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Are we there yet? - Page 69

post #1021 of 1180

I agree with you swampy.

 

I mention CTL a lot in my posts only because it kind of paints an overview of how much training I am doing (or lack of training) rather than writing paragraphs of details. Same goes for when someone else tells me their CTL and I get a very big picture glimpse at their training load without going into all the finite details. Sort of a big picture hint of Training or Detraining.

 

So I agree that it has nothing at all to do with performance.

 

js, I hope you can kick this thing soon.


Edited by Felt_Rider - 3/5/12 at 4:31am
post #1022 of 1180

felt, swampy, I hear what you guys are saying about CTL but when you do not have the great performance numbers, need something else to fall back on. :(

 

I feel better today but still in no condition to ride and I can not miss work so here I am with comtrex keeping me in check for now.  It happens every year and they never end fast.  They just die on their own terms, these colds of mine.  

 

You did make me think though as the guilt factor of not riding is a bit much but more of that is cause of the advance I made since my injury and never think being back here.  The truth though is I need an event for all this cycling.  Even if it just keeping up with the boy in CP.  To just ride to ride more and only my FTP to keep me warm does not make much sense when you are putting in 15 hours a week.  The "being healthy" thing is fine but I can do a lot less and be just as good in shape.

 

So the quest for the chosen event continues...

 

-js

post #1023 of 1180



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsirabella View Post

felt, swampy, I hear what you guys are saying about CTL but when you do not have the great performance numbers, need something else to fall back on. :(

 

I feel better today but still in no condition to ride and I can not miss work so here I am with comtrex keeping me in check for now.  It happens every year and they never end fast.  They just die on their own terms, these colds of mine.  

 

You did make me think though as the guilt factor of not riding is a bit much but more of that is cause of the advance I made since my injury and never think being back here.  The truth though is I need an event for all this cycling.  Even if it just keeping up with the boy in CP.  To just ride to ride more and only my FTP to keep me warm does not make much sense when you are putting in 15 hours a week.  The "being healthy" thing is fine but I can do a lot less and be just as good in shape.

 

So the quest for the chosen event continues...

 

-js


 

Great performance numbers - it all depends on what you compare your numbers too. If you compare to the Pros then we're all decidedly craptacular. If we compare to the average Joe in the street then we'll all look pretty good. Most of us aspire to ride better than we do and maybe we'll get there some day... maybe we won't - but if we don't try we'll end up sitting on the pot one day and in a moment of boredom think "I wish I would have..."

 

15 hours per week is a few hours more than I typically do. 15 hours is a lot of time. If you think you can do less and you honestly believe you can be in just as good shape then maybe it's time to rethink the training a little bit. Sometimes all it takes is a little tweaking like keeping some of the longish L3 rides and adding some L5 and substituting another session for something decidedly less endurance based.

 

Maybe I just look at things a little differently, or maybe in this case I'm just plain wrong (it wouldn't be the first time), but I tend to think when increases in performance become small then it's pretty much time to move on to the next planned training phase or at a minimum take a look at why those increases plateaued. Yes, you need a good base and lots of L3 and L4 never hurt (ok, it hurts when you're doing enough of it - or when you do too much and genuinely over train) but there's always going to be a time where you need to ride faster for shorter intervals in order to ride faster at longer distances. Sometimes that shorter and faster is much shorter and, at first, not that much faster and hurts quite a bit but I believe at some point it just needs to be done.

 

As for the event, just think about cycling and what you like most about it. When you have that answer seek an event that offers that. It might be a metric century, it might be a midweek smash-fest around central park (aka evening crit). Take a long look at some of the larger cycling clubs websites that are in your area - there's probably a fair number of events that you didn't even think existed.

 

If keeping up with the faster lads in CP is a goal, you have a good base of L3/4 under the belt - time to hit the shorter efforts. If you're thinking about a crit - L5 and L6 is an must...

 

... and if you think that straying away from "endurance" training isn't for you, think of things this way. What is your L5 power now, will likely, after about 6 to 8 weeks of refocused training containing lots of L5, be somewhere within what will be L4 then. Not so much a paradigm shift in training, just a moving of the goal posts a little.

 

 

post #1024 of 1180

The following is not to stir up controversy since my goals are very unique compared to the majority on this forum, but below is the training load I have been following for a number of months. The weightlifting schedule has been the same for about 20 years and I have 30 years in lifting as a total. 10 years competing. I am not able to lift the former competitive weight with too many injuries and issues.

 

I am very pleased with my current training load. While some days I cannot hit the intended goals for the most part I have been able to hit my goals, which are very unique since I am a weightlifter that enjoys cycling training. Since I no longer compete in lifting and have no aspirations of competing in cycling I can play by my own rule book for training and recovery.

 

I feel like things are progressing despite my recreational status. smile.gif

Current CTL: 85

Watts/kg: 2.78 redface.gif (pretty heavy for my height, plus a low FTP)

Goal: to have good cross fitness.

 

Weightlifting

Monday A.M. – Legs

Tuesday A.M. – Chest

Wednesday A.M. – Back

Thursday A.M. – Shoulders

Friday A.M. – Arms

Saturday A.M. – off

Sunday A.M. - off

 

Cycling

Monday P.M. – 2 x 30 rollers ( 1st 30 @ 0.95 IF, 2nd 30 @ 0.85 IF)

Tuesday P.M. – 2 x 30 rollers ( 1st 30 @ 0.95 IF, 2nd 30 @ 0.91 IF)

Wednesday P.M. – 1 x 60 rollers (@ 0.88 IF)

Thursday P.M. – 2 x 30 rollers ( 1st 30 @ 0.95 IF, 2nd 30 @ 0.91 IF)

Friday P.M. – off

Saturday A.M. – outdoor 4 to 5 hour ride with time in L2 to L4, big blocks of L3 (2 x 60 if weather is bad)

Sunday A.M. – outdoor 2 x 60  (@ 0.88 IF for total)

 

 

 

post #1025 of 1180

.....I suppose in summary of my previous post with the schedule being that I am finally getting to my "happy place" with understanding what I want to achieve and get into a training routine that I really like and could see maintaining for years (minus life interuptions that occur at times). So for the topic of the thread, "Are we there yet?", I believe I am there where I want to be for routine and I love routine. It is not a path to race or anything else. It is simply finding a set training routine that I enjoy on a daily basis. It is probably full of faults, but it suits me.

 

Now is the time to enjoy. Fortunately for me I enjoy training in the manner listed in my schedule above and from that I am improving. Crazy that doing top of L4 last night was enjoyable, but what a nice way to blow off some steam after a stressful workday or to get out for a 5 hour ride on Saturday.

 

I suppose I will continue to lurk and see how swampy does in the upcoming epic events and js if you jump into some events this year. Guys its been fun chatting with you. I hope you keep up the good work.

post #1026 of 1180

felt, that is once nice training load.  How old are you?  Even before my accident I could not do a double time schedule of morning and night workouts.  Nice dude and your training load on the bike is building well.

 

swampy, Now that I have been playing this game long enough I am kind of starting to figure out what works for me.  I have found that if you are going to do the trainer, L3 or SST is the best way to go.  Longer rides of the > 2 hours with lots of L3 and some SST mixed in.  For the L4 or higher which to me are the 10 min variety or lower are best done outdoors.  I have found I get my best efforts and numbers for that type of training outdoors.  This was always the plan for 2012.

 

I agree 100% based on my experience even if I could do 230 watts for 2 hours or 220 watts for 3 hours that unless I can keep up for those shorter intervals it will not be enough especially for the crits and hammerfests.  Last year though I had probably my best year outdoors which I think came down to single focus on cycling and the loss of 20lbs.  It was not due to better watts output as I had better watts output when I was a bit heavier.

 

March is here now and the races will start soon and the morning hammerfests will start.  This bug has really put a big wrench in my training but I will not be deterred.  I will get outdoors come end of this month and work on the other parts of the engine and see how I fare against the folks there.  In addition I will show up at my old coaches rides again and see how I do.  This is a big test as I used to suck at those sessions and is to me like smoking man was to SOT.   If I can do well and see my numbers look pretty good than I will do a race.  I really want TT to be my event but I rather see what I am good at and than pick what best suits me.

 

As for the bug, been hell.  Everyday I think it is gone and it just hangs on.  I have not rode for a week now and not sure riding or not makes a difference.  Last night I really felt it was done and this morning feels like it is still around.  Going to the doc Friday if I can not beat it.  This one has been a real doozy.

 

-js

post #1027 of 1180
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsirabella View Post

felt, that is once nice training load.  How old are you?  Even before my accident I could not do a double time schedule of morning and night workouts.  Nice dude and your training load on the bike is building well.

 

swampy, Now that I have been playing this game long enough I am kind of starting to figure out what works for me.

 

-js


 

Getting close to 49

The thing about lifting is that I have so many years of experience that I am really efficient with my training time. I am not that efficient with the cycling training, but I am getting to a routine that works with the dual load. I have a really good understanding of what my body can handle, recovery and especially nutrition. All of that helps juggle the two. Crossfit is all the rage in my area so I am sort of in that happy place. I go into my older years with pretty good strength and my cardio fitness continues to improve.

 

I think your statement above is what I am getting at. You not only find what is working for you, but hopefully enjoy it as well. It is not like I want to become close minded to more efficient means, but when I consider those options it begins to redirect me from the routine that enjoy. I will continue to keep an open mind about training because I enjoy learning new things, but I am now set on how I want to train. In other words I feel like my quest that I started by joining this forum in  2004 is nearing its end as I settle into the routine I want to keep for a while.

 

It seems to me js that you enjoy the routine that you are in. It seems to be working well  for you. I hope you continue to enjoy and grow in it.

Of course time changes and so do routines.......

 

 


 

 

post #1028 of 1180

felt, Guess we were posting at the same time, just saw your post.  It sounds like to me you are there dude.  I really wish you continued success and more important fun!  2012 is my year of make it or break it so I will keep posting this season and than probably ride out into the sunset and lurk as you say.

 

-js

post #1029 of 1180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felt_Rider View Post

Now is the time to enjoy. Fortunately for me I enjoy training in the manner listed in my schedule above and from that I am improving. Crazy that doing top of L4 last night was enjoyable, but what a nice way to blow off some steam after a stressful workday or to get out for a 5 hour ride on Saturday.

 

I suppose I will continue to lurk and see how swampy does in the upcoming epic events and js if you jump into some events this year. Guys its been fun chatting with you. I hope you keep up the good work.



... and "enjoyment", in whatever form that comes in, is what it's all about. The pleasure of doing something you really like and the gratification of doing it better than you've done it before.

 

Don't lurk...

 

 

post #1030 of 1180

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsirabella View Post

swampy, Now that I have been playing this game long enough I am kind of starting to figure out what works for me.  I have found that if you are going to do the trainer, L3 or SST is the best way to go.  Longer rides of the > 2 hours with lots of L3 and some SST mixed in.  For the L4 or higher which to me are the 10 min variety or lower are best done outdoors.  I have found I get my best efforts and numbers for that type of training outdoors.  This was always the plan for 2012.

 

I agree 100% based on my experience even if I could do 230 watts for 2 hours or 220 watts for 3 hours that unless I can keep up for those shorter intervals it will not be enough especially for the crits and hammerfests.  Last year though I had probably my best year outdoors which I think came down to single focus on cycling and the loss of 20lbs.  It was not due to better watts output as I had better watts output when I was a bit heavier.

 

March is here now and the races will start soon and the morning hammerfests will start.  This bug has really put a big wrench in my training but I will not be deterred.  I will get outdoors come end of this month and work on the other parts of the engine and see how I fare against the folks there.  In addition I will show up at my old coaches rides again and see how I do.  This is a big test as I used to suck at those sessions and is to me like smoking man was to SOT.   If I can do well and see my numbers look pretty good than I will do a race.  I really want TT to be my event but I rather see what I am good at and than pick what best suits me.

 

As for the bug, been hell.  Everyday I think it is gone and it just hangs on.  I have not rode for a week now and not sure riding or not makes a difference.  Last night I really felt it was done and this morning feels like it is still around.  Going to the doc Friday if I can not beat it.  This one has been a real doozy.

 

-js


Most folk get better numbers outdoors than in - so that your L4 or higher intervals give you better numbers outdoors is no surprise. Better cooling and a few more things to take your mind off the pain help lots...

 

If you ride a flat crit with big, wide sweeping corners that you can pedal through (or nearly pedal through) then you don't need massive numbers to keep in touch with the bunch. The tighter the turns or the hillier the circuit, the the default requirement for extra bouts of L5 and L6 increase.

 

The TT is something that I think that probably suit you. You seem to like grinding out big steady efforts on the trainer so the mental fortitude required to ride a TT is probably there but the TT is a deceptively simple event that's rather evil too... Ride a few - you'll get what I mean. Muhahahahaha ;) The TT also rewards preparation too - there's lots you can do prior to an event that will directly effect the result and based off what you've posted in the past about your prep work for the stuff that you eat far out weighs the effort made by many on getting TT prep done.

 

Bugs, colds, flu... they happen and even if you stay off the bike a few weeks they never seem to ultimately put as big a dent in training as they seem to do at the time that you're off the bike.
 

 

 

post #1031 of 1180
Quote:
Originally Posted by swampy1970 View Post



... and "enjoyment", in whatever form that comes in, is what it's all about. The pleasure of doing something you really like and the gratification of doing it better than you've done it before.

 

Don't lurk...

 

 


Okay, so I am back already smile.gif

 

Did my first extended mile test yesterday on a rather flat to low rolling hill course. I opted not to throw in the mountain climb and it turned out to be a good choice because a friend that joined me in the ride yesterday really started to struggle about 30 miles from the end. More on that later.

 

So yesterday I was able to test out my attitude, my discipline of keeping my power aerobic and steady forward motion, bike comfort and nutrition and fluid intake.

 

 

1. Attitude - really good, even in the last miles my mind was in good spirit and ready to take on more miles. Once my mind goes so will the body

2. Discipline - really good, when we approached hills or in the temptations on the flats to hammer I kept my power output submaximal.

3. Bike comfort - overall good, but I had some chaffing in the shorts that was really annoying and became very obvious in the hot shower later that evening. Those are my best long distance bibs so the chaffing was odd and uncomfortable.

4. Nutrition and fluid intake - good to satisfactory, I felt solid throughout the ride, never felt queasy or bloated and never felt as if I was lacking. Unfortunately I had to stop and find the bushes far more than I wanted.

 

I believe had my friend not had some stomach issues we would have made good time. At one of the store stops he drank a Gatorade that did him in. His legs were okay, but he said that he could not overcome the urge to hurl. He managed not to lose it, but really struggled to hold speed on the way back. Another mistake that he made was surging on some sharp rolling hills early in the ride. I told him before we got to those hills I was going to climb them at a slower pace, but for some reason he surged hard. I eventually caught up and he said, "I should not have done that." That was at about mile 30 on the way out. Always seems like you can do those type of things without a cost, but it will eventually play a role later in those long rides.

 

I have had those type of instances of buying something at the store and it have a negative impact soon after. On these long rides I carry all my own solid food/nutrition and only refill with water because I can trust what I carry not to make me sick. Since Hammer Perpetuem goes rancid quickly I will wait until we roll out to mix the first bottle and carry the power in a small vitamin bottle for later in the ride. Yesterday I tried a mix of Perpetuem, egg white protein and maltodextrin only because I ran out of Perpetuem. It worked well and seemed to stay fresh longer.

 

My ride and nutrition are outlined on the report below.

 

Ride report http://thecyclingaddiction.blogspot.com/2012/03/brewery-to-old-federal-road-100-mile.html

 

Overall I feel very good about my fitness in the start of this 2012 season. I feel confident that I could have performed even better.

 

 

 

post #1032 of 1180

Sounds like you had fun. I'm about to head out now for a few hours :)

 

As for the perpetuem - it takes a little funky after it starts to get warm but it's apparently good for about 4 hours once it gets to "room temperature" ~ 70F. The unflavored Perpetuem seems to fair the best - with orange vanilla just behind. I hate with a passion the coffee one which I think tastes foul under any circumstance. LOL Personally, I mix it in a Polar Bottle and add lots of ice. If it's a hot day I'll mix it with the ice and put the first bottle I'll drink in the fridge and the rest in the freezer before I have breakfast. 

 

That said, the Ensure seems to be working fantastically and I've switched the regular drink to HEED and only 1 scoop per 22oz bottle. The only problem with the ensure is that the little bottles are uncomfortable in the back pocket unless I sit up a bit more and I don't want to do that... I want my free speed :)

post #1033 of 1180

Ouch. F**k. Brrrrrrr.

 

That just about sums up the ride.

post #1034 of 1180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felt_Rider View Post


Okay, so I am back already smile.gif

 

Did my first extended mile test yesterday on a rather flat to low rolling hill course. I opted not to throw in the mountain climb and it turned out to be a good choice because a friend that joined me in the ride yesterday really started to struggle about 30 miles from the end. More on that later.

 

So yesterday I was able to test out my attitude, my discipline of keeping my power aerobic and steady forward motion, bike comfort and nutrition and fluid intake.

 

 

1. Attitude - really good, even in the last miles my mind was in good spirit and ready to take on more miles. Once my mind goes so will the body

2. Discipline - really good, when we approached hills or in the temptations on the flats to hammer I kept my power output submaximal.

3. Bike comfort - overall good, but I had some chaffing in the shorts that was really annoying and became very obvious in the hot shower later that evening. Those are my best long distance bibs so the chaffing was odd and uncomfortable.

4. Nutrition and fluid intake - good to satisfactory, I felt solid throughout the ride, never felt queasy or bloated and never felt as if I was lacking. Unfortunately I had to stop and find the bushes far more than I wanted.

 

I believe had my friend not had some stomach issues we would have made good time. At one of the store stops he drank a Gatorade that did him in. His legs were okay, but he said that he could not overcome the urge to hurl. He managed not to lose it, but really struggled to hold speed on the way back. Another mistake that he made was surging on some sharp rolling hills early in the ride. I told him before we got to those hills I was going to climb them at a slower pace, but for some reason he surged hard. I eventually caught up and he said, "I should not have done that." That was at about mile 30 on the way out. Always seems like you can do those type of things without a cost, but it will eventually play a role later in those long rides.

 

I have had those type of instances of buying something at the store and it have a negative impact soon after. On these long rides I carry all my own solid food/nutrition and only refill with water because I can trust what I carry not to make me sick. Since Hammer Perpetuem goes rancid quickly I will wait until we roll out to mix the first bottle and carry the power in a small vitamin bottle for later in the ride. Yesterday I tried a mix of Perpetuem, egg white protein and maltodextrin only because I ran out of Perpetuem. It worked well and seemed to stay fresh longer.

 

My ride and nutrition are outlined on the report below.

 

Ride report http://thecyclingaddiction.blogspot.com/2012/03/brewery-to-old-federal-road-100-mile.html

 

Overall I feel very good about my fitness in the start of this 2012 season. I feel confident that I could have performed even better.

 

 

 


I think the items in bold and underline caused his Gatorade faux-pas rather than the gatorade itself. Anytime you put yourself in a bit in a pain cave you also put yourself a bit at risk too stomach woes if you suddenly chug a bottle on something sugary. If you do it day in and day out then it's not so bad but for us weekend warriors that put themselves in that state once every so often on a long ride it's a whole different ball game. I've been there and done that and unless I've finished a ride, I won't drink more than 8oz of liquid in one go at a rest stop - the last time I did that was during the Death Ride in 2006 after 3 passes - and I made a smell in one of the porta potties for 3 asses.

 

 

post #1035 of 1180
Quote:
Originally Posted by swampy1970 View Post

 I want my free speed :)



Absolutely, Absolutely!!!!!

 

....steps up on the soapbox

 

I have learned from my mistakes and I now see it when I ride with others on a long distance course or in any training ride, but I learned it from owning and using a power meter. It took me a couple of seasons to really sink into my thick skull, but now it is a pet peeve when I ride with someone and that fails to take FULL ADVANTAGE of FREE SPEED.

 

I would say that even with some of the veteran cyclists in my group they will coast or barely pedal large portions on stretches of road that are slightly down gradient and at times down gradient with a tailwind. That just makes me want to scream outloud, "STOP COASTING!"  Why not shorten the time with free speed at low wattage?

 

I guess I have just become more content with training solo these days. I suppose it is really hard to find someone to share the miles with that have the same thoughts and goals.

 

....steps down from the soapbox

 

by the way now days if someone wants to ride with me and they pull in front of me and starts coasting expect that I will immediately come back around and keep pace.

 

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