support for Ultegra 9 speed

Quote:

Originally Posted by vspa 

before i keep buying cassettes and accessories for Ultegra 9 speed, how long does Shimano plans on supporting them ? in 10 years time im going to find replacement STI levers for example ?

Hi vspa, SRAM cassettes also work with Shimano RD's, but not sure about 10 years time. 8 speed has been supported for more than 20 years.  Perhaps continue with what you have, but a new cassette, and when the electric groups have finally matured get one of those. They will be at least 10spd and probably 11spd or more.

With the 11spd or more, lets hope they don't change the cassette width (campag 11spd has stayed the same width as there 10spd), because moving to 11spd or more groups would then need a new frame unless you can expand the rear stays, which you can with steel frames and maybe even Ti frames, but not Al or CF frames.

Perhaps in 10 years they will be using internal geared 14spd (or 16spd or even 20spd) hubs with satellite (wireless) electric STI shifters     Yes, this sounds like the way to go to me ... low maintence, less chain links required so stronger chains can be used, smoother changes, you can change gear without pedaling. 

Just dreaming ...  :-)
 

Consumables (cassettes, rings and chains) can still be found, and will be for a while yet.  Shimano still makes 7 speed freewheels and chains, for heaven's sake.  But they certainly aren't availbale in the same numbers as they used to.

But 9 speed Ultegra/DA levers have already been out of production for a while now.  To get a new one you'd have to find a bike shop owned by a compulsive hoarder.

As for 10 years time, you would need a crystal ball. Not even Shimano know what will happen in 10 years.  Di2 was only a twinkle in some engineer's eye that long ago. Being a huge company with big engineering departments and manufacuring facilities mean they can act on decisions in a much much shorter time frame.

As far as cost is concerned, you've already gotten off lightly by virtue of the fact that you will have skipped at least 2 generations of Shimano by the time you upgrade.

If you plan on sticking with the 9-spd for a while, you might want to stock up on brifters via eBay.  Otherwise, it's probably wise to heed what tafi said and consider upgrading.  Unfortunately Shimano designs their brifters to be unrepairable and to be replaced if they go all pear shaped.  Someone on the board likes to talk about pairing Campy brifters with Shimano drive trains (his name sounds a lot like Alf Ang), so he might be able to tell you what Campy brifters would work.  Using Campy brifters, however, would require adapting to new ergonomics and shifting, which isn't always a possibility for a given rider.

I think upgrading or plucking eBay's chords are your best bet.

Hi vspa, I believe the 10spd 5600, 6600 and 7800 shifters are compatiable with your 9spd cassette, RD, and FD   :-)

So, if that is the case then I wouldn't be concerned about your 9spd shifters either  :-) 

Also, the 9 and 10spd cassettes are the same width, so theoretically with a 10spd shifter you could use your 9spd RD.  Just a thought   :-)

Yes alfeng, can tell you all about using a Campag shifter with a Shimano RD.  I believe that he does this himself   :-)

FWIW.  My first Campagnolo-Shimano mix-and-match was a 10-speed Campagnolo shifter & an XT 750 rear derailleur just because I wanted to see what the result would be.   When dry-shifting (i.e., what 'I' call checking the shifting sans chain) the rear derailleur, it looked like the configured the mismatch was very close to 8-speed Shimano indexing ... 

So, I put an 8-speed Shimano XTR (12-30 -- unramped cogs) cassette on the wheel & it was "perfect" ...  

At about the same time, thanks to SANTANA, I learned that the hubbub.com rear derailleur cable connection was used by Tandem riders to recreate 9-speed Shimano indexing -- it was the "solution" for Campagnolo users who wanted to use a cassette whose largest cog had more than 29t.   THAT sounded like an option which I wanted to use ...

The hubbub connection worked! 

And, subsequently, the hubbub'd Shimano 9-speed rear derailleur became my favored connection when mated with a Campagnolo shifter until I speculated that the geometry of the then-new 10-speed Shimano Road rear derailleur might be equivalent to the geometry of a hubbub'd 9-speed Shimano rear derailleur.

• I ponied up for a 105 rear derailleur (why pay more on a spec?) ...
• as far as I am concerned, 'my' speculation was-and-is correct ... 
• but, OTHERS have insisted that the geometry of the 9-speed & 10-speed Shimano Road derailleurs is the same ...
  • it may be, but I don't think so
    • similarly, I don't know what OTHERS are doing when they say they have interchanged 10-speed Shimano shifters with 9-speed derailleurs, and vice-versa ...
      • whatever works, right?

      • but, it may work for them because ramped Shimano (and, SRAM) cassettes are VERY FORGIVING as long the chain isn't too wide (i.e., you don't want to use an 8-speed Shimano chain on a 9-speed Shimano drivetrain)

    • by my reckoning (which is confirmed by the Juden table [below]), 9-speed Shimano indexing can be achieved when a 10-speed Shimano shifter + 9-speed Shimano rear derailleur if the cable is attached to a 9-speed Shimano rear derailleur at 9 o'clock ... 

I can't remember whose post-or-reference originally pointed me to this table (by Chris Juden):

What few seem to understand when looking at the table is that "old Dura Ace" refers to attaching the rear derailleur cable at 9 o'clock -- essentially, the opposite of using a hubbub.com connection -- and, not to using an SIS Dura Ace rear derailleur.

• BTW.  By my reckoning, if you hook up a 10-speed SRAM shifter to a 9-speed Shimano rear derailleur using the "old Dura Ace" connnection, then it should (?!?) result in 9-speed Shimano indexing; but, maybe not (the table certainly does not suggest viability) ...
• BTW2.  SRAM is probably stuck with 10-speed for at least another year-or-two because Shimano's pending 11-speed drivetrains have SRAM's R&D in limbo until they (SRAM) learns what the 11-speed Shimano indexing is ...
  • SRAM's R&D is apparently still scrambling to come up with a new shape for their Road shifters even though they should, IMO, have had a few potential designs in the wings as soon they say Campagnolo's 11-speed shifters ...

The bottom line is that 9-speed Shimano indexing should be a viable option for many years to come if you aren't wedded to using 9-speed Shimano shifters ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafi 

As for 10 years time, you would need a crystal ball. Not even Shimano know what will happen in 10 years.  Di2 was only a twinkle in some engineer's eye that long ago. Being a huge company with big engineering departments and manufacuring facilities mean they can act on decisions in a much much shorter time frame.

I don't know what the lead time is for Shimano's R&D, but they probably have begun working on several ideas which may not come to the market for another 10+ years -- some ideas may die on the vine & others may be resurrections of ideas which should have been abandoned (e.g., pnuematic shifting could be resurrected if someone from that 'team' ascends to Chief Engineer status!).

Another option you have is to upgrade one bike to 105 10 speed. IMO 105 10 speed is just as good if not better than ultegra 9 speed. Then you can use the parts removed from the bike to keep your 2nd bike going.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-105-5700-5-Piece-Road-Group-New-/120850556909?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c234127ed

Your table came from this excellent article

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946