??? A fib. And a childish one at that! Completely disgusting. I am glad that someone replied and said that not all Christians beleive in this 'corporal' punishment as i would have maybe gone with the belief that all Christians thought this way, this was what i picked up from the programme. I was also saddened by the remark that one of the older girls made. She said she would be totally devastated if there was a ban put on hitting children!!!!
Yet again religion is at the heart of truly destructive behaviour."



"Where will it end?

I ask all parents to allow their children true freedom of choice by offering them an understanding of all there options. Whether biblical or scientific and thus allow them to decide for themselves whether they are indeed Christian or not! Or any other faith for that matter.

I for one see no benefit whatsoever in my children being ruled by the fear of an object or worse still, their own parents. Even more unbelievable, is the the incredible naivety with which "religious" parents impart a GOD on their children that rules purely through fear, guilt that ultimately results in an incredible lack of self confidence and awareness.

Granted, it may be written (bible), but by who and when and why and what evidence do we have for such unquestioned dedication to something that has historically been so destructive??

We have more evidence for evolution, but most of us avoid the subject through shear fear and guilt, which was possibly imparted in the same way most of us impart it on our own children....."
post #22 of 204

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro Deal
I thought the objection to floridation was that it's an insidious plot by the Ruskies.
Not sure if I agree with the Dr.'s conclusions as to why the US gov't has promoted floridation, but the evidence is there that it is very harmful.
post #23 of 204
Thread Starter 

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

Carrera's off to work now after having completed a weeks worth of ranting in one day.
I won't have time to post again for a few days so will leave you guys to take charge of the thread if it's worth continuing.
I must say the documentary caused a huge backlash over here. I've just been on Yahoo and there seems to be virtual outrage being expressed by the Hidden Lives Documentary shown on channel 5.
So, for the next few days, no posts on Madonna, Muhammad Ali e.t.c. and added to that, this rider is going to buy a new roadbike. It will replace the one that was stolen.
post #24 of 204

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

Maybe Madonna will design a new carbon frame. The "material carbon girl frame".
post #25 of 204

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

I've posted a link previously in this forum to the World Health Organisation Report on children's dental health.I can't be bothered looking for it again.
British kids...even the poorest...have access to dentists,at no direct cost. As a result, they enjoy much better dental health than American children, who only get access to dentists if their parents' medical insurance (providing they can afford that insurance) covers the cost. The huge quantity of sugar in the average American kid's diet (the highest in the world) doesn't do much for their teeth...except rot them.

Feel free to try to disprove that fact.
And don't believe your own myths.
post #26 of 204

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebaby
As a result, they enjoy much better dental health than American children, who only get access to dentists if their parents' medical insurance (providing they can afford that insurance) covers the cost.

Feel free to try to disprove that fact.
You don't need to have insurance to go to a dentist, and may well spend much less money paying directly for their services.

I spend about US $160/year at the dentist for a bi-annual check-up and cleaning, while dental insurance would cost me about $350/year.

"Fact" disproved.
post #27 of 204

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

http://www.whocollab.od.mah.se/countriesalphab.html
Global Oral Health - CAPP
The "DMFT" figures are the number of "Decayed,missing and filled teeth". The lower the number...the better the oral health.
As you can see, the USA has more than double the DMFT mean that the UK has,.i.e. British children have much better dental health than American children.

Your personal circumstances are irrelevant. Posting them says a lot about your intelligence though. Should we extrapolate that to condemn everyone in the USA as stupid?
post #28 of 204

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebaby
Global Oral Health - CAPP
The "DMFT" figures are the number of "Decayed,missing and filled teeth". The lower the number...the better the oral health.
The report compares 11 year olds from the UK to 12-15 year olds from the USA, so it's already weighted to favor the UK as every nation's DMFT increases with age. Look up the numbers for adults and senior citizens, then be sure to post that link too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebaby
Your personal circumstances are irrelevant. Posting them says a lot about your intelligence though. Should we extrapolate that to condemn everyone in the USA as stupid?
My "personal circumstances" apply directly to your quote regarding dental health insurance in the USA. Many of my family, friends, and colleagues do not have dental insurance because it costs more than simply caring for your own teeth through good dental hygiene and periodic dentist cleanings.

The grossly sarcastic post by fscyclist seems to have struck a personal chord with you. I hope it is readily apparent by all who read it that it was not to be taken seriously, but feel free to post more reports and graphs if that suits your fancy. I believe the post was meant to show Carrera just how silly his original post portrayed "fundamentalist" America.
post #29 of 204

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

Egypt (12-15 years) 1.18 DMFT
USA (12-15 years) 1.75 DMFT

Ethiopia (12-18 years)1.55 DMFT
Compare Ethiopia to the USA. If the DMFT figure increases with age in every nation then the figure is weighted in favour of the USA...and Ethiopians still have better teeth than Americans.

People who live in glass houses..... (big smiley Australian teeth!)

Hmmm...maybe the USA needs some SOCIALIZED medical care?
post #30 of 204

Re: Is America already a fundamentalist State?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebaby
As you can see, the USA has more than double the DMFT mean that the UK has,.i.e. British children have much better dental health than American children.
then how do they get all jacked up when they get older?
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