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Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

post #1 of 96
Thread Starter 
My favorite tdf winner is the Big Mig. The fact that he was big (170
lbs), that he used clinchers, he was an averaged sized guy, using regular
stuff, not superlight crap, always made him my favorite. Dope free also,
makes him one of the few legitimate winners. Also, his exit was dignified,
and he always seemed less arrogant than the other riders who have come on
gone since. I don't think there are any Indurain haters even out there.
Wouldn't it be nice, if those kind of riders were again invited back into
the peloton.
post #2 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

Callistus Valerius wrote:
> Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.


Dumbass,

Salbutamol, 1994.

Bob Schwartz
post #3 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Callistus Valerius wrote:
>> Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.

>
> Dumbass,
>
> Salbutamol, 1994.

In which year Riis admits he was using Epo
post #4 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

Dan Gregory wrote:
> Bob Schwartz wrote:
>> Callistus Valerius wrote:
>>> Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.

>>
>> Dumbass,
>>
>> Salbutamol, 1994.

> In which year Riis admits he was using Epo


Gewiss made a ton of progress that year. Just like Telekom would
in following years.

In 1994 I don't believe EPO was a banned substance yet. I'm not
sure when that came, 1996?

Bob Schwartz
post #5 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

On May 25, 7:15 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> Callistus Valerius wrote:
> > Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.

>
> Dumbass,
>
> Salbutamol, 1994.
>
> Bob Schwartz
post #6 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
> naive but it is how I want to remember him.


Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY ****
BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
head's going to explode...........

Seriously, this is one goddamn mess because if anyone deserves to get
busted it was coke head Pantani.

CH
post #7 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "excel_sports@hotmail.com"
<excel_sports@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
>> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
>> naive but it is how I want to remember him.

>
>Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
>'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
>was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
>well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY ****
>BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
>that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
>head's going to explode...........


This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they take
out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be clean?

Dope or not Indurain was great.

>Seriously, this is one goddamn mess because if anyone deserves to get
>busted it was coke head Pantani.


As I recall he was busted and by a greater authority than cycling can invoke.

Ron
post #8 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

On May 25, 1:58 pm, "B. Lafferty" <blaffer...@verizon.nospam.net>
wrote:
> "RonSonic" <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:i85e53dup9u63f4k9ub20f83vb5g7qjurq@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "excel_spo...@hotmail.com"
> > <excel_spo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> >>> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
> >>> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
> >>> naive but it is how I want to remember him.

>
> >>Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
> >>'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
> >>was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
> >>well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY ****
> >>BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
> >>that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
> >>head's going to explode...........

>
> > This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they
> > take
> > out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be
> > clean?

>
> I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the
> Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.


Who can we say was really clean? Eki? Probably. Julich? likely,
too. Hamilton? I think only he and his only mentor still believe.
post #9 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

On May 25, 12:58 pm, "B. Lafferty" wrote:

> I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the
> Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.


I saw Mottet cry on the podium at Worlds in Co. (the story being that
he raced clean and Argentin... maybe didn't?)

All well and good as long as there is no possibility that any food
(water, drinks, whatever) or pills or injections had any trace of
forbidden substances in them.

The obvious question is, how does an athlete know he is "clean"?

The "athlete is totally responsible" clause was another low blow in
the War on People.

========

OK, the dam has burst. Mr. 60% (he who gained weight and turned orange
during the TdF, in addition to winning the thing) has admitted using
EPO and other.

All charges, sanctions for positives, whatever and whoever, are
immediately dropped, for everyone.

Just a drop in the bucket, but that would be at least a sign of an
admission from the Power that they are fundamentally responsible for
the mess-- by making bad rules they could not fairly enforce through
simple testing, which situation caused widespread "cheating".

After all, if you know the guy or team next to you can cop an unfair
advantage with little-to-no fear of being detected, what are your
options?

Remember "Lead us not into temptation"? Makes me wonder if any of
these holy rollin' dope cops ever read the Good Book.

At some point, the world of sport needs to grasp the concept of an
"unsolveable problem", and find a way to play fair. --D-y
post #10 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

"Bob Schwartz" <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ZCD5i.3990$C96.1592@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
> Dan Gregory wrote:
>> Bob Schwartz wrote:
>>> Callistus Valerius wrote:
>>>> Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.
>>>
>>> Dumbass,
>>>
>>> Salbutamol, 1994.

>> In which year Riis admits he was using Epo

>
> Gewiss made a ton of progress that year. Just like Telekom would
> in following years.
>
> In 1994 I don't believe EPO was a banned substance yet. I'm not
> sure when that came, 1996?



No, 1990

Benjo
post #11 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

On Fri, 25 May 2007 20:30:47 +0200, "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr> wrote:

>New rule, proposed long ago - you did nothing wrong? Cast the first stone.
>[notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first.


OK, so I did a few things wrong. OTOH, I find as I grow older, I have
better reasons for doing what I did when I was young.

With a little bit of luck and a couple more 7-CD set self-realization
courses from California, I will be fully justified by the time I die.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
post #12 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

On May 25, 7:30 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:

>
> New rule, proposed long ago - you did nothing wrong? Cast the first stone.
> [notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first.


Apply this straightforward rule and you get...a code of silence.
Especially when you have a group of people who need to stick together
to survive, even if they are competitors. It happens in all kinds of
relationships and comes down to normal human behaviour.

There is no easy solution to cheating in a system like professional
sport. Some athletes are always going to cheat. Either you allow
athletes to take whatever they want and sign a death disclaimer (this
penalises the athletes who want to race clean) and concentrate on
policing the rules on the road, or you have a 100 percent bulletproof
system that detects all doping, all the time.

The latter is practically impossible, while the former would annoy a
few people and lead to some deaths. It's not particularly nice.

In the good ol' days, the media had more respect for the omerta and
helped keep a lid on affairs. But it's changed, with cycling being one
of the first targets. I wonder if there's enough money and power to
keep things quiet about some of the bigger sports like football and
tennis?

I remember reading about Telekom's doping program about 10 years ago.
Riis has been pestered by journalists since then, because funnily
enough, they knew about it too. Finding out this sort of information
and getting it out there comes with the territory. It's now at the
stage where reporting on an actual race should be an attention-
grabbing headline, because it doesn't happen that often.

Jeff
post #13 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

benjo maso wrote:
> "Bob Schwartz" <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:ZCD5i.3990$C96.1592@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>> Dan Gregory wrote:
>>> Bob Schwartz wrote:
>>>> Callistus Valerius wrote:
>>>>> Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.
>>>> Dumbass,
>>>>
>>>> Salbutamol, 1994.
>>> In which year Riis admits he was using Epo

>> Gewiss made a ton of progress that year. Just like Telekom would
>> in following years.
>>
>> In 1994 I don't believe EPO was a banned substance yet. I'm not
>> sure when that came, 1996?

>
>
> No, 1990
>
> Benjo


Are you sure?

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons Planckaert was willing to admit
to winning the 1990 Paris-Roubaix while on EPO was that at the
time it was OK.

Bob Schwartz
post #14 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

"Bob Schwartz" <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:71K5i.4102$y_7.3976@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> benjo maso wrote:
>> "Bob Schwartz" <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:ZCD5i.3990$C96.1592@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>>> Dan Gregory wrote:
>>>> Bob Schwartz wrote:
>>>>> Callistus Valerius wrote:
>>>>>> Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.
>>>>> Dumbass,
>>>>>
>>>>> Salbutamol, 1994.
>>>> In which year Riis admits he was using Epo
>>> Gewiss made a ton of progress that year. Just like Telekom would
>>> in following years.
>>>
>>> In 1994 I don't believe EPO was a banned substance yet. I'm not
>>> sure when that came, 1996?

>>
>>
>> No, 1990
>>
>> Benjo

>
> Are you sure?
>
> I'm pretty sure one of the reasons Planckaert was willing to admit
> to winning the 1990 Paris-Roubaix while on EPO was that at the
> time it was OK.



Yes, I'm sure. And Eddy Planckaert said that he used Epo only in the last
year of his career, i.e. 1991.

Benjo
post #15 of 96

Re: Big Mig - honest, dishonest?

In article <46572b58$0$9181$426a74cc@news.free.fr>,
"Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr> wrote:

> Dans le message de news:VsF5i.18$eO5.14@trndny08,
> B. Lafferty <blafferty1@verizon.nospam.net> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> > "RonSonic" <ronsonic@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:i85e53dup9u63f4k9ub20f83vb5g7qjurq@4ax.com...
> >> On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "excel_sports@hotmail.com"
> >> <excel_sports@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
> >>>> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this
> >>>> is naive but it is how I want to remember him.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
> >>> 'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
> >>> was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
> >>> well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY
> >>> **** BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the
> >>> scandal that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh
> >>> my god my head's going to explode...........
> >>
> >> This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If
> >> they take
> >> out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know
> >> to be clean?

> >
> > I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold
> > or the Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.

>
> New rule, proposed long ago - you did nothing wrong? Cast the first stone.
> [notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first.


Thanks for the chance to talk about misquotations. No,
you have not misquoted. Following is a quote that is
almost always misquoted.

Matthew 7:2
For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged:
and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to
you again.

--
Michael Press
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