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The New York Spaghetti House...

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
....was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and closed
sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its dishes, the
most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a very meaty sauce
with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked almost like brown gravy.
Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm sure it had its detractors.

I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed mushrooms
added to the sauce.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
______________________________________________________________

It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
post #2 of 28

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 21:33:35 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> ...was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and closed
> sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its dishes, the
> most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a very meaty sauce
> with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked almost like brown gravy.
> Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm sure it had its detractors.
>
> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed mushrooms
> added to the sauce.


Spaghetti, Cleveland, brown sauce.... Sounds like
Cincinatti-style chili over spaghetti (AKA: A "2-way").

-sw
post #3 of 28

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

I found this on the Internet:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Del's Feast: New York Spaghetti House


Created: 8/25/2006 3:14:14 PM
Updated:8/25/2006 3:19:23 PM


We shared this week's Del's Folks Feast at the newly restored New York
Spaghetti House, a landmark downtown Cleveland restaurant since 1927.
History tells us a young New York man dedicated his talents to
building a Cleveland restaurant New York style.

Through the years the menu has been updated, however, spaghetti is
still the most popular dish, topped with a special brown sauce.

The restaurant is open for lunch and dinner every day.

Plus check out THEIR website!
http://www.newyorkspaghettihouse.com/faqs.html
Go to products and you can see where to buy their brown sauce!

Here is a fan's tribute site to that place. Must have been popular
with a lot of people!
http://members.tripod.com/~Gardens/NYSpag.html

Mark
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
post #4 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

Oh pshaw, on Sat 03 Nov 2007 02:50:02p, Sqwertz meant to say...

> On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 21:33:35 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> ...was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and
>> closed sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its
>> dishes, the most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a
>> very meaty sauce with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked
>> almost like brown gravy. Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm
>> sure it had its detractors.
>>
>> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
>> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed
>> mushrooms added to the sauce.

>
> Spaghetti, Cleveland, brown sauce.... Sounds like
> Cincinatti-style chili over spaghetti (AKA: A "2-way").
>
> -sw
>


Not in the slightest, Steve.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
______________________________________________________________

It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

Oh pshaw, on Sat 03 Nov 2007 03:17:48p, Janet meant to say...

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns99DD941C1B20Cwayneboatwrightatgma@69.28.173.184...
>> ...was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and
>> closed sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its
>> dishes, the most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a
>> very meaty sauce with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked
>> almost like brown gravy. Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm
>> sure it had its detractors.
>>
>> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
>> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed
>> mushrooms added to the sauce.
>>
>> --
>> Wayne Boatwright

>
> That sounds SO GOOD! I'm making a pseudo-bolognese right now because of
> the Hearty Meat Sauce thread...I'd love to know what was in this one.
> Isn't Ohio famous for its chili served over spaghetti (remembering
> Calvin Trillin)?


Yes, unfortunately. It has to be one of the most vile things I've ever had
the displeasure to taste. That's Cincinnati Chili, home-based (naturally)
in Cincinnati. I guess many Cincinnatians and others from nearby regions
love the stuff. It recipe was developed originally by a Greek imigrant who
clearly new nothing about either chili or spaghetti. <G>

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
______________________________________________________________

It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
post #6 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

Oh pshaw, on Sat 03 Nov 2007 03:20:18p, FERRANTE meant to say...

> I found this on the Internet:
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- Del's Feast: New York Spaghetti House
>
>
> Created: 8/25/2006 3:14:14 PM
> Updated:8/25/2006 3:19:23 PM
>
>
> We shared this week's Del's Folks Feast at the newly restored New York
> Spaghetti House, a landmark downtown Cleveland restaurant since 1927.
> History tells us a young New York man dedicated his talents to
> building a Cleveland restaurant New York style.
>
> Through the years the menu has been updated, however, spaghetti is
> still the most popular dish, topped with a special brown sauce.
>
> The restaurant is open for lunch and dinner every day.
>
> Plus check out THEIR website!
> http://www.newyorkspaghettihouse.com/faqs.html
> Go to products and you can see where to buy their brown sauce!
>
> Here is a fan's tribute site to that place. Must have been popular
> with a lot of people!
> http://members.tripod.com/~Gardens/NYSpag.html
>
> Mark
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>


Mark, thank you for your efforts, but unfortunately, I've been down that
road before. The product you can buy now bears little resemblance to what
was served in the restaurant. There are tons of references to the
restaurant on the Internet, and I've looked at many of them.

Members of the family tried to open another restaurant in nearby Westlake,
Ohio but even the food there did not seem the same, and it failed after
about a year.

Some friends still in Cleveland bought the frozen sauce (both the Brown
Sauce and their Romano Sauce), and declared them edible but not what they
were.

Thanks again...

:-(((

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
______________________________________________________________

It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
post #7 of 28

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright@cox.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:Xns99DD941C1B20Cwayneboatwrightatgma@69.28.173.184...
> ...was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and closed
> sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its dishes, the
> most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a very meaty sauce
> with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked almost like brown
> gravy.
> Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm sure it had its detractors.
>
> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed
> mushrooms
> added to the sauce.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright


Artusi's meat sauce in his seminal Italian cook book is like that. It's
meat plus seasonings cooking in milk, and it is optional as to whether to
add tomato concentrate at all, and if added it is only a tablespoon or so.

--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com
post #8 of 28

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright@cox.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:Xns99DD941C1B20Cwayneboatwrightatgma@69.28.173.184...
> ...was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and closed
> sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its dishes, the
> most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a very meaty sauce
> with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked almost like brown
> gravy.
> Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm sure it had its detractors.
>
> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed
> mushrooms
> added to the sauce.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright


Artusi's meat sauce in his seminal Italian cook book is like that. It's
meat plus seasonings cooking in milk, and it is optional as to whether to
add tomato concentrate at all, and if added it is only a tablespoon or so.

--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com
post #9 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

Oh pshaw, on Sun 04 Nov 2007 06:27:52a, Giusi meant to say...

> "Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright@cox.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:Xns99DD941C1B20Cwayneboatwrightatgma@69.28.173.184...
>> ...was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and

closed
>> sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its dishes,

the
>> most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a very meaty

sauce
>> with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked almost like brown
>> gravy. Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm sure it had its
>> detractors.
>>
>> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
>> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed
>> mushrooms added to the sauce.
>>
>> --
>> Wayne Boatwright

>
> Artusi's meat sauce in his seminal Italian cook book is like that. It's
> meat plus seasonings cooking in milk, and it is optional as to whether to
> add tomato concentrate at all, and if added it is only a tablespoon or

so.
>


Could you posssibly post that? I would really love to try it.

TIA

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
______________________________________________________________

It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
post #10 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

Oh pshaw, on Sun 04 Nov 2007 06:27:52a, Giusi meant to say...

> "Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright@cox.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:Xns99DD941C1B20Cwayneboatwrightatgma@69.28.173.184...
>> ...was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and

closed
>> sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its dishes,

the
>> most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a very meaty

sauce
>> with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked almost like brown
>> gravy. Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm sure it had its
>> detractors.
>>
>> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
>> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed
>> mushrooms added to the sauce.
>>
>> --
>> Wayne Boatwright

>
> Artusi's meat sauce in his seminal Italian cook book is like that. It's
> meat plus seasonings cooking in milk, and it is optional as to whether to
> add tomato concentrate at all, and if added it is only a tablespoon or

so.
>


Could you posssibly post that? I would really love to try it.

TIA

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
______________________________________________________________

It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
post #11 of 28

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99DD941C1B20Cwayneboatwrightatgma@69.28.173.184...
> ...was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and closed
> sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its dishes, the
> most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a very meaty sauce
> with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked almost like brown
> gravy.
> Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm sure it had its detractors.
>
> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed
> mushrooms
> added to the sauce.


It sounds delicious, Wayne. What did you do (specifically) during your
attempts to replicate the sauce?

You've probably read this before, but I found this in the NYSH FAQs (to give
you more info about how the sauce is made at the restaurant):

Q: If the Brown Sauce is a meat sauce, where's the meat?
A: A large quantity of meat is contained in this sauce. In staying with the
traditional texture, it is ground to nearly a pureed consistency. In the
early days, and until very recent time, meat at the New York Spaghetti House
was purchased in whole pieces and cut into servings by the head chef. Then,
the extra pieces of the leg of lamb, the fillet of beef, the leg of veal,
and the pork that were not suitable for a required portion on an entrée were
ground together finely and went into making the brown sauce. Today, only
high quality beef and pork are used and, staying true to the original
recipe, it too is ground very fine into a pureed consistency after it has
been cooked with the some spices, onion, garlic and a small dash of red wine
vinegar.



Mary
post #12 of 28

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99DD941C1B20Cwayneboatwrightatgma@69.28.173.184...
> ...was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and closed
> sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its dishes, the
> most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a very meaty sauce
> with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked almost like brown
> gravy.
> Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm sure it had its detractors.
>
> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed
> mushrooms
> added to the sauce.


It sounds delicious, Wayne. What did you do (specifically) during your
attempts to replicate the sauce?

You've probably read this before, but I found this in the NYSH FAQs (to give
you more info about how the sauce is made at the restaurant):

Q: If the Brown Sauce is a meat sauce, where's the meat?
A: A large quantity of meat is contained in this sauce. In staying with the
traditional texture, it is ground to nearly a pureed consistency. In the
early days, and until very recent time, meat at the New York Spaghetti House
was purchased in whole pieces and cut into servings by the head chef. Then,
the extra pieces of the leg of lamb, the fillet of beef, the leg of veal,
and the pork that were not suitable for a required portion on an entrée were
ground together finely and went into making the brown sauce. Today, only
high quality beef and pork are used and, staying true to the original
recipe, it too is ground very fine into a pureed consistency after it has
been cooked with the some spices, onion, garlic and a small dash of red wine
vinegar.



Mary
post #13 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

Oh pshaw, on Sun 04 Nov 2007 08:11:37a, MareCat meant to say...

> "Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns99DD941C1B20Cwayneboatwrightatgma@69.28.173.184...
>> ...was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and
>> closed sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its
>> dishes, the most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a
>> very meaty sauce with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked
>> almost like brown gravy. Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm
>> sure it had its detractors.
>>
>> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
>> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed
>> mushrooms added to the sauce.

>
> It sounds delicious, Wayne. What did you do (specifically) during your
> attempts to replicate the sauce?
>
> You've probably read this before, but I found this in the NYSH FAQs (to
> give you more info about how the sauce is made at the restaurant):
>
> Q: If the Brown Sauce is a meat sauce, where's the meat?
> A: A large quantity of meat is contained in this sauce. In staying with
> the traditional texture, it is ground to nearly a pureed consistency. In
> the early days, and until very recent time, meat at the New York
> Spaghetti House was purchased in whole pieces and cut into servings by
> the head chef. Then, the extra pieces of the leg of lamb, the fillet of
> beef, the leg of veal, and the pork that were not suitable for a
> required portion on an entrée were ground together finely and went into
> making the brown sauce. Today, only high quality beef and pork are used
> and, staying true to the original recipe, it too is ground very fine
> into a pureed consistency after it has been cooked with the some spices,
> onion, garlic and a small dash of red wine vinegar.
>
>
>
> Mary


Thanks, Mary...

Well, the first time I tried making it was a few months after the
restaurant closed and there was no websigt or FAQ. I used ground beef,
ground veal, and ground pork, and an approach much like a bolognese sauce.
No tomatoes, but I did saute onion, garlic, carrot, and celery. I used
small amounts or oregano and basil, but I didn't know about the vinegar. I
believe I also added a small amount of red wine, and some beef stock.
The result was tasty, but definitely not "the sauce". The meat was still
too coarse and the flavor was wrong.

I didn't try it again until after the website and the FAQ. Sooo, I began
by using whole pieces of meat (the same combination), cutting it in
smallish pieces before cooking in beef stock. I repeated the same
assortment of vegetables, sauteed and added to the cooking meat. I put the
whole thing through the find plate of the meat grinder twice. I did add a
bit of red wine vinegar and did not add the wine. This attempt was much
better, but still not quite right.

I've tried it two more times since then, with basically the same approach,
but varying the balance of ingredients and spices, and putting it through
the meat grinder 3 and 4 times. I end up with a good sauce, but it still
doesn't measure up to what the restaurant made. I suppose it may be the
balance of ingredients. I do get the right consistency, and if I had never
tasted the restaurant's sauce, I would probably be very please with the
result.

I guess I just have to keep practicing. Or, just maybe, it was eating it at
the New York Spaghetti House that was the charm. :-)

Their frozen product available for purchase in the Cleveland area isn't as
good as mine.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
______________________________________________________________

It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
post #14 of 28
Thread Starter 

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

Oh pshaw, on Sun 04 Nov 2007 08:11:37a, MareCat meant to say...

> "Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns99DD941C1B20Cwayneboatwrightatgma@69.28.173.184...
>> ...was a family run restaurant in Cleveland that opened in 1927 and
>> closed sometime in the late 1990s. It was famous for several of its
>> dishes, the most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a
>> very meaty sauce with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked
>> almost like brown gravy. Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm
>> sure it had its detractors.
>>
>> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
>> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed
>> mushrooms added to the sauce.

>
> It sounds delicious, Wayne. What did you do (specifically) during your
> attempts to replicate the sauce?
>
> You've probably read this before, but I found this in the NYSH FAQs (to
> give you more info about how the sauce is made at the restaurant):
>
> Q: If the Brown Sauce is a meat sauce, where's the meat?
> A: A large quantity of meat is contained in this sauce. In staying with
> the traditional texture, it is ground to nearly a pureed consistency. In
> the early days, and until very recent time, meat at the New York
> Spaghetti House was purchased in whole pieces and cut into servings by
> the head chef. Then, the extra pieces of the leg of lamb, the fillet of
> beef, the leg of veal, and the pork that were not suitable for a
> required portion on an entrée were ground together finely and went into
> making the brown sauce. Today, only high quality beef and pork are used
> and, staying true to the original recipe, it too is ground very fine
> into a pureed consistency after it has been cooked with the some spices,
> onion, garlic and a small dash of red wine vinegar.
>
>
>
> Mary


Thanks, Mary...

Well, the first time I tried making it was a few months after the
restaurant closed and there was no websigt or FAQ. I used ground beef,
ground veal, and ground pork, and an approach much like a bolognese sauce.
No tomatoes, but I did saute onion, garlic, carrot, and celery. I used
small amounts or oregano and basil, but I didn't know about the vinegar. I
believe I also added a small amount of red wine, and some beef stock.
The result was tasty, but definitely not "the sauce". The meat was still
too coarse and the flavor was wrong.

I didn't try it again until after the website and the FAQ. Sooo, I began
by using whole pieces of meat (the same combination), cutting it in
smallish pieces before cooking in beef stock. I repeated the same
assortment of vegetables, sauteed and added to the cooking meat. I put the
whole thing through the find plate of the meat grinder twice. I did add a
bit of red wine vinegar and did not add the wine. This attempt was much
better, but still not quite right.

I've tried it two more times since then, with basically the same approach,
but varying the balance of ingredients and spices, and putting it through
the meat grinder 3 and 4 times. I end up with a good sauce, but it still
doesn't measure up to what the restaurant made. I suppose it may be the
balance of ingredients. I do get the right consistency, and if I had never
tasted the restaurant's sauce, I would probably be very please with the
result.

I guess I just have to keep practicing. Or, just maybe, it was eating it at
the New York Spaghetti House that was the charm. :-)

Their frozen product available for purchase in the Cleveland area isn't as
good as mine.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
______________________________________________________________

It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
post #15 of 28

Re: The New York Spaghetti House...

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright@cox.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:Xns99DE437413FFBwayneboatwrightatgma@69.28.173.184...
It was famous for several of its dishes,
> the
>>> most notable probably being its "Brown Sauce". It was a very meaty

> sauce
>>> with a robust hearty flavor and a color that looked almost like brown
>>> gravy. Most people who ate it loved it, although I'm sure it had its
>>> detractors.
>>>
>>> I've never been able to find a recipe or succeed in many attempts at
>>> duplicating the sauce. Many people ordered it with fresh sauteed
>>> mushrooms added to the sauce.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wayne Boatwright

>>
>> Artusi's meat sauce in his seminal Italian cook book is like that. It's
>> meat plus seasonings cooking in milk, and it is optional as to whether to
>> add tomato concentrate at all, and if added it is only a tablespoon or

> so.
>>

>
> Could you posssibly post that? I would really love to try it.
>
> TIA
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright


While this book is a great read, the indexing is sparse. I haven't found
the one with milk that I've often made. Maybe it's from a different book?
Here, however, is Artusi's Bolognese meat sauce just as he wrote it, but
translated. It serves three. My ideas have ** around them.

about 5.25 ounces of veal diced very small
1.66 ounces of bacon (pamcetta dolce)
1.33 ounces butter
1/4 of a medium onion
1/2 of a carrot
2 palm sized lengths of celery
a small pinch of flour
a small pot of broth
very little or no salt, because the bacon and the broth have salt
pepper and optionally a scrape or two of nutmeg

Mince the bacon and the herbs very finely (with a mezzaluna) Put all the
main ingredients on the fire with the butter. When the meat has browned,
add the pinch of flour and then cook in broth until it is done.

**The "maccheroni" he calls for is called horse's teeth and you'd have to
make that. He uses about a pound. They use much less sauce here than in
America.**

Drain the macaroni well; flavor with Parmigiano Reggiano and this sauce.
The sauce can be made even tastier adding small pieces of dried mushrooms, a
few truffle slices, or a chicken liver cut small and cooked with the meats.
When everything is done and combined, you can add as a final touch a half
glass of cream (that usually means 1.75 ounces here.) Remember, in any
case, that the macaroni must not be served too dry, but rather well-coated
in sauce

**This is a go-to book if you want to know what Italian dishes were
originally like, since it dates from the 1870s. It's main value is in the
history and regional remarks, as all the recipes are written for cooking in
a fireplace.

The ragù recipe I make most often is done very similarly, except the broth
is replaced with milk, and as it cooks and reduces it gets quite brown. You
stir a little tomato concentrate in towards the end, and then IMO not
optionally, grate nutmeg over it to your taste. I use coarse chopped meat
for it, and as I recall, there was also the suggestion of melting butter
into at the very end, which I sometimes do. i'quite rich and makes a very
good filling for manicotti or crepes.**
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