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Shimano 105 - Page 2

post #16 of 31

Re: Shimano 105

Quote:
Originally Posted by davereo View Post
This may be good advice for someone to entertain if they have just purchased a used bike. Dude GT is struggling with a brand new purchase that is still under warranty.
Yes, I do realize that GT Fanatic is dealing with a new bike which is still under warranty ...

Regardless, the problem isn't with the bike, itself ...

And, the problem probably isn't with the Wrenches who have been working on the bike ...

Consequently, I was trying to explain WHY the problem was probably occurring & HOW it could possibly be resolved ...
I reckon that either swapping the pulley wheel OR changing the chain to Shimano's latest-and-greatest will probably mitigate the problem, but I suspect that GT Fanatic now realizes, first hand, what I & others have lamented about Shimano's balky downshifting when the drivetrain is under a serious load ...
Yet, the final/easiest (IMO) solution which he may need to consider at some point in the future is a set of Campagnolo shifters (with or without Campagnolo deraillers/etc.) ...

Since I think that Shimano makes some of the best components, and because I know the rest of a Shimano drivetrain can work with Campagnolo's shifters, I don't see why anyone who isn't a Flatlander should be resigned to either suffering with Shimano shifters or paying a premium for Campagnolo components -- why not use the best of all possibilities?
post #17 of 31

Re: Shimano 105

GT, it sounds to me like something is wrong with these Performance bikes. I'd say return the bike immediately. Don't try adjusting anything, because if you fiddle around Performance could try to place blame on you. You just spent $2000 for a new bike, so you shouldn't need to fix it yourself or spend more money on campy shifters to modify your new bike. If you've ridden Shimano-equipped road bikes, you know how they are supposed to work.

Backing up a minute, from your description of the problem, I can't tell if the chain is skipping while the bike is in gear, ie, jumping on the same cog, or if it tries to shift on it's own when heavy load is applied and ends up between gears. Also, can't tell if the problem occurs when you're trying to shift under load, or if the skipping starts when you're not touching the lever. The more precisely you can describe your issue to the mechanic, the better the chance of a quick and accurate diagnosis and fix.

Also, these problems should occur on a flat parking lot under load. You shouldn't need to touch the brakes for any reason, just stand up and accelerate and pay attention to what happens. There's nothing special about hills after all. If a mechanic can't duplicate the problem on a parking lot, it makes solving the issue difficult, and also makes your complaint suspect.
post #18 of 31

Re: Shimano 105

I doubt that the 105 coponents are the problem as they have been proven over time to be good components. And since the bikes have been assembled by different wrenches I doubt that it is the wrenches. That leaves the bike, but there have been two bikes and both had the same problem. Therefore, I would say that it is probably the design of the bike. Is it possible that when this happens, the frame flexes just enough to put a little more pull into your shift cable, throwing the gearing out of adjustment? The gearing tolerances on the 10-speed 105 are closer than on the old 9-speed. Do you really hammer up those steep grades where this happens? I would return the bike and start looking for a frame with less flex.
post #19 of 31

Re: Shimano 105

Could this be something subtle and hard to see by eye like chain a bit too long or too short, or the cage a bit out of alignment? Shifting mechanisms just aren't rocket science and IMO alfeng has some good ideas. Nothing I buy is ever quite perfect, so I mess with everything. OTOH, if the bike is to be returned, now's the time.
post #20 of 31
Thread Starter 

Re: Shimano 105

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfeng View Post
Ya wanna know what's really funny...

It's when there are numerous people posting in a thread and only ONE of those people get a different impression than everyone else, THEN argue about how EVERYONE ELSE is wrong EXCEPT FOR himself. The odds are that when EVERYONE disagrees with you, YOU are the one who is wrong.

On the contrary, YOU should hold on to YOUR perception of communication skills, or better yet, DON'T.
Okay, here's my "different impression" ...

I've said it before, but there are so many people in denial that you may choose to ignore it, too ...

The problem probably stems from the "dwell" which Shimano engineers designed in their STI shifters which is not a factor for Flatlanders OR for people who are willing to unweight the drivetrain when downshifting ...

The balky downshifting apparently has been exacerbated by the floating upper pulley which some Shimano's engineer introduced with their 10-speed rear derailleurs ... but, the effects of the floating upper pulley can be mitigated with the most recent asymmetrical chain which Shimano introduced with the 7900 DA group.

IMO, you have a couple of options:

The first may not be beneficial -- swap the lower pulley which doesn't float with the one that does. If it is better, then either leave it as is, or put the floating pulley back in the upper position BUT with a washer to prevent it from floating.

The second option will work -- it involves replacing the Shimano shifters with 10-speed Campagnolo (non-QS!) shifters ... by my reckoning, you will have to either hubbub.com the rear derailleur cable anchoring to achieve 10-speed Shimano indexing OR buy a SRAM Road rear derailleur OR change the 10-speed cassette to a 9-speed cassette.

If you change to a 9-speed cassette, you will want to change the front derailleur to a 9-speed Shimano front derailleur.

You should be able to sell the 10-speed Shimano shifters for about the amount which the 10-speed Campagnolo shifters will cost. You do not want either the Campagnolo Xenon-based QS shifters or the yet to be released Campagnolo Power Tech shifters.

If you are committed to keeping the Shimano shifters AND/OR swapping the pulley wheels doesn't have a beneficial effect, then you should consider ponying up for one of the new, asymmetrical Shimano chains.
Okay, what is your point? I never argued with anyone. Clearly there is an issue with the bicycle and NOT the Shimano componentry. I'm pretty sure that has been established.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davereo View Post
If you do bail out on them and get your money back. I own both the Caad9 and Synapse you mentioned and your evaluation of the caad 9 is spot on. The Synapse is a lot more comfortable to ride and performs well. Hopefully you get all your problems resolved without having to resort to this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davereo View Post
This may be good advice for someone to entertain if they have just purchased a used bike. Dude GT is struggling with a brand new purchase that is still under warranty.
Okay, indeed there WAS a problem with the bicycle, from the factory (I brought it to Performance today).

The derailleur cables are routed through the body, and whoever installed them from the factory crossed them, which was causing one of them to pull on the other, which was stopping the derailleur from working correctly.

They had agreed to upgrade me to an Ultegra rear derailleur for the difference in price between it and a 105. They installed the Ultegra and still had the same problem. This issue was discovered when the tech was pulling on the derailleur cable and the other one was moving.

I was frustrated, but the guys really tried to help me out, and I left the bicycle with them so they could re-route the cables and everything. They called later this afternoon and told me that 3 people had ridden it and the error seemed to be fixed.

While I was there, I did find my "replacement." There was a GT Series 1 with all Ultegra, plus carbon seat-stays and fork. It also had those nice wheels with the "flat-bladed" spokes. It was a very nice bike. They also had a GT Carbon right next to it (in the same size) and I had to compare the weights for myself. Honestly, the aluminum/carbon did not feel any heavier than the full-carbon one did. The full-carbon model had 105 and cheaper wheels.

If things don't work out, I'm going to be coming home with the GT Series 1 with the Ultegra group. I'll probably have to fork out another $100-$200, but that's okay. Regardless, I'm still hoping everything goes well with my Schwinn, because that's the bike I really want.
post #21 of 31

Re: Shimano 105

Awesome that is great news. With internal cable routing you just couldn't see what was happening. Though there are some bikes and setups were the cross over cabling is fine, obviously not this one.
post #22 of 31
Thread Starter 

Re: Shimano 105

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKOS View Post
Awesome that is great news. With internal cable routing you just couldn't see what was happening. Though there are some bikes and setups were the cross over cabling is fine, obviously not this one.
With all the issues I've had, I'm pretty resentful of the bike, so I'm still trying to decide whether I even want it back. I guess the deciding factor will be when I ride it.

I am having a particular distaste for Performance Bike, however. My wife spotted my old bike sitting there on the sales floor with a $1399 sticker on it. They're selling it as a new bike! It's clearly been used, as there is wear on the tires, and the bike is on the dusty side. I mean, there's no disclosure on the bike that it's used or anything. I'm almost tempted to report them for fraud. It makes me wonder what people buying. I know my bike was new, only because the wrapping was still on it...
post #23 of 31

Re: Shimano 105

Good to finally get this solved. It was a shifting problem due to faulty setup, which indicates to me that the setup is done on all the bikes in China, and that Performance really doesn't do much of any pre-delivery checks, other than airing the tires and putting on the price tags.

Not sure why you'd be "resentful" of the bike now that it's fixed. Nothing here was the fault of "the bike", just the dummies who set it up, and then Performance bike who sold it to you without even giving it a real test ride.

Agree Performance wouldn't be my first choice for buying a bike, but you did save money. Going to a real LBS that sells a major brand, having a real mechanic to set up and check everything, and then giving the bike a good test ride would have prevented the hassles you faced.

Here's the question: how much is Quality Assurance worth to you? Is it worth say $100-200 to have a professional mechanic check all this out for you before delivery, to prevent the disappointments and time/gasoline wasted, or would you rather roll the dice, save the money, and hope it's OK?

I'd keep the bike, now that you've been through all the aggrevation getting it fixed. Hopefully you'll get many enjoyable miles out of it now. But don't be too surprised if you start having wheel problems after the first few thousand miles. Don't know what wheels you've got on your Schwinn, but in my experience lots of the bargain bikes save money by using quickly-built wheelsets that don't hold up very well.
post #24 of 31

Re: Shimano 105

The best quality assurance is to take the bike home, take it apart, and reassemble it right. I like Performance for their selection of replacement parts and gear, but I don't think that I would be ready to buy a complete bike from them. Not only from your experience but from others who have had issues with bikes from there.
post #25 of 31

Re: Shimano 105

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT Fanatic View Post
With all the issues I've had, I'm pretty resentful of the bike, so I'm still trying to decide whether I even want it back. I guess the deciding factor will be when I ride it.

I am having a particular distaste for Performance Bike, however. My wife spotted my old bike sitting there on the sales floor with a $1399 sticker on it. They're selling it as a new bike! It's clearly been used, as there is wear on the tires, and the bike is on the dusty side. I mean, there's no disclosure on the bike that it's used or anything. I'm almost tempted to report them for fraud. It makes me wonder what people buying. I know my bike was new, only because the wrapping was still on it...
How many miles did you ride the first Parmount that you exchanged?

AND, other than dust & tire wear, what is its cosmetic condition which would differentiate it from a DEMO?

I'm just asking.
post #26 of 31
Thread Starter 

Re: Shimano 105

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfeng View Post
How many miles did you ride the first Parmount that you exchanged?

AND, other than dust & tire wear, what is its cosmetic condition which would differentiate it from a DEMO?

I'm just asking.
I probably rode approximately 200-300 miles on it. Aside from dust and wear, it was in stellar condition, save for the cranks, which had "circles" ground into the metal where the pedals were. I touched it up with paint. Apparently, one of the corners of the pedals was gouging into the crank. I guess that's what I get for putting $10 pedals on it...

Well, no longer my problem...
post #27 of 31

Re: Shimano 105

That's a real shame about the 105. I just bought a brand new Bulls Harrier 1 with the 105 groupset. The groupset itself is nice and reliable, only issues I have had is the gear shifting starting to ghost shift ( but just tweaked the derailleur and it all works). I'm a total beginner, but I would recommend sticking with it.
post #28 of 31
Thread Starter 

Re: Shimano 105

Quote:
Originally Posted by sufiankane View Post
That's a real shame about the 105. I just bought a brand new Bulls Harrier 1 with the 105 groupset. The groupset itself is nice and reliable, only issues I have had is the gear shifting starting to ghost shift ( but just tweaked the derailleur and it all works). I'm a total beginner, but I would recommend sticking with it.
Good news is the 105 was NOT the issue. At first, we thought it was just a bad batch of 105, but it turns out that on my bike, the derailleur cables got crossed when the wires were routed. The cables are internally routed. This was causing one cable to pull up on the other, which was not allowing the derailleur to operate correctly. These issues came from the factory where the bikes were partially assembled...

I had this fixed, and all is right with the world.
post #29 of 31

Re: Shimano 105

That's a new one. Congrats on finally figuring that out, now get out and ride!
post #30 of 31

Re: Shimano 105

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT Fanatic View Post
Good news is the 105 was NOT the issue. At first, we thought it was just a bad batch of 105, but it turns out that on my bike, the derailleur cables got crossed when the wires were routed. The cables are internally routed. This was causing one cable to pull up on the other, which was not allowing the derailleur to operate correctly. These issues came from the factory where the bikes were partially assembled...

I had this fixed, and all is right with the world.

that's like the best episode of Punk'd you could dream of...
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