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question about tubulars

post #1 of 86
Thread Starter 
I'm new to tubulars and have a question about carrying a spare-is it
necessary to preglue the spare, and if so, how is it best to carry it? Or,
can you put the spare on using the residual glue on the rim-would this allow
you to continue with the ride/race, or are you pretty much done and have to
limp back? Any pointers/opinions appreciated.
post #2 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

"KV" <kvaughn3@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:XJ9Ti.1478$od4.1249@trnddc04...
> I'm new to tubulars and have a question about carrying a spare-is it
> necessary to preglue the spare, and if so, how is it best to carry it?
> Or, can you put the spare on using the residual glue on the rim-would
> this allow you to continue with the ride/race, or are you pretty much
> done and have to limp back? Any pointers/opinions appreciated.

You're better off with a preglued tubular but either way, take it easy
in the turns and brake with the other wheel on the ride home.

Phil H
post #3 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

KV wrote:
> I'm new to tubulars and have a question about carrying a spare-is it
> necessary to preglue the spare, and if so, how is it best to carry it? Or,
> can you put the spare on using the residual glue on the rim-would this allow
> you to continue with the ride/race, or are you pretty much done and have to
> limp back? Any pointers/opinions appreciated.


Pre-glue the spare. I always used a tire that had been ridden on
already --- usually one that had flatted --- as my spare. If it is
pre-glued it sticks pretty well. As you fold it up to carry it, first
fold it in half and stick glue to glue. I would always then fold it to
be about 6" long and stuff it in an old sock.

We always continued the race after repairing a flat, unless it was
hopeless, like it would be in a crit. Heck, you gotta get back to the
start/finish anyway.

Of course all this begs the question of why you would bother with
tubulars this day and age, anyway. If you are near enough to the edge
of the performance curve to see an advantage, make sure your team car
carries spare wheels.

--

David L. Johnson

"Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The common
welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence,
were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of
water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
--Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"
post #4 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

David L. Johnson wrote:

> Of course all this begs the question of why you would bother with
> tubulars this day and age, anyway. If you are near enough to the edge
> of the performance curve to see an advantage, make sure your team car
> carries spare wheels.
>

If glued on properly they won't roll off as clinchers do
:-(
post #5 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

Dan Gregory wrote:
> David L. Johnson wrote:
>
>> Of course all this begs the question of why you would bother with
>> tubulars this day and age, anyway. If you are near enough to the edge
>> of the performance curve to see an advantage, make sure your team car
>> carries spare wheels.
>>

> If glued on properly they won't roll off as clinchers do
> :-(


The idea of tires rolling off is exclusively related to tubulars, not
clinchers. I've used both, and have rolled two tubulars, zero clinchers.

Why don't you trot out the other usual advantages proclaimed for
tubulars: that you can ride with them flat (not high on my list of
advantages -- with clinchers, you can repair the flat, instead), that
they grip the road better (how is a matter of denial of physics), that
they don't pinch flat (I donno, I've only gone 10 years riding clinchers
with, let's see, zero pinch flats).

Look at ads for tubulars. The big selling points are that they are
"round and straight" --- meaning that many tubulars are neither, and
that you should buy this brand in order to get what most people take for
granted with clinchers.

I used to ride wonderful tubular tires, Clement Campionato del Mundo
(sp?), or Criterium Setas. Clinchers, then, were just awful. Now, very
nice, light, supple clinchers are $30, and a halfway-round tubular costs
twice that.

Sorry, unless you've got that team car following you, I just don't see
the advantages.

--

David L. Johnson
post #6 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
news:xpKdnWdFaJSeDYPanZ2dnUVZ_tGonZ2d@ptd.net...
> Dan Gregory wrote:
>> David L. Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Of course all this begs the question of why you would bother with
>>> tubulars this day and age, anyway. If you are near enough to the edge
>>> of the performance curve to see an advantage, make sure your team car
>>> carries spare wheels.
>>>

>> If glued on properly they won't roll off as clinchers do
>> :-(

>
> The idea of tires rolling off is exclusively related to tubulars, not
> clinchers. I've used both, and have rolled two tubulars, zero clinchers.
>
> Why don't you trot out the other usual advantages proclaimed for tubulars:
> that you can ride with them flat (not high on my list of advantages --
> with clinchers, you can repair the flat, instead), that they grip the road
> better (how is a matter of denial of physics), that they don't pinch flat
> (I donno, I've only gone 10 years riding clinchers with, let's see, zero
> pinch flats).
>
> Look at ads for tubulars. The big selling points are that they are "round
> and straight" --- meaning that many tubulars are neither, and that you
> should buy this brand in order to get what most people take for granted
> with clinchers.
>
> I used to ride wonderful tubular tires, Clement Campionato del Mundo
> (sp?), or Criterium Setas. Clinchers, then, were just awful. Now, very
> nice, light, supple clinchers are $30, and a halfway-round tubular costs
> twice that.
>
> Sorry, unless you've got that team car following you, I just don't see the
> advantages.


I'll second Dave's comments. Though I've had plenty of pinch flats on
clinchers I'll also note that one of the reasons that you didn't pinch flat
on Clement tubulars was because they put a skirt over the sewing thread. I
have gotten quite a few pinch flats on Continental tubulars that are missing
that expensive detail. Continental believes that you don't get pinch flats
if you pump the pressure high enough. That's probably so but if you ride on
the street with 160+ psi the ride on the tubular is no better than with a
clincher.

As for ride - a 95 psi tubular rides very nicely indeed and feels
considerably better than a clincher at any pressure. That doesn't, however,
translate to faster times, better cornering or longer wear. In other words,
aside from the feel there are only slight advantages to tubulars and tons of
disadvantages:

1) They are really expensive and a couple of spare tubulars are heavier and
take up more room than a couple of spare innertubes.

2) Finding good tubulars is a problem though not as bad as it used to be
before the advent of the internet.

3) Unless you really know how to sew them back up after a repair, there will
be a hard spot in the tire that feels like a lump. And the tire won't corner
as well because of that.

4) Repairs of a sewup is a time consuming pain in the butt that no one in
their right mind would take on. Racing teams want the feel of tubulars
because they do ride smoother and that might translate into less fatigue in
a long race. But they also toss out tubulars that have flatted - they don't
take chances with a repair.

The fact is that you can race better on $30 Michelin tires than you can on
$100 Clements.
post #7 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

Tom Kunich wrote:

> 1) They are really expensive and a couple of spare tubulars are heavier
> and take up more room than a couple of spare innertubes.


Tubulars are generally race wheels, where you don't carry spares.

>
> 2) Finding good tubulars is a problem though not as bad as it used to be
> before the advent of the internet.


Not a problem, at all, with the internet.

>
> 3) Unless you really know how to sew them back up after a repair, there
> will be a hard spot in the tire that feels like a lump. And the tire
> won't corner as well because of that.
>
> 4) Repairs of a sewup is a time consuming pain in the butt that no one
> in their right mind would take on. Racing teams want the feel of
> tubulars because they do ride smoother and that might translate into
> less fatigue in a long race. But they also toss out tubulars that have
> flatted - they don't take chances with a repair.


Generally, tubulars are restricted to race wheels, so the expense of replacing tires is considered acceptable.

>
> The fact is that you can race better on $30 Michelin tires than you can
> on $100 Clements.
>


Personally, the best riding clinchers I've tried are Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX.

But the #1 argument for clinchers is, when paired with latex tubes, they have lower rolling resistance:
http://www.biketechreview.com/tires/AFM_tire_crr.htm

The Vittoria's scored very well.

This is a quantitative advantage which is hard to argue against. Given this, why did I just get some Reynolds tubular wheels? They were much lighter than the clincher version, but hardly worth the difference in rolling resistance. I did buy Veloflex Carbon tubulars, which scored lowest for >20mm tubulars in the Tour rolling resistance test (different test data), but still, significantly more RR than the Open Corsa's. I suppose I succumbed to the usual arguments, and the lower weight.

Dan
post #8 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

In article <qxzTi.210$%Y6.0@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>,
Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m> wrote:

> This is a quantitative advantage which is hard to argue against. Given this,
> why did I just get some Reynolds tubular wheels? They were much lighter
> than the clincher version, but hardly worth the difference in rolling
> resistance.


I tried a set of the clincher version for a couple of weeks last year. Yeah, they
weigh more than the tubular version but they're still pretty damn light. They felt a
lot better than the Ksyriums. Certainly better on hilly rides.

--
tanx,
Howard

Faberge eggs are elegant but I prefer Faberge bacon.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
post #9 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

On Oct 22, 4:45 pm, "KV" <kvaug...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I'm new to tubulars and have a question about carrying a spare-is it
> necessary to preglue the spare, and if so, how is it best to carry it?


Yes and just fold it up. I am sure there is a diagram somewhere..hold
end of tubies, turn each siude 90 degrees and fold..hard to describe,
easy if you see it..then secure with as toe strap under your saddle.

Or,
> can you put the spare on using the residual glue on the rim-would this allow
> you to continue with the ride/race, or are you pretty much done and have to
> limp back? Any pointers/opinions appreciated.


Prelube the spare and after you put it on and pump up..ride but be
careful about high speed corners..not as safe as a well glued one.
post #10 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

On Oct 22, 6:47 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
wrote:
> KV wrote:
> > I'm new to tubulars and have a question about carrying a spare-is it
> > necessary to preglue the spare, and if so, how is it best to carry it? Or,
> > can you put the spare on using the residual glue on the rim-would this allow
> > you to continue with the ride/race, or are you pretty much done and have to
> > limp back? Any pointers/opinions appreciated.

>
> Pre-glue the spare. I always used a tire that had been ridden on
> already --- usually one that had flatted --- as my spare. If it is
> pre-glued it sticks pretty well. As you fold it up to carry it, first
> fold it in half and stick glue to glue. I would always then fold it to
> be about 6" long and stuff it in an old sock.
>
> We always continued the race after repairing a flat, unless it was
> hopeless, like it would be in a crit. Heck, you gotta get back to the
> start/finish anyway.
>
> Of course all this begs the question of why you would bother with
> tubulars this day and age, anyway. If you are near enough to the edge
> of the performance curve to see an advantage, make sure your team car
> carries spare wheels.
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson


Here we go..must be winter-safer, more comfy ride, wee bit less
weight, corner better...but if ya don't like 'em, don't use them. I
see no compelling reason to change my tubies to clinchers, but
YMMV..LOTS of tubie choices these days, LOTS of rims as well...
post #11 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

On Oct 23, 6:21 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
wrote:
> Dan Gregory wrote:
> > David L. Johnson wrote:

>
> >> Of course all this begs the question of why you would bother with
> >> tubulars this day and age, anyway. If you are near enough to the edge
> >> of the performance curve to see an advantage, make sure your team car
> >> carries spare wheels.

>
> > If glued on properly they won't roll off as clinchers do
> > :-(

>
> The idea of tires rolling off is exclusively related to tubulars, not
> clinchers. I've used both, and have rolled two tubulars, zero clinchers.
>
> Why don't you trot out the other usual advantages proclaimed for
> tubulars: that you can ride with them flat (not high on my list of
> advantages -- with clinchers, you can repair the flat, instead), that
> they grip the road better (how is a matter of denial of physics), that
> they don't pinch flat (I donno, I've only gone 10 years riding clinchers
> with, let's see, zero pinch flats).
>
> Look at ads for tubulars. The big selling points are that they are
> "round and straight" --- meaning that many tubulars are neither, and
> that you should buy this brand in order to get what most people take for
> granted with clinchers.
>
> I used to ride wonderful tubular tires, Clement Campionato del Mundo
> (sp?), or Criterium Setas. Clinchers, then, were just awful. Now, very
> nice, light, supple clinchers are $30, and a halfway-round tubular costs
> twice that.
>
> Sorry, unless you've got that team car following you, I just don't see
> the advantages.
>
> --
>
> David L. Johnson


OK..press on!!

'Merika...f__k ya!!(to quote a moovie line).
post #12 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

David L. Johnson wrote:
> Dan Gregory wrote:
>> David L. Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Of course all this begs the question of why you would bother with
>>> tubulars this day and age, anyway. If you are near enough to the
>>> edge of the performance curve to see an advantage, make sure your
>>> team car carries spare wheels.
>>>

>> If glued on properly they won't roll off as clinchers do
>> :-(

>
> The idea of tires rolling off is exclusively related to tubulars, not
> clinchers. I've used both, and have rolled two tubulars, zero clinchers.

My glum expression wass due to the fact that I blew a front clicher on
the descent of a col and it did roll off as well as snagging the front
forks. Onlookers said I did a perfect somersault.
When I raced I suffered several punctures and flats on tubs. Never had
one come off, except once when I hadn't glued it on properly as I was
only riding across town. It brought me down as I sprinted away from the
lights at the Place de la Concorde. Interesting experience that was.
post #13 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:

> Prelube the spare and after you put it on and pump up..ride but be
> careful about high speed corners..not as safe as a well glued one.


No, no. You lube the tapers on your cranks, not your tires...

--

David L. Johnson

Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death.
And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not
be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
-- J. R. R. Tolkein
post #14 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

On Oct 22, 7:47 pm, "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu>
wrote:
> Pre-glue the spare. I always used a tire that had been ridden on
> already --- usually one that had flatted --- as my spare. If it is
> pre-glued it sticks pretty well. As you fold it up to carry it, first
> fold it in half and stick glue to glue. I would always then fold it to
> be about 6" long and stuff it in an old sock.


Definitely pre-glue. Another way to fold a spare is in half, base-tape
to base-tape then in thirds tread-to-tread. Then place in a sock. I
can get two spares side by side in a Jann bag (Tufo uses the same
design).

> We always continued the race after repairing a flat, unless it was
> hopeless, like it would be in a crit. Heck, you gotta get back to the
> start/finish anyway.


Follow vehicles should have your spare wheels in a road race. Chasing
back on for me was usually hopeless but not always. Not so hopeless in
a crit now with the free lap rule.

> Of course all this begs the question of why you would bother with
> tubulars this day and age, anyway. If you are near enough to the edge
> of the performance curve to see an advantage, make sure your team car
> carries spare wheels.


I race on tubulars until they go flat, repair them myself (unless I
feel Tire Alert can do a better job) then use 'em as training tires.
When they can no longer be repaired (up to three patches sometimes)
then they're given to a friend that turns 'em into door mats. It's a
system that's worked for me these past 20 years.

Greg Hall
post #15 of 86

Re: question about tubulars

On Oct 24, 7:45 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com> wrote:
> On Oct 22, 4:45 pm, "KV" <kvaug...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm new to tubulars and have a question about carrying a spare-is it
> > necessary to preglue the spare, and if so, how is it best to carry it?

>
> Yes and just fold it up. I am sure there is a diagram somewhere..hold
> end of tubies, turn each siude 90 degrees and fold..hard to describe,
> easy if you see it..then secure with as toe strap under your saddle.
>
> Or,
>
> > can you put the spare on using the residual glue on the rim-would this allow
> > you to continue with the ride/race, or are you pretty much done and have to
> > limp back? Any pointers/opinions appreciated.

>
> Prelube the spare and after you put it on and pump up..ride but be
> careful about high speed corners..not as safe as a well glued one.



Hi there.

The best thing about clinchers is that once you have repaired the flat
or changed the tube and reinflated it you are set just like you were
at the beginning of your ride and you do *NOT* have to *WORRY* about
cornering. This means you can ride the same way as you have been
unlike the in-the-field-changed tubular where you need to be very
careful in cornering and braking lest the tyre roll off the rim.

I like the feel of tubulars but like the no hassel ease of repair of
clinchers more.

Cheers from Peter
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