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post #16 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per SMS:


>> industries that promote an unhealthy lifestyle in terms of diet and

>
> Anybody else see Charlie Rose's show on the obesity epidemic a
> few nights ago?


SMS blames the Republicans for that, too! LOL (Thanks for snipping his
innane claim.)
post #17 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

On Jun 30, 10:44 am, Bill Sornson wrote:
> ...
> Bill "calling MM a documentarian is like calling Hugo Chavez a progressive
> leader" S.


Does Sornson even know what the word progressive means in this
context?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
post #18 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

On Jun 30, 2:37 pm, "G.T." aka Greg Thomas wrote:
> Ride-A-Lot wrote:
> > Bill Sornson wrote:
> >> Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:

>
> >> {Illegal Spam Snipped}

>
> >> Why on earth would I want to watch "Plump's Fiction"? LOL

>
> > Finally, a sane comment about that communist asshole. It's scary to
> > think that people actually believe what he says without looking at the
> > history books. The you get the media and people like Howard Stern
> > praising his every word. I am thinking about ditching the sirius now.

>
> > Michael Moore is the next Mao Tse Tung, only I don't think they make one
> > of those gray peoples uniforms in his size.

>
> I, for one, would rather have someone stirring the pot now rather than
> after we've sunk to being a third-world country where a handful of
> people have power and the rest of us have nothing. And that's exactly
> where I think we're heading. We're going to be slaves of China in
> another decade because they hold so much of our debt and there's only
> going to be a few people in the USA who are going to be able to
> financially take advantage of that.


Wait until the Chinese figure out that once all the good blue collar
jobs have been moved from the US, the overpaid management jobs can
also be outsourced - replace a $20,000,000/year US CEO with a Chinese
CEO at 1/100 of the cost.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
post #19 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 30, 10:44 am, Bill Sornson wrote:
>> ...
>> Bill "calling MM a documentarian is like calling Hugo Chavez a
>> progressive leader" S.

>
> Does Sornson even know what the word progressive means in this
> context?


Since Mr. Sherman doesn't seem capable of asking a direct question, guess
he'll never know! LOL
post #20 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

On Jun 30, 4:51 pm, Andrew Muzi wrote:
> >> Bill Sornson wrote:
> >>> Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:
> >>> {Illegal Spam Snipped}
> >>> Why on earth would I want to watch "Plump's Fiction"? LOL

> > Ride-A-Lot wrote:
> >> Finally, a sane comment about that communist asshole. It's scary to
> >> think that people actually believe what he says without looking at the
> >> history books. The you get the media and people like Howard Stern
> >> praising his every word. I am thinking about ditching the sirius now.
> >> Michael Moore is the next Mao Tse Tung, only I don't think they make
> >> one of those gray peoples uniforms in his size.

> G.T. wrote:
> > I, for one, would rather have someone stirring the pot now rather than
> > after we've sunk to being a third-world country where a handful of
> > people have power and the rest of us have nothing. And that's exactly
> > where I think we're heading. We're going to be slaves of China in
> > another decade because they hold so much of our debt and there's only
> > going to be a few people in the USA who are going to be able to
> > financially take advantage of that.

>
> Slaves? Hardly. USA has steadily increasing average income and assets
> per household. Plus, a huge and growing number of millionaires the
> overwhelming bulk of whom are first-generation, i.e., self-made. Our
> labor mobility is higher than anywhere ever in history and that's a true
> resource.


Average income is misleading. What is the average weight of one
gorilla and 100 marmosets? The huge increases in wages for relatively
few compensate for the general decline for most when the average is
calculated.

The rising cost of college tuition, and the falling wages for jobs
other than those that assist the already rich in becoming richer,
means a lower quality of life for most based on the pure material
basis that US economists and pundits love so much, not to mention the
less quantifiable but more important considerations.

> p.s. ours is not a 'class' system. When you hear negativity and envy
> about 'the rich', look at their dissolute ineffective progeny - whatever
> it us , it doesn't 'stick'. Which all works out just fine.


Really? The rich put the real money in trust funds so the progeny can
not waste it.

We live in a society where being related to and knowing the right
people is much more important for success than hard work and ability.
Working hard and doing one's work well is rewarded by being assigned
more work.

P.S. DON'T even consider getting to sick to work if you live in the US
and are not independently wealthy or have someone to support you - it
will make your life a living hell for years to come [1].

[1] Been there, done that.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
post #21 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

On Jun 30, 11:19 pm, Bill Sornson wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> > On Jun 30, 10:44 am, Bill Sornson wrote:
> >> ...
> >> Bill "calling MM a documentarian is like calling Hugo Chavez a
> >> progressive leader" S.

>
> > Does Sornson even know what the word progressive means in this
> > context?

>
> Since Mr. Sherman doesn't seem capable of asking a direct question, guess
> he'll never know! LOL


Nice way to duck the question, Sornson.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
post #22 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

On Jun 30, 4:51 pm, Andrew Muzi wrote:
> >> Bill Sornson wrote:
> >>> Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:
> >>> {Illegal Spam Snipped}
> >>> Why on earth would I want to watch "Plump's Fiction"? LOL

> > Ride-A-Lot wrote:
> >> Finally, a sane comment about that communist asshole. It's scary to
> >> think that people actually believe what he says without looking at the
> >> history books. The you get the media and people like Howard Stern
> >> praising his every word. I am thinking about ditching the sirius now.
> >> Michael Moore is the next Mao Tse Tung, only I don't think they make
> >> one of those gray peoples uniforms in his size.

> G.T. wrote:
> > I, for one, would rather have someone stirring the pot now rather than
> > after we've sunk to being a third-world country where a handful of
> > people have power and the rest of us have nothing. And that's exactly
> > where I think we're heading. We're going to be slaves of China in
> > another decade because they hold so much of our debt and there's only
> > going to be a few people in the USA who are going to be able to
> > financially take advantage of that.

>
> Slaves? Hardly. USA has steadily increasing average income and assets
> per household. Plus, a huge and growing number of millionaires the
> overwhelming bulk of whom are first-generation, i.e., self-made. Our
> labor mobility is higher than anywhere ever in history and that's a true
> resource.


Average income is misleading. What is the average weight of one
gorilla and 100 marmosets? The huge increases in wages for relatively
few compensate for the general decline for most when the average is
calculated.

The rising cost of college tuition, and the falling wages for jobs
other than those that assist the already rich in becoming richer,
means a lower quality of life for most based on the pure material
basis that US economists and pundits love so much, not to mention the
less quantifiable but more important considerations.

> p.s. ours is not a 'class' system. When you hear negativity and envy
> about 'the rich', look at their dissolute ineffective progeny - whatever
> it us , it doesn't 'stick'. Which all works out just fine.


Really? The rich put the real money in trust funds so the progeny can
not waste it.

We live in a society where being related to and knowing the right
people is much more important for success than hard work and ability.
Working hard and doing one's work well is rewarded by being assigned
more work.

P.S. DON'T even consider getting to sick to work if you live in the US
and are not independently wealthy or have someone to support you - it
will make your life a living hell for years to come [1].

[1] Been there, done that.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
post #23 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 30, 11:19 pm, Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>>> On Jun 30, 10:44 am, Bill Sornson wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> Bill "calling MM a documentarian is like calling Hugo Chavez a
>>>> progressive leader" S.

>>
>>> Does Sornson even know what the word progressive means in this
>>> context?

>>
>> Since Mr. Sherman doesn't seem capable of asking a direct question,
>> guess he'll never know! LOL

>
> Nice way to duck the question, Sornson.


ROTFL
post #24 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4686e48f$0$27246$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

> While most of what Moore says in Sicko is accurate, there are some things
> where he should have been more careful. The high infant mortality rate in
> the U.S. is partially due to the fact that more high-risk pregnancies are
> brought to term than in other countries, though the poor neo-natal care is
> certainly a contributing factor.


Poor neo-natal care? You gotta be kidding me. The U.S. has to have one
of the best, if not the best, neo-natal care in the world. No where in the
entire world does an infant have the opportunity to survive than he/she does
in the U.S.

> The lower life expectancy is partially due to the health care system, but
> is also due to the Republicans and their promotion of subsidies for
> industries that promote an unhealthy lifestyle in terms of diet and
> exercise.


Really? How about individual responsibility? So, industries are
responsible for
the poor health of people in this country? And, the Republicans support
industries that promote this lifestyle? Yeah, right. Last time I checked,
the
Democrats weren't backing away from supporting these industries either.

I eat right and exercise because I need to eat right and exercise - not
because
the government or some industry is telling me I need to. On the other hand,
if
you need to be spoon fed how you should live your life I guess you've
already
given the right to these entities to do so. That's sad.

Take care of yourself and don't blame others for why you are fat and are
having
health problems. It is often stated that the U.S. is the fattest nation on
the planet.
I don't disagree but it is because of the lifestyle choices that these
people have
made. Take a look at the people on this forum. Each and every one of them,
with the exception of Mike Vandeman, is actively living the lifestyle they
choose,
which just happens to be one filled with proper eating and abundant exercise
(mountain biking and other forms of biking).

Maybe we're just rebels. I don't know but to blame industry or the
Republicans
for our health problems is giving them rights they should not and do not
possess -
not in my life and not in the lives of the people on this forum.

Oz
post #25 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
news:timmcn-143032.09312901072007@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <nEMhi.5241$vi5.3744@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>,
> "Oz" <re_osborn@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4686e48f$0$27246$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>
>> > While most of what Moore says in Sicko is accurate, there are some
>> > things where he should have been more careful. The high infant
>> > mortality rate in the U.S. is partially due to the fact that more
>> > high-risk pregnancies are brought to term than in other countries,
>> > though the poor neo-natal care is certainly a contributing factor.

>>
>> Poor neo-natal care? You gotta be kidding me. The U.S. has to have
>> one of the best, if not the best, neo-natal care in the world. No
>> where in the entire world does an infant have the opportunity to
>> survive than he/she does in the U.S.

>
> "The US has to have" just isn't true. Infant mortality rates in the US
> are not that low- many countries have lower rates than the US.
> Countries with lower infant mortality rates include Australia, Austria,
> Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland,
> Italy, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden,
> Switzerland and the United Kingdom. There are, of course, many
> countries with much higher infant mortality rates- typically in Central
> and South America, Africa and the Middle East.


The OP stated that the US has a high infant mortality rate. He was speaking
out
of his ass.

>> > The lower life expectancy is partially due to the health care
>> > system, but is also due to the Republicans and their promotion of
>> > subsidies for industries that promote an unhealthy lifestyle in
>> > terms of diet and exercise.

>
> At least 18 countries have a higher life expectancy than the US, too.


Must be the fault of the Republicans. Right? That was one of his points.

>> Really? How about individual responsibility? So, industries are
>> responsible for the poor health of people in this country? And, the
>> Republicans support industries that promote this lifestyle? Yeah,
>> right. Last time I checked, the Democrats weren't backing away from
>> supporting these industries either.

>
> Industries are indeed responsible- to an extent- for American health
> problems. There are a number of ways in which this is true: air and
> water pollution, food contamination with bacteria and other
> contaminants, saturation marketing of foods with trans-fats because they
> are cheap and shelf-stable, etc. Those are direct contributions. There
> are indirect contributions too, such as a huge emphasis on marketing
> products that are "sedentary friendly" to children.


Again, the OP of this portion of the thread referred to lifestyles.
Pollution
does not make up a lifestyle choice. Again, choice. You can choose to
eat every one of your meals at McDonald's which is as expensive, if not
more, than making healthy choices by buying better foods at super markets
and cooking them yourself. Again, choice. So, You're telling me that I
have
compelling recourse to blame the government and industry if I end up
weighing
400 pounds? Give me a friggin' break.

>> I eat right and exercise because I need to eat right and exercise -
>> not because the government or some industry is telling me I need to.
>> On the other hand, if you need to be spoon fed how you should live
>> your life I guess you've already given the right to these entities to
>> do so. That's sad.

>
> Most people- as pointed out by Thoreau in _Walden_ all those years ago-
> don't realize there is an option.


BS. Copout.

>> Take care of yourself and don't blame others for why you are fat and
>> are having health problems. It is often stated that the U.S. is the
>> fattest nation on the planet. I don't disagree but it is because of
>> the lifestyle choices that these people have made. Take a look at
>> the people on this forum. Each and every one of them, with the
>> exception of Mike Vandeman, is actively living the lifestyle they
>> choose, which just happens to be one filled with proper eating and
>> abundant exercise (mountain biking and other forms of biking).

>
> Which is good for us, but "we" are a minority. As a society, we have
> designed our cities to discourage a healthy lifestyle. Social
> engineering for profit surrounds us at every turn.


You sound like a socialist. I believe in individual responsibility.

>> Maybe we're just rebels. I don't know but to blame industry or the
>> Republicans for our health problems is giving them rights they should
>> not and do not possess - not in my life and not in the lives of the
>> people on this forum.

>
> I have opted out of much of "the American way" and live a better life
> for it <snipped list of lifestyle choices because they sounded
> insufferably smug>.


So, basically, you're saying that you're smarter than the average American
because you were able to figure a better lifestyle. You're saying that the
average American is too stupid to figure out that they are just a cog in the
grand system and that they have no choice but to just follow along. Sorry
but I have to give people more credit than that.
post #26 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:31:29 -0500, Tim McNamara
<timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:

>I have opted out of much of "the American way" and live a better life
>for it <snipped list of lifestyle choices because they sounded
>insufferably smug>.


I opt to live healthy too - but despite his offensiveness and obvious
partisan nature, Mr. Moore raises a valid point. Healthcare is broken
in the USA. The "insurance companies" are a needless middleman sucking
up profit and regulating care with no benefits to the end consumer.
The medical profession/association aren't helping. The Congress &
Administration is in the pocket of the health and drug industries.

Anyone who doesn't believe that has never:
- purchased health insurance for their employees and seen the bill
- or purchased health insurance independently and seen the bill
- or had major surgery and seen the bill

The health system in the USA is seriously broken.
post #27 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

"still me" <wheeledBob@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:jfif83tubruh03tcludoustkiets770hkr@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:31:29 -0500, Tim McNamara
> <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
>>I have opted out of much of "the American way" and live a better life
>>for it <snipped list of lifestyle choices because they sounded
>>insufferably smug>.

>
> I opt to live healthy too - but despite his offensiveness and obvious
> partisan nature, Mr. Moore raises a valid point. Healthcare is broken
> in the USA. The "insurance companies" are a needless middleman sucking
> up profit and regulating care with no benefits to the end consumer.
> The medical profession/association aren't helping. The Congress &
> Administration is in the pocket of the health and drug industries.


I don't know if I would go so far as to say that. I may be an exception
to the *rule* but I never have a problem getting the healthcare services
I need. Admittedly, I am low maintenance (not bragging by any means
- I just don't go to the doctor very often) but it seems to me that most
everyone I know is comfortable with the healthcare services they receive
and don't compain about the cost. Again, this is a small segment of the
overall population but that is my experience.

I am humored though to hear people complain about how much healthcare
in the United States sucks when people from the Great White North (aka
Canada) flock to the great US of A to get procedures that they can't get
there.
I would say that Canada's healthcare system in in need of repair.

Instead of saying that healthcare is broken here, I would say that some
portions
of the "system" need to be fixed. And; for puposes of general information,
Republicans and Democrats, alike, are in the back pockets of the
insurance industry. It's called lobbying and NO ONE in Washington is
exempt from this truth.

> Anyone who doesn't believe that has never:
> - purchased health insurance for their employees and seen the bill
> - or purchased health insurance independently and seen the bill
> - or had major surgery and seen the bill
>
> The health system in the USA is seriously broken.


I don't have any experience with being an employer and buying insurance
for my eployees or buying it myself but I do have experience paying for
insurance for my family and the costs keep going up while the benfits are
reduced. Thank goodness my family is healthy and we really do not use
what we have. Insurance, for the most part, is a perk that companies offer
that they have no obligation to offer. Therefore, most companies are
providing a services to their employees that they don't *have to*.
post #28 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

"still me" <wheeledBob@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> The health system in the USA is seriously broken.


I'll tell what I think is seriously broken - the auto insurance industry. I
can at least justify spending thousands of dollars each year on health
insurance but auto insurance? I haven't had an accident or a ticket in
years but I don't get a break on that. That affects people just as much as
heath insurance, especially since auto insurance companies are now using
credit ratings to set policy prices and a lot of lower income folks have
poor credit ratings.

Oz
post #29 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4686e55c$0$27246$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> G.T. wrote:
>> Ride-A-Lot wrote:
>>> Bill Sornson wrote:
>>>> Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> {Illegal Spam Snipped}
>>>>
>>>> Why on earth would I want to watch "Plump's Fiction"? LOL
>>>>
>>>
>>> Finally, a sane comment about that communist asshole. It's scary to
>>> think that people actually believe what he says without looking at the
>>> history books. The you get the media and people like Howard Stern
>>> praising his every word. I am thinking about ditching the sirius now.
>>>
>>> Michael Moore is the next Mao Tse Tung, only I don't think they make one
>>> of those gray peoples uniforms in his size.
>>>

>>
>> I, for one, would rather have someone stirring the pot now rather than
>> after we've sunk to being a third-world country where a handful of people
>> have power and the rest of us have nothing. And that's exactly where I
>> think we're heading. We're going to be slaves of China in another decade
>> because they hold so much of our debt and there's only going to be a few
>> people in the USA who are going to be able to financially take advantage
>> of that.

>
> We'll be very similar to Argentina, a once wealthy nation whose leaders
> squandered and stole the nations wealth, decimating the middle class.


That's precisely where we're heading.
--
Ticketbastard tax tracker:
http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html

Dethink to survive - Mclusky

Greg
post #30 of 131

Re: Download Michael Moores Sicko

On Jul 1, 12:47 pm, Andrew Muzi wrote:
> > On Jun 30, 10:44 am, Bill Sornson wrote:
> >> ...
> >> Bill "calling MM a documentarian is like calling Hugo Chavez a progressive
> >> leader" S.

> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> > Does Sornson even know what the word progressive means in this
> > context?

>
> I thought it meant stealing from the productive and giving to the
> indolent. There's another definition?


And conservative means stealing from labor that actually creates
wealth, and gives it to capital which was typically earned by means
other than labor.

Of course Chavez is terrible for giving money back from petroleum
extraction back to the people of Venezuela, instead of foreign oil
corporations and a few wealthy elites who obtained their power by non-
democratic (and otherwise immoral) means.

Has there even been a fascist government the US did not like, as long
as the leaders of that government did not challenge the supremacy of
US based corporations?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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