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Weight training and cycling. - Page 3

post #31 of 53
Thread Starter 

Yeah, makes sense. I just have a hard time not going balls to the wall at all times. I have literally pushed myself to puking while doing wind sprints. My wife says that I'm insane. She may be right!

post #32 of 53

DL->There is a time to push yourself that hard (hopefully during a race or important event for you).  First get the miles and time in before you start doing the high end stuff.  Trust me if you have the time and can do 3-4 hours at L3/SST mix, you be surprised how close you will be to puking also.

 

My wife says the same thing and there is a bit of truth to it.  Pushing yourself is great, pushing yourself to a point that you hurt yourself and do perm damage is stupid.  Remember we do not get paid for this and you be surprised how fast things can fall apart if you can not work and do the things that keeps our lives going.  I came pretty close to learning that lesson the hard way!

 

-js

post #33 of 53

Congrats on the weight lose :) To become a good hill Climber according to professional riders you need to have 2lbs of weight per inch of height, so for someone's height at 5ft 10" they should weigh 140lbs, This is not an easy goal for everyone, my advice to you is a lighter bike does help a lot, pure training on hills i.e going up mountains, I used to be in the 200lbs also the more weight you drop the easier hill climbs become, be the weight from your bike or yourself, Weight training I find is just an image and it does not really improve cycling as if you do a lot of it you will add weight which will compromise your performance on hills. The bigger and more hills you climb those hills you ride regularly will become miminal climbs. I hope this help, this is all from personal experience. 

post #34 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHSpeedrom7 View Post

Congrats on the weight lose :) To become a good hill Climber according to professional riders you need to have 2lbs of weight per inch of height, so for someone's height at 5ft 10" they should weigh 140lbs, This is not an easy goal for everyone, my advice to you is a lighter bike does help a lot, pure training on hills i.e going up mountains, I used to be in the 200lbs also the more weight you drop the easier hill climbs become, be the weight from your bike or yourself, Weight training I find is just an image and it does not really improve cycling as if you do a lot of it you will add weight which will compromise your performance on hills. The bigger and more hills you climb those hills you ride regularly will become miminal climbs. I hope this help, this is all from personal experience. 




140? No way. I don't think I could pull that off. I'm very broad shouldered and big boned. I can't wrap my fingers around my wrists. I was 160 in high school and looked like I walked out of a concentration camp.

post #35 of 53

DL-> I know exactly what you mean.  It is why I always say it is much easier to be in that 150-160 range and not need the watts than be in the > 170 and need to generate more watts to get the same watts/kg.  It is a lean man game as you can tell very quickly with a few glances at a cycling magazine.  

 

My wife told me that when I was at 160 I looked like I was going to die.  My mom begged her to get me to eat more.

 

-js

post #36 of 53

I know it's crazy weight to consider getting to, The only way you can get better at hills is to train on them, don't avoid hills in your journey's. If you have a big hill beside you practice going up and down the hill a few days a week and move on to other hills and do the same. 

post #37 of 53

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHSpeedrom7 View Post

I know it's crazy weight to consider getting to, The only way you can get better at hills is to train on them, don't avoid hills in your journey's. If you have a big hill beside you practice going up and down the hill a few days a week and move on to other hills and do the same. 

 

I am certainly not disagreeing with you, but my response is to some of the audience of this thread it is not just going to mountains and hills that makes one better in the hills based on my understanding of training the different metabolic systems and/or building sustainable power output; it is about progressive training as well.

 

A few observations in my world.

 

My current group is split all apart with some training for mountain events and some like myself training with the flattest roads I can find, but either way it goes when I am down on the flats I do not rest or coast downhill. I am constantly pushing with attempt to improve critical power / functional threshold. Yet I have some friends and can testify to myself that in years past I did exclusive training in the mountains and could make it up some challenging gradients and could still keep my power output below 200 watts by using an easier gear. That is until I started learning that it is not just being at the mountains that makes one better. It is pushing onself to improve.

 

Last fall I joined up with a group of friends that focus their training on big climbs and not only was I able to hang with them, I dropped more than half of them and kept the front fast climbers in my view and I am a moose on the bike with body weight to my height. The reason I believe this happened is that I am down on the flats pushing myself and some of them on the mountains doing the same old level they always push. They believe that just because they are at the mountain that they are improving and I believe they are not pushing hard enough while being at the mountains. Sure they have pretty good fitness, but I am not seeing their improvement.

 

So for the Florida cyclists (and like terrain) just because you don't have mountains don't shy away or be timid about going to a mountain event. Plenty of Florida people that only have a bridge overpass as their steepest incline have come up and absolutely destroyed the hearts and egos of those who train exclusively on big climbs on the challenging Six Gap event in Georgia.

 

IMO - it is not so much where you train, rather how you train.

 

Functional threshold and watts/kg can be improved greatly in the mountains, on the flats and indoors in the right manner.

post #38 of 53
Thread Starter 

I like how this thread has turned into a cycling training for newbies thread. icon14.gif

 

I talked to some local cyclists in my area. I'm new to this area and didn't realize there is a large expanse of flat farmland literally 2 miles south of where I have been riding! So I have been riding it 12-20 miles a day every day this week, and it has been a welcome break from the hills that were killing me; however do note that I'm already having an easier time with them.

 

I'm already starting to wish the gadget on my bike were fancier. It tracks my MPH, estimated calories (that has to be far off the mark because it doesn't ask for weight or track heart rate), distance, time, and odometer. I would love to get one that tracks heart rate, cadence, and had GPS. I just don't have the funds to splurge on one currently.

 

However, on the flat areas I'm holding between 14-17mph. Would you consider this to be a slow pace? Moderate? I try to do it in high gears so I'm pumping fast, but I have no clue what my cadence is.

 

Back pain is almost gone now. It's awesome how fast our bodies can adjust to new torture. The only pain I'm contending with now is my old knee injury. It aches, but that's something I have lived and dealt with for years, so nothing new. Just grin and bear it.

 

I have worked my way up to doing about 80 miles a week. Trying to work my way up to 120 miles a week. I think I may be pushing myself a bit much to fast. 80 miles a week is wiping me out. 

 

post #39 of 53

DL, take your time and evolve into this sport/activity. You are doing right by incrementally adding time (miles) to each week, but it works well to keep everything in balance and not try to ramp up too fast unless your genetics allow you to ramp quickly. You can improve your equipment over a period of years as well like the electronic gadgets, but if you have a simple wrist watch to time yourself up particular hills or on a chosen route that will do as a start.

 

For instance I have a power meter, but I also have some routes like an out and back that I see how far I can go in one hour. It is nothing more than racing the clock if environmental conditions (wind & traffic in this case) are similar. Nothing technical. Just push hard for an hour.

 

When I started improving was on this forum lurking and soaking up info from those guys giving out great training advice like the it's killing me thread that has helped a large number members here. Even if you don't own a powermeter you can still start applying the same principles. For a few years I used RPE (perceived effort) based on the chart to gauge my intensity and training time.

 

 

Best wishes

 

post #40 of 53

I am also in a similar predicament as yourself. I am 33, 195 lbs and like to lift weights. Unfortunately, weight lifting and cycling really don't go together, but there are a few things that can make it work. I am in the gym 4 days a week building muscle on a split routine. Its supposed to be 5, but I ignore the leg days as I get plenty of leg work on the bike. 

 

I was in your shoes about a month ago with the hills. I am training for a century so my miles have been adding up each week. It should be noted that I am on the bike 5 days a week. The more you ride, the easier it will be to top those hills and keep pedaling down the other side. I have read most competative cyclists don't use weights during competition training. They use the off season for this. 

 

I am thinking of doing this routine to build a stronger core and build up the legs to get my speed up.

 

 

THE FOUNDATION WORKOUT

Follow Lance Armstrong’s secret training plan to banish back pain and build total body power

Even if you’re not a cyclist, odds are that you spend the bulk of your day hunched in a seat. And that’s a recipe for back pain, says trainer Peter Park, who developed the following workout to help Lance Armstrong strengthen his “posterior chain”—a series of muscles that include the glutes, hamstrings, lower back, and others that stabilize the spine and provide speed and power in sports. Add it to your own weekly fitness plan to shore up your weak spots and build a strong foundation for any athletic endeavor.

WARM UP

Perform one set of each exercise without resting. For example, you’ll do the prescribed number of repetitions of the first exercise, then immediately do the second exercise, and so on. Once you’ve completed all of the exercises, move on to the core circuit.

1. Lateral Band Walk

2. Plank (Hold for 20 seconds 20 reps)

3. Iliotibial Band Roll (6 per side)

4. Groiner (6-8 per side)

5. Hand Crossover (3 reps)

6. Lunge (10 reps per side)

7. Lunge with Side Bend (5 reps) 

8. Elbow-to-Foot Lunge (10 reps per side)

9. Sumo Squat to Stand (2 reps)

10. Kettlebell Goblet Squat (3 reps)

11. Doorway Stretch (1 rep)

 

CORE CIRCUIT

Perform one set of each exercise without resting. For example, you’ll do the prescribed number of repetitions of the first exercise, then immediately do the second exercise, and so on. Once you’ve completed all of the exercises, move on to Strength Circuit 1.

 

1. Side Planks (30 seconds per side)

2. Back Extensions (3 reps)

3. Swiss-Ball Roll (30 reps per side) 

4. Swiss-Ball Pike (20 reps per side)

5. Mountain Climber with Feet on Valslides (30 reps)

6. Wrist-to-Knee Crunches (25 reps)

7. Plank (5-6 reps)

 

STRENGTH CIRCUIT 1

 

Perform one set of each exercise without resting. For example, you’ll do the prescribed number of repetitions of the first exercise, and immediately do the second exercise. Then rest one minute. That’s one circuit. Do a total of 3 circuits, then move on to Strength Circuit 2.

1. Pistol Squat (5 reps each leg)

2. Single-Leg Deadlift (8 reps per side)

 

 

STRENGTH CIRCUIT 2

 

Perform one set of each exercise without resting. For example, you’ll do the prescribed number of repetitions of the first exercise, and immediately do the second exercise. Then rest one minute. That’s one circuit. Do a total of 3 circuits, then move on to the Metabolic Circuit.

 

Single-Leg Squat (12-15 reps)

Lunge (10 reps per side)

 

METABOLIC CIRCUIT

If you’re exhausted, stop here. But if you still have energy, perform this final circuit up to three times, depending on how good you feel. Perform one set of each exercise without resting. For example, you’ll do the prescribed number of repetitions of the first exercise, then immediately do the second exercise, and so on. Once you’ve completed all of the exercises, congratulations—you’ve just trained like Lance Armstrong.

1. Single Arm Dumbbell Swing (25)

2. High Box Jump (15)

3. Single Arm Dumbbell Swing (25)

4. Split Jacks (12 each side)

5. Single Arm Dumbbell Swing (25)

post #41 of 53

Hey there. I have been cycling and bodybuilding (both at the same time) for 30 years, so I believe I am uniquely qualified to answer your question. Simply put, it's not a matter of too much muscle or being to heavy to climb well. It's all about "strength to weight" ratio. In other words, if you weigh 220 and can squat 530 and another guy weighs 150 and can squat 375, then you both have the same S--T-W ratio (you can both squat 2 1/2 times your bodyweight). Bigger guys have a lot of power, but they don't always use it efficiently. You must learn how to use the proper gear on a climb. Chances are you won't be turning the cranks as fast as a "skinny minnie" would, and that's okay! Learn to use your upper body as well, which means to pull on the same side of the bar as your pushing with the pedal. Use that upper body! So, to review: 1. Get as lean as possible (forget about your bodyweight, focus on bodyfat). 2.Work on increasing your stregth overall, but especially in your legs, upper arms, upper/lower back. 3. Do A LOT of hill work and work on different techniques (seated, standing, slow and fast cadence). Good luck!-bikerray

post #42 of 53

I am a biker and a physiotherapist at diamondback mountain bike reviews and in my opinion cycling is enough for trimming down weight. You don't have to go to the gym anymore to lose weight. Riding and proper diet is enough to achieve and maintain your ideal weight.

post #43 of 53

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadLights View Post

Why can't we all just be 20 forever?

 

My back was even better yesterday, but my legs are still barking at me. How often should I be riding? I have been going ever day, but perhaps I need to let my legs have day or two off?

 

I know in weight training rest is required. In this type of exercise is it really needed to let your legs rest? Or can you beat the bike up as often as you want with no ill affect? I don't want to over train at the beginning and burn out.

 

Based on your speed on the flats, 14-17mph, you don't seem to have much power and you have some excess weight. For climbing you either need lower gears or more leg strength.

 

Exercises are good for strength building. Get on your bike and ride the same hill time after time. At the fastest repeat rate you can sustain for the climb. (Your hills seem to be rather short so a bit of experimenting should not take too long.)

 

---

 

Pain is relative. I take 2 pain pills when I wake up, 2 when I start my ride, 2 when I get done, and 2 at bedtime. And I still hurt a lot. And I go out and bicycle everyday - weather permitting.

 

---

 

For guys with your riding experience it is impossible to overtrain.

post #44 of 53

For you to gain muscle mass, you need time to let your muscles repair. This may mean that you need to get off the bike and stay out of the gym a few days out of the week. For me, when I work out my legs I am no where near being able to ride for at least two days afterwards. I workout 4 days a week. Mon, Tues, Thurs, and Fri. This means that for my body to recover and not have either cycling or working out interfere with the other I can only ride Mon- Thurs. Mondays are back day so I generally take it easy on a ride because my lower is tired from the morning and to ride tuesday, I need to relax a bit. If I don't get on the bike thursday, I am going to miss 4 days of riding unless I plan in advance to do a weekend ride and do not work out my legs that week.  I have to eat every two ours (300cal roughly) or I will start loosing weight, and if it is a long ride I have to eat before, during, and after, and then again before bed plus I have to sleep in more than normal. This is all do able, but the only problem for me is that muscular build, low fat equals no cycling tops fit right. 

 

ALSO, YOU MAY BENEFIT FROM THIS.

FOR LEG WORKOUTS ORIENTED MORE TOWARDS CYCLING, TRY TIMED EXERCISES. THIS MEANS WITH SQUATS FOR EXAMPLE, START WITH WEIGHT THAT YOU CAN GET AT LEAST 20 REPS WITH, AND THEN GET A TIMER AND SET IT TO 1 MINUTE. DO AS MANY AS YOU CAN IN THAT TIME AND EACH WEEK YOU ADD THIRTY SECONDS. ONCE YOU GET TO 4 MINUTES ADD TWENTY LBS AND START BACK AT 1 MINUTE. THIS WILL BE THE FIRST EXERCISE OF YOUR WORK OUT. NEXT WILL BE THREE DROP SETS OF LEG EXTENSIONS, THEN 3 SETS 20 REPS OF LEG PRESS. THEN 3 DROP SETS OF LEG CURLS, THEN SINGLE LEG HIGH FEET LEG PRESS 3 SETS OF 20, THEN WEIGHTED BRIDGES, SHOULDERS ON A BENCH WIDE FEET. THEN FINISH WITH CALVES.

post #45 of 53

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecdycis View Post

For you to gain muscle mass, you need time to let your muscles repair.

 

A lot of people say that, but

 

A lot of people here think everyone has enough muscle mass to put out 1000w. No need to build muscle mass.

 

40 miles a week (20 miles twice) at the effort that the OP is doing is not going to cause more damage than can be repaired overnight.

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