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post #31 of 63
5/17/09 at 8:53am
Thread Starter 

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sikhandar
In Italy Campy has still a great market...more than 60%. And, talking with Campy staff, I got the impression they're not really interested in expanding their market a lot. They don't want to become the first in the world... they prefer to mantain their old relationships with italian frameset brands, with professional teams, with "old" customers. They don't care if the world is still 10 speed... they do something better and only who recognizes it will buy the 11 speed... Campy is not for everybody
The fact that Campa has more than 60% Italian market (as you say), shows, that they are interested in OEM market. I don't know how much of French, Grerman, UK and Spanish market they have- but that is definetly does't look like they are not interested in OEM (Record speced BH bikes were cheaper that Dure ace ones in my country, Chorus less than Ultegra etc..).
The campa is't for everybody as well as Shima or SRAM. It is all mater of personal preferences. Only think were both rivals can't compete with Campa is history. Personaly I don't care about it.
I would by Campa (i like thumb shifting, and like the looks of new shifters an whole centaur group), but that does't mean i should blindly belive it is somehow superior to others, or like "not for everybody". Cmon- milions own Campa- how it is "not for everybody"?
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post #32 of 63
5/17/09 at 9:09am
Thread Starter 

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by alienator
Ask Peter about Campagnolo's history and involvement in the OEM market. Don't believe me. Ask him about the same for SRAM and Shimano. FWIW, Shimano is the company most hurt by SRAM, as SRAM has cut pretty deep into Shimano OEM sales.
The fact that Shimano is more hurt by Sram does't mean Campa isnt hurt, i belive. There were plenty of people who bought Red bike instead of DA or Record one (or Rival instead of Ultegra or Centaur). And i am not talking here about how agresive campa are on wheel market, both Road and MTB (trough Fulcrum). But, what can i know.
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post #33 of 63
5/17/09 at 9:22am

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by catlike
I would by Campa (i like thumb shifting, and like the looks of new shifters an whole centaur group), but that does't mean i should blindly belive it is somehow superior to others, or like "not for everybody". Cmon- milions own Campa- how it is "not for everybody"?
Wait: I don't think Campy is superior to others, I didn't say that (actually I prefer Shimano, though I'm using a Chorus... it's a matter of team materials, we switch our wheels between teammates et cetera).

I used that expression to explain the feeling that I had talking with people working with them: they do not want to expand their market to low-cost bikes or to invest seriously on entry-level groups. For instance: the 2008 gamma was: Xenon-Mirage-Veloce-Centaur-Chorus-Record. Did you ever see a complete, 8 pcs Xenon sold on a website? No. Did you ever see a OEM bike with the Xenon? Incredibly rare. The same for the Mirage. Veloce? A lot of bikes / groupsets sold, but it's not the entry-level group.

...my impression is that Campy want to focus on high-end groups also in OEM production, and the new Athena 11s is intended in this sense. It's not the entry-level (the Veloce will remain).... but it's the OEM product that will get the money out of your wallet, as it is their will. In this sense "not for everybody", nothing more...

On the wheelsets Campy is much more aggressive, I think, with the fulcrum brand, right (and, well, let's admit it, they're indeed very good products)
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post #34 of 63
5/17/09 at 9:44am
Thread Starter 

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sikhandar

I used that expression to explain the feeling that I had talking with people working with them: they do not want to expand their market to low-cost bikes or to invest seriously on entry-level groups. For instance: the 2008 gamma was: Xenon-Mirage-Veloce-Centaur-Chorus-Record. Did you ever see a complete, 8 pcs Xenon sold on a website? No. Did you ever see a OEM bike with the Xenon? Incredibly rare. The same for the Mirage. Veloce? A lot of bikes / groupsets sold, but it's not the entry-level group.

...my impression is that Campy want to focus on high-end groups also in OEM production, and the new Athena 11s is intended in this sense. It's not the entry-level (the Veloce will remain).... but it's the OEM product that will get the money out of your wallet, as it is their will. In this sense "not for everybody", nothing more...

On the wheelsets Campy is much more aggressive, I think, with the fulcrum brand, right (and, well, let's admit it, they're indeed very good products)
Actualy some Time entry level bikes comes with mirage, but i agree thatt is rare, and that only confirms what you are saying. (I was allways wondering how bad those entry level campa groups are compared to my sora, if they are not putting them on bikes).
But same does the SRAM- their cheapest group isn't entry level. It does looks, like Shimano there is playing alone (while microshift has't grow enough) , and it is hard to tell are they enjoing that at all.
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post #35 of 63
5/17/09 at 10:36am

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by catlike
According to local Campagnolo advocat, term need applys on food only, therefore your question lacks intellect to post it.
you're right, I used the wrong word, perhaps 'requirements' or something else would be more appropriate.
however, the question remains - if there is no gain in the transfer ratio range and if apparently the addition of one cog above the middle range means almost nothing, why not offer 11-27 cassette?
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post #36 of 63
5/18/09 at 9:50am

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfeng
How many index 'notches' are on the 2009+ FRONT Campagnolo shifter?!?
Not enough. We have tried to install 2009 all but Xenon onto a triple and it doesn't get the FD all the way to the big ring on a triple. We have considered drilling a couple of more 'indents' on the little disc for the teeny bearings for the LH lever or using a really long armed FD that goes farther each click.
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post #37 of 63
5/18/09 at 2:11pm

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter@vecchios
Not enough. We have tried to install 2009 all but Xenon onto a triple and it doesn't get the FD all the way to the big ring on a triple. We have considered drilling a couple of more 'indents' on the little disc for the teeny bearings for the LH lever or using a really long armed FD that goes farther each click.
Thanks for your observation on the current limitations of the new front shifter's design ...

Not that the folks at Campagnolo care what 'I' think, but the limited "indexing" is really bad news as far as I'm concerned ...

Well, thankfully there is an indexing disc which can be 'corrected' later in the future OTHERWISE I suppose I will have another excuse to stay in a pre-2009 mode -- heck, I was already thinking of allowing the drivetrains on my bikes to devolve toward only 8-speeds if/when I ever work my way through the dozen-or-so 9-and-10-speed cassettes that I have.
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post #38 of 63
5/18/09 at 11:31pm

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sikhandar
In Italy Campy has still a great market...more than 60%. And, talking with Campy staff, I got the impression they're not really interested in expanding their market a lot. They don't want to become the first in the world... they prefer to mantain their old relationships with italian frameset brands, with professional teams, with "old" customers. They don't care if the world is still 10 speed... they do something better and only who recognizes it will buy the 11 speed... Campy is not for everybody
Certainly not for those without a $150 chain breaking tool!
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post #39 of 63
5/19/09 at 9:33am

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by biker jk
Certainly not for those without a $150 chain breaking tool!
Shop tool. You probably don't have a BB facing tool either. Buy one and have it for decades, like most Campagnolo tools.
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post #40 of 63
5/19/09 at 9:59am

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter@vecchios
Shop tool. You probably don't have a BB facing tool either. Buy one and have it for decades, like most Campagnolo tools.
Unfortunately, SOME tools become obsolete ...
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post #41 of 63
5/19/09 at 8:39pm

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter@vecchios
Shop tool. You probably don't have a BB facing tool either. Buy one and have it for decades, like most Campagnolo tools.
I'll stick with Shimano for now since I have all the tools to build the bike up. Why don't frame manufacturers do the bottom bracket facing themselves?
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post #42 of 63
5/20/09 at 12:44am

Re: Campagnolo Athena

Quote:
Originally Posted by biker jk
I'll stick with Shimano for now since I have all the tools to build the bike up. Why don't frame manufacturers do the bottom bracket facing themselves?
Time, and the cost of employing someone who knows what they are doing. Also, sealed BBs normally don't require the shell to be faced. Two Piece cranksets look like they probably need the BB to be faced but I'm not sure as I haven't worked with one yet. Anyway, it doesn't cost much to get your BB faced. I usually get my LBS to throw it in as a freebie when I buy a new bike from them, but it has been awhile and they might not be as accomodating as they were back then.
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post #43 of 63
5/20/09 at 2:47am

Re: Campagnolo Athena

The BB shell should be faced for 2 piece cranks.
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post #44 of 63
3/29/12 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by biker jk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sikhandar
In Italy Campy has still a great market...more than 60%. And, talking with Campy staff, I got the impression they're not really interested in expanding their market a lot. They don't want to become the first in the world... they prefer to mantain their old relationships with italian frameset brands, with professional teams, with "old" customers. They don't care if the world is still 10 speed... they do something better and only who recognizes it will buy the 11 speed... Campy is not for everybody
Certainly not for those without a $150 chain breaking tool!



Old thread, but I'm considering picking up an all alloy 11spd Athena group so reading it all. 

 

The KMC X11SL chain w/ Missing Link... apparently good news for those looking to bypass the pricey chain tool.

 

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post #45 of 63
3/29/12 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by danfoz View Post



Old thread, but I'm considering picking up an all alloy 11spd Athena group so reading it all. 

 

The KMC X11SL chain w/ Missing Link... apparently good news for those looking to bypass the pricey chain tool.

 


Also good news are the several other chain tools made by other companies that are compatible with 11 spd chains and finish the joining pin as designed.
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