or Connect
Cycling Forums › Forums › Bikes › Cycling Equipment › Are cyclists that carry guns paranoid and insecure gun fanatics?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Are cyclists that carry guns paranoid and insecure gun fanatics? - Page 83  

post #1231 of 1823

Personally I don't carry a handgun when I'm riding the bike, and I use to live in Los Angeles and ran into all kinds of freaks and geeks and never carried one there either.  After 40 years of riding you learn something about riding a bike, and that is you are never going to get your handgun out in time to defend yourself before your either shot or ran over.  However, I do carry a Derringer when I go bike camping, not to use while riding because of what I said about that, but in case something happens at the camp site by either man or beast.  Some of you are probably wondering why I limit myself to such short range and only two shots, because in real life 98% of shootings take place within 7 feet of the target, and 95% are only able to get one shot off; so carrying one of my larger handguns with me would would make no sense, plus take up room and add weight on the bike.  And with the smaller gun I can palm the gun without the person knowing I have a weapon giving me the element of surprise.

 

That's the way I roll, some of you others I'm sure have other ideas which is ok.  But as you can tell, I have no problem with someone wanting to arm themselves for some degree of sense of security.

post #1232 of 1823

 After 40 years of riding you learn something about riding a bike, and that is you are never going to get your handgun out in time to defend yourself before your either shot or ran over.

 

The cyclist in Reading, Pennsylvania, after being taken off the bike by a sucker punch to the face and then a kick to the head by another thug, drew and used his pistol to save his own life.

 

You and I WILL fight for your life when the chips are down.

 

...because in real life 98% of shootings take place within 7 feet of the target, and 95% are only able to get one shot off; so carrying one of my larger handguns with me would would make no sense, plus take up room and add weight on the bike.

 

Incorrect. Read the statistics. Most folks keep pulling the trigger until the handgun is empty or the threat is stopped.

 

Here is just one study, of many:

 

"SOP-9, as it is called, is NYPD's ongoing statistical study of lethal-force incidents in which MOSs (Members of Service) are involved. It dates from the 1860s to the present and is a credible source of information, one of the few available.

For years, we were all told SOP-9 established the "average" number of rounds fired by an MOS during a lethal encounter was two to three. We later learned that figure was incorrect and was actually the result of sloppy statistical analysis. Naive statisticians simply took the total of all rounds fired outside of the firing range and divided it by the total number of shooting "Incidents." Unhappily, "incidents" included accidents and suicides!

A more careful analysis of the data (which included only intentional shootings) revealed the actual figure to be very close to six rounds. What that said to us all was that officers, when threatened with lethal violence, were firing every round they had in their six-shot revolvers. After six shots, there was a mandatory pause for a conventional reload or a "NY reload," which consisted of producing a second revolver! After the reload, additional shooting was rarely necessary.

That was prior to 1994. In 1994 autoloading pistols were introduced to the NYPD system.

When autoloaders (mostly Glocks, with an occasional S&W and Beretta) came into the NYPD system, we all expected that figure (six) to go up into the teens, fully expecting officers to continue to fire every round they have. The latest data has shown our expectations to be incorrect!

The new "average" number of rounds fired is eight. Subsequent data may alter that number, but that is what we have now. What jumps out at me is that, after eight rounds are fired, the parties separate or accommodate to the point where additional shooting is not necessary, at least in the short term, even though the officer is fully capable of firing more rounds. NYPD shooting accuracy has improved steadily, but the average hit percentage is still below twenty, so, out of eight rounds fired, only one or two are likely to impact anywhere on the suspect. In most cases, hit or not, the suspect disengages and runs away."

 

Attackers do not stop unless you get a hit in on a vital organ or central nervous system. This takes bullet penetration, expansion and often multiple hits. Many more recent LEO shootings report the officers shooting to slide-lock in an almost automatic response. If something is worth shooting once, it's usually worth shooting a few more times to make certain the threat is stopped.

 

Orange Joolius took one, well placed round to the chest. His blood pressure probably dropped immediately. The second thug took one to the throat and probably freaked out, despite being able to carry on the fight had he been totally commited to doing so. The Reading cyclist was either VERY cool under pressure and a good shot or he got lucky. My guess is a little of both.

 

As far as size and weight go...9.4 ounces is what the 7-round (6+1) Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec P38T weighs. I'm guessing your 2-shot all-steel derringer weighs as much or more. The newest pocket pistols help even the odds out a bit...especially against the multiple attacker scenario faced by folks that run into the gangs the ghetto thugs like to engage their victims with.

 

Ride safely, Froze, and enjoy the day! The wilier got the chain cleaned this morning and I'm headed out to get it dirty again!

 

 

post #1233 of 1823

Hey Campybob!

 

Where do you hail from?  I appreciate your support for LE.  Some of the finest people I meet are during shooting matches that are not LE.  When the big one hits, who will come to US (peeps w/ guns) for help?  The sheep!  Enough said.  

post #1234 of 1823

Average shots fired is 7 to 8?  Someone can't hit their damn target if their flinging off that many shots, they better hope there's no innocent bystanders around.  Most police and self defense shootings take place within 7 feet of the assailant.  And some dope head is going to fire off 7 to 8 shots?  If you miss that first shot you might be dead, that's why the average number of shots fired in self defense is 2.8 not 7 or 8 CampyBob mentioned.  See: http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/carryguns.html  Gang related shootings there might be 7 or 8, but those dopes can't shoot their just raining bullets till their gun is empty.  Gun fights take place so fast at such a close range you don't have time to use your sights, that's why I carry the derringer because I know I won't be sighting, and the derringer allows the conceilment factor I mentioned for surprise.  Problem with the way shooting instructors teach gun use at ranges to civilians is using your sight, when in reality most gun shootings in defense are done without using the sights because there isn't time.  Thus people today really don't know how to fire a gun without using sights and will miss or not have the time to line up the shot.  What a weird thing that would have been like if the gunslingers of the 1800's drew then sighted in gun draw!  I've been trained to shoot both by sight and point.  See this for more info: http://www.pointshooting.com/rb3.htm

 

 I fire a 45 cal Derringer by the way, the most effective one shot round, read that site I mentioned and you'll see why.  Some people I ran into that carry Derringers like mine use a 410 shotgun shell for the first round and a 45 for the second, I don't do that, I run both chambers with 45's.  I like 45's a lot, I have a  M1911A1 Vietnam issue and it's a fantastic weapon.

post #1235 of 1823

Froze, Yes...9 MM 'may' expand, but .45 never shrinks! A 1911A1 is my personal choice every time I can lug it around. I've only been thru the standard NRA CCW course and one defensive pistol course (plus the usual IDPA competitions). My instructors told me to shoot...shoot...shoot. Until the threat is neutralized.

 

P&S's website is a good one. I've been there many times...great information.

 

The next sentence after "the average number of shots fired in self defense is 2.8" is...

 

This statement has been partially discredited

 

In high stress shooting conditions, MOST shots fired are clean misses. The next largest catagory of defensive shots fired, by repeated studies is, minimally wounding shots. The number of folks that survive MULTIPLE pistol wounds is staggeringly large. Frankly, a handgun...even one launching +P flying ashtrays from a double-stack magazine...is a poor choice for an offensive weapon. Realistically, it's the only choice for a defensive tool.

 

 

 

Ronin, I'm from Ohio. I was taught to respect LEO's...I guess I'm the product of another era. My local cops, deputies and Sheriff are pretty decent folks. They do a difficult job and deal with the worst elements of society. I have nothing but respect for most sworn officers. Yeah, there's a few idiots that wear a badge, but they are few and far between.

 

All any of us want to do is cycle in safety. Some, as evidenced by this thread, are oblivious to the reality of modern life. I choose to take responsibility for my safety and that of my family. No policeman is magically going to appear at the moment I need him the most. At that point...just like it happened with the 65-year old cyclist on the bike trail in Reading, Pennsylvania...it comes down to the individual citizen and the criminal(s) bent on causing severe bodily harm and felony theft.

 

At that point...what will a man do?

 

Become another victim? Another statistic?

 

Or be a victor?

 

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do...nothing.

 

And far too many good men have been raised to be sissies and do nothing. And they read the newspaper and hear the TV stories night anfter night and wonder 'why' society has become what it has...

 

post #1236 of 1823
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB View Post

Froze, Yes...9 MM 'may' expand, but .45 never shrinks! A 1911A1 is my personal choice every time I can lug it around. I've only been thru the standard NRA CCW course and one defensive pistol course (plus the usual IDPA competitions). My instructors told me to shoot...shoot...shoot. Until the threat is neutralized.

 

 



I think I fit gun fanatic, but not the carry part on the bike or the car (except to the range).

 

However, I will admit that I have a very disturbing fetish for 1911's. Good thing I have some control because I own just four at the moment.

Though not top of the line my fav at the moment is my S&W 1911. No miss fires or jams to this point.

 

Not my fav for punching holes in paper, but one that I would use in self defense is my Glock 21. Not as accurate and not a great trigger compared to the 1911's, but that thang is going off every single time and I can stagger FMJ and HP's and still depend on it feeding.

 

I do have a carry (palm) size with an older Colt .25, but do not carry.

 

It has been a rough year for me so far with Sig Sauer and Ruger in the 1911 game. Neither of them are top of the line, but I am fighting the fever of a new addition not to mention how can I claim to have a fetish and not have a Springfield, but they have so many models that I cannot decide which to add. TRP or just the Fully Loaded? ...and yet a couple new versions of XD's as well.

 

I have a number of calibers in the house and mainly shoot a Sig 522 and Ruger 22/45 at the range for plinking costs, but .45 ACP is my favorite.

 

 

 

post #1237 of 1823

Felt_Rider,

 

  I also give my rimfires more of a workout than my centerfires. Currently, my S&W 22A gets carried around the farm and shot more than anything else I own.

The suppressed Walther P22 is a close second (Tactical Innovations can).

 

  A fetish for 1911's is never a 'bad' thing! I'm a colt and Springfield owner (let's just say a 'few' of each...and I can quit any time I feel like it!!!). I'm jonesing for a Remington, myself. While not traditional, the SIG would go nicely with my 226. The TRP is to die for! What a pistol! Very nice build job by SA!

 

  The old colt pocket .25's are classic collectibles, but I think one of the little .22 LR pistols offers more penetration. My Baby Browning hasn't left the safe in decades. I should take it out and shoot it just for the memories.

 

  Glocks...what can I say. Ugly. Weird grip angle. And so damned reliable as to be boring. Great pistols IMO! The .40 caliber Kaboom model not withstanding, Glocks have become what every other make and model strives to be. The XD...the M&P...the 99...they all want to be as good as the Glock really is.

 

 

post #1238 of 1823
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyzackery View Post

(Another) Obviously destroyed psyche resorting to cherry-picking news articles.  Seriously??  He thinks this promotes his cause?!  Sad.

On a soapbox without an audience turning the pertinent issue into a racial/political statement.  What's really worse - a black guy blaming his life's problems and poor decision-making on the majority, or a white guy blaming his personal insecurity and impotence issues on minorities???  Both are equally lame to the extreme.

 

He's come full circle - employing last ditch efforts to regain some sense of self.

Should at least try to stay on point with regard to cycling, but alas, he knows his cause is lost so reaching is compulsory.  Sad, and in anonymity still...


bump.
 

 

post #1239 of 1823

While I love 1911's and have a few of them, Glock is my preference for every day carry. 

 

I'll stay out of the caliber debate.

post #1240 of 1823

Obviously destroyed psyche...

 

Wow...the exact same personal attack you used on other posters in the 'life's not FAIR' thread about a racer getting beat in a stage race. A broken record, indeed! New material, baby. You got to stay fresh!

 

On a soapbox without an audience...

 

Tony, Tony, Tony...it's lovely having YOU as an audience! Your attention is most appreciated! <standing O> I would like to thank all the little people that made this thread possible! Oh wait...it's probably going to offend you if I use the term, "little people"...I'ld like to thank all the people who ride frames shorter than 50 CM for making this thread possible!

 

What's really worse - a black guy blaming his life's problems and poor decision-making on the majority, or a white guy blaming his personal insecurity and impotence issues on minorities??? 

 

Sometimes...the fates collide. Such as was the case in Reading. In such an event both problems are solved! Am I a majority or a minority? Those damned Occupy The Outhouse idiots were just telling me that I was part of the 1%. I guess I'm a minority, after all! <cue the Walt disney "It's a Small World, Afterall" music> Where be my reparations, beotches?! Fo-tay acres and a mule! I wants my free stuff! Free Skittles for unarmed cyclists! (See? Topical!)

 

employing last ditch efforts to regain some sense of self.

 

I work...therefore I am? And my 'self' is tired of supporting all the government cheese teat-suckers. It's about time to go all John Galt on the welfare rats.

 

Should at least try to stay on point with regard to cycling,

 

Like your post and its' rerun is?

 

"The last word", indeed! 

post #1241 of 1823
Thread Starter 

One Energizer Bunny stops (for the moment) and passes the baton to another...sad.

post #1242 of 1823

How the pre-Tony whiners carried their pistols:

 

Iver_Johnson_Truss_Bridge_22.jpg

 

Imagine that...

 

Perhaps Tony can use his Delorean and go back in time to set the previous owner of this machine 'right'.

 

Set the Wayback machine for the era of the safety racer, Tony!

 

Smart cyclists...celebrating 130 years of causing liberal bed-wetters to cry!

 

This is a 1909 Iver Johnson Truss Bridge Racing bike.

Iver_Johnson_Truss_Bridge_011.jpg

 

the preferred pistol to fill that holster would be...an Iver Johnson, of course!

 

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1909-iver-johnson-truss-bridge-racer/

 

 

post #1243 of 1823

Iver Johnson doesn't build bicycles anymore, but they do sell a bunch of guns.

 

http://www.iverjohnsonarms.com/

 

I wonder why?

 

The company eventually dropped "Cycle Works" from its moniker when that part of the business was shut down. The business successfully weathered the Great Depression (in part thanks to higher rates of armed robbery crimes, which helped maintain demand for personal firearms)... (wiki)

 

A nice piece for larger cyclists to carry. Perhaps for a sprinter? Perfect for The Great Depression or The Great Recession!

 

63590e48a6bfe6caffff8176ffffe417.jpg

post #1244 of 1823

I'm all NRA all the time.  Shooting a gun at 170 hr bpm is really difficult.  Even a small carry piece would be terribly uncomfortable.

post #1245 of 1823

I'm all NRA all the time.

 

Congratulations! We can always use more members. Good to see more NRA members on bikes!

 

Shooting a gun at 170 hr bpm is really difficult.

 

Indeed it is. Run & Gun drills that get the heart rate up decrease accuracy. Shoot houses and 3-gun matches are good practice. I can not imagine the stress that the Reading cyclist was under and he managed to score a solid shot to the chest and a (lucky? off COM?) hit to the a second thug's neck. Any day you walk away from a fight and go home safely...it's a win.

 

Even a small carry piece would be terribly uncomfortable.

 

The Ruger LCP rides easily in a jersey pocket. Even during fast, out of the saddle climbing it is un-noticable to me. Prior to that, my CZ-82 was too much of a load, as was the PPK/S

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cycling Equipment
This thread is locked  
Cycling Forums › Forums › Bikes › Cycling Equipment › Are cyclists that carry guns paranoid and insecure gun fanatics?