Improving vo2+LT = overtraining?



Yellowcat2354

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Sep 23, 2011
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Hi everyone I have a few questions concerning training (here's a bit about me) I used to ride national juniors and was ranked 4th, could have won nationals but I entered a criterium the day before and melted my legs racing pro mens, lesson learnt I used to train with the road race national champ and whilst in hind sight the workload was way too much , never mind the intensity of 60 km a day avg of real hard riding, Sprints, attacks, chasing cars busses etc Any way now I am 22 and just got back on the bike after my service in the paras. Now having read every book you can buy nearly about training etc ii have a lot of thoughts but nothing I am willing to commit too, Edmund Burke Joe friel etc I just don't know what to do, Please can you guys give me a hand here, I am looking to start racing next year after a good winter , I am a pretty hard ******* and I can really turn myself inside out when training, But I want to do things right this time, and not over do things again I just can't get head around how much intervals and high intensity stuff everyone does these days, I weight 66 kg, 5ft 9, ride a 51cm sloping Geo bike with 105, and fitted right for me with longer stem etc I train with HR and don't have power . My max HR is 191 LT is 169 current from the lab My riding style has always been high cadence 100-140 Naturally good on disgustingly long hills, but struggle on short stuff that big guys smash up, I also for some reason now can't rise on the drops bcos It makes my HR rise alot and I can feel my legs fatigue straight away, possibly flex issues? In summary them, how can I get ready for the racing scene next year, I want to destroy people and make them cry trying to hold my wheel, currently on rice beans and sweet potatoes diet which is delightful lol no I quite like it, I am living in the Cotswolds Thanks
 
With your experience it sounds like you know what you need to do, but maybe don't have the discipline to stick with a plan. I would pick a direction and go with it. My guess is from the sounds of your past ability you already have high aerobic/anaerobic capabilities that will only take a bit of "freshening" to be right back where it was before, but maybe seem to lack a little in the power department, so I would focus on that. Start with some strength training now and make that a part of your training as long as you can before you feel like it is interfering with what you need to do. Start building a solid base on the bike and incorporate some 20-30min intervals, maybe spinning a bigger gear and a lower cadence than what you need to do and then continue past the building phases focusing on force and muscular endurance. Once you get closer to race season start incorporating some shorter intervals and bring some power training into the equation, and then lastly freshen up what you are already good at.

As for your HR jumping when you are up on the bars it could be a lot of factors, I would guess that position is now unnatural for you which is causing your HR to climb. Also, if you are just going out and holding say an L2 pace and then you drop the hammer your HR is going to shock your system and cause your HR jump much higher than if you are at a race pace and your HR has settled into a higher HR, at least that is my experience.

Good luck to you it sounds like if you really focus on it you could be quite the cyclist.
 
Thanks very much for taking the time to type all that out So in terms of developing a solid base, I have a few different points to talk about, My old training ways + military training ways+ friel and Edmund burkes POV is To get the miles in, slowly building up to race distance + x, this still holds true I assume, This I am doing in zone 2 so HR is between 137 and 148 which is very very easy IMO, almost feels like a waiste of time even being out and I get tempted to start increasing HR /speed Maybe I should move onto the perceived effort way, to crank things up to the right intensity but then I know I'll be riding tempo alll the way, Ps, I did the Joe friel 5k TT test Avg HR was 183, max was 191 albeit I was suffering , but with the calculations it says my LT is 181, Which it isn't as the lab proves, Your thoughts on these tests?
 
YMMV with lab tests and getting your threshold from a 'breakpoint' in a lactate curve done during a step test. It also depends on how good the guys at the lab are.

Years ago I had a few lab tests done and according to the lab my threshold based on the 'mythical', or in my case non-existant, breakpoint was almost 20 beats and 40 watts lower than what I could grind out on the Kingcycle test rig for an hour. That 4mmol... that was my 50+mile TT pace, my 25 mile TT effort yielded a near 7mmol blood lactate level. The guys at the lab were sure that the 4mmol level was my threshold and I'd "die trying" if I rode at what I percieved my theshold to be. A bit of pain, sweat and suffering later and they were buying lunch...

Heart rate varies with time of day, temperature and tiredness. If you're doing tests then try and keep things as constant as possible. I used to ride lots of time trials and I knew my Saturday afternoon 25mile TT HR was almost 5 to 10bpm higher than 6am Sunday morning 25mile effort.
 
I want to destroy people and make them cry trying to hold my wheel
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Originally Posted by Yellowcat2354 .

I weight 66 kg, 5ft 9, ride a 51cm sloping Geo bike with 105, and fitted right for me with longer stem Naturally good on disgustingly long hills, but struggle on short stuff that big guys smash up,

I am living in the Cotswolds

Thanks
For some reason I'm having a hard time picturing someone who's 5'9 on a 51cm frame and everything fitting correctly and it's probably why you can't ride in the drops without your legs giving out and your heart rate soaring through the roof.

You live in the Cotswolds - you don't have disgustingly long hills. ;)

If you struggle at the short stuff, make sure you spend some of your shorter interval work on the short/steep stuff. Find some hills that are between 1 in 8 and 1 in 4 and stuff it 39x21 or 19 and have some fun for a couple of minutes. Being a para you should be able to deal with the "discomfort". In training try different gears on steep hills as what feels faster sometimes really isn't. The stopwatch never lies.

As you found out before, training is only part of the equation. Rest is another big part. You can't train well and improve without enough rest - which is why your ex-riding buddy could put in the hard training sessions and you couldn't. He was used to the workload and recovered. Train as before but with either more sleep each night, an extra rest day during the week or train at a slightly lower intensity.
 
You sound very strong and relatively clueless about training. Perfect candidate for a coach.
 
Swampy, I think the "sloping" geometry OP mentions is +3cm to whatever it indicates. A few years back I had a Colnago Primavera 51cm Sloping with an effective top tube of 54.5cm, essentially a 54cm.