Insulin that can be inhaled?

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

Knowing NOTHING technical about the inhaled insulins, my gut tells me this will turn out to be a
poor choice for diabetics needing precise amounts of insulin. How can you predict how much of the
material makes it into your body? The reason I ask is that my dog was given a "shot" nasally. A lot
of it leaked out. the technician said not to worry; they expect much of the medicine to leak out, so
the dose is much larger than necessary in order to protect the animal from disease.

I don't even like inhaling asthma medications, although I do it when necessary. I'll stick to a
pump, thank you very much. And if someone praises the inhaled insulins after they come out, I'll
still say "more power to you; glad you like it". And then I'll pat the pump on my hip... :)

Isn't this just a crutch for needle-phobics, truth be told?

dave

William C Biggs MD wrote:

> Beav,
>
> The inhaled insulins *are* actually getting closer. Release in 2004 is quite possible, depending
> upon the pulmonary studies that are pending. There are antibody questions as well, but most of the
> academic experts feel this is a non-issue.
>
> Nektar (formerly Inhale) uses a dry insulin, and is still the closest to launch. They have
> Exubera, the inhaled insulin: [url="http://www.nektar.com/content/exubera"]http://www.nektar.com/content/exubera[/url]
>
>
> Aradigm has a quite detailed presentation about its wet insulin inhaler in Windows Media or
> Quicktime [url="http://www.aradigm.com/about/overview.html"]http://www.aradigm.com/about/overview.html[/url]
>
>
> Interestingly, Nektar has an inhaled verson of the marijuana analog Marinol as well.
>
> [url="http://www.nektar.com/content/unimed"]http://www.nektar.com/content/unimed[/url]
>
> Marinol is used to increase appetite in certain diseases such as HIV, or cancer chemotherapy.
>
> They also have a treatment for obesity in an early phase, but it is not inhaled.
>
> [url="http://www.nektar.com/content/regeneron"]http://www.nektar.com/content/regeneron[/url]
>
>
> Food for thought,,
>
> William C Biggs, MD
>
>
>
>
>
> "Beav" <beavis.original@ntloxoworld.com> wrote in message
> [url="news:vuaugmcg0mvo2a@news.supernews.com"]news:vuaugmcg0mvo2a@news.supernews.com[/url]...
>
>>"moshe" <joesterl@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>[url="news:40f21e75.0312190716.326d8b70@posting.google.com"]news:40f21e75.0312190716.326d8b70@posting.google.com[/url]...
>>
>>>Last spring a nurse told me that insulin that can be inhaled will be available in 2004.
>>
>>And the same nurse has probably been telling people that diabetes will be cured within 5 years.
>>And telling them the same thing for the past 50
>
> years.
>
>>>She said that it would be short-acting insulin in a container resembling the inhaler used by
>>>asthmatics. Is that true or just rumor?
>>
>>No it's not a rumour, inhalers ARE being looked at/developed, but I'm willing to lay decent odds
>>against them NOT being available in the next 12 months.
>>
>>
>>>I have been away from the group for a couple of years so I have not kept up on such news.
>>
>>Well you're a very naughty moshe, so go and stand in the corner of the
>
> class
>
>>:-)
>>
>>
>>Beav
>>
>>
>

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

"William C Biggs MD" <POTMYFKTOSUL@spammotel.com> wrote in message
[url="news:VdMFb.156881$cQ.7412@okepread05"]news:VdMFb.156881$cQ.7412@okepread05[/url]...
> Beav,
>
> Just to go on the record, I'll bet one beer. We can settle up next time I visit the UK, which will
> probably be 2005.
>
> Cheers, William C Biggs, MD
>
>
> "Beav" <beavis.original@ntloxoworld.com> wrote in message
> [url="news:vudf3714kb4v51@news.supernews.com"]news:vudf3714kb4v51@news.supernews.com[/url]...
> >
> > "William C Biggs MD" <POTMYFKTOSUL@spammotel.com> wrote in message
> > [url="news:a9kFb.154892$cQ.79102@okepread05"]news:a9kFb.154892$cQ.79102@okepread05[/url]...
> > > Beav,
> > >
> > > The inhaled insulins *are* actually getting closer. Release in 2004
is
> > > quite possible, depending upon the pulmonary studies that are pending.
> >
> > Ok doc, tell you want. I'll bet you REAL money it doesn't happen in
2004.

Bet real beer. Make it a Guinness, out in Westport, Ireland, and I'll stand the round either way
when my little brood and I go again...

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

"PagCal" <pagcal@runbox.com> wrote in message
[url="news:vv5j5ml23g0tfc@corp.supernews.com"]news:vv5j5ml23g0tfc@corp.supernews.com[/url]...
> > Studies
>
> In any event, inhaled insulin is a detour for any diabetics.
>
> It's still an 'open-loop' control system. Open-loop is a term borrowed from industrial control
> systems. It means you don't get feedback from the 'process' before you take action, and so for the
> case of Diabetes, you can still go hypo, because insulin is dumped in whether it is needed or not.
>
> What's really needed is a 'closed-loop' system. Here, you continuously monitor the sugar level in
> the blood and add insulin accordingly.
>
> A pump with a sugar measuring cannula would do the trick, for example.
>
> Or, since we make insulin with E. coli today, we should be able to add the bacteria to some sort
> of capsule with a permeable barrier, and you would just swallow one every few days. As glucose
> increases in the intestine, the E. coli would absorb it, and produce more insulin which would
> defuse back out into the body, and the sugar would drop.
>
> If we can go to the moon, we surely can build such a device. The 87 billion Bush just spent in
> Iraq could have brought such a partial 'cure' for diabetics.
Closed loop control for diabetics is clearly one of the most important aspects of therapy. If
however you want to look at statistics, most of the mortality and morbidity you are talking about
are from T2 diabetics, not type 1 and most of the T2 patients have working closed loop systems ie.
pancreata. Unfortunately something else is wrong (insulin resistance) and that is leading to most of
the problems. In the case of T1 patients who need insulin to stay alive there is lots of work going
on about closed loop pump/sensor systems (much of it from our labs) and also lots of biological work
as well. Unfortunately, it is much more complex than you think, for example the e-coli that make
insulin do not do it in response to glucose at all. Other cells can do it but making them is pretty
tricky and no one has yet succeeded.

BVA

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

In article <vv5j5ml23g0tfc@corp.supernews.com>,
PagCal <pagcal@runbox.com> wrote:
> > Studies

>In any event, inhaled insulin is a detour for any diabetics.

>It's still an 'open-loop' control system. Open-loop is a term borrowed from industrial control
>systems. It means you don't get feedback from the 'process' before you take action, and so for the
>case of Diabetes, you can still go hypo, because insulin is dumped in whether it is needed or not.

>What's really needed is a 'closed-loop' system. Here, you continuously monitor the sugar level in
>the blood and add insulin accordingly.

>A pump with a sugar measuring cannula would do the trick, for example.

Frankly, I would like to see a cheap means of getting frequent bg readings; which is MUCH simpler
than what you are asking for. With the half life of insulin, according to a previous posting, being
9 minutes, we would need much development; the current pump systems are nowhere near that fast, and
we would have to make major changes to do this.

>Or, since we make insulin with E. coli today, we should be able to add the bacteria to some sort of
>capsule with a permeable barrier, and you would just swallow one every few days. As glucose
>increases in the intestine, the E. coli would absorb it, and produce more insulin which would
>defuse back out into the body, and the sugar would drop.

I do not believe that the production of human insulin by genetically modified microorganisms
has controls.

>If we can go to the moon, we surely can build such a device. The 87 billion Bush just spent in Iraq
>could have brought such a partial 'cure' for diabetics.

This stupid argument again! We knew how to go to the moon in the 1920s; this was before working
television was invented. It is NOT a matter of money; what we need is to restore research by bright
and "crazy" researchers without any government direction, without stupid proposals, as no good
researcher can say what he will be doing six months in the future.

We had this BEFORE government support, and for the first 15 years or so, when the Cold War pushed
the money. But the government, even from the beginning, called for "spreading the wealth" instead of
concentrating in research universities, and the universities, having government money, diverted
their endowment income to other sources. Chemistry lab assistants are not available to the extent
that research chemists had them before WWII; it takes too much money from researchers with fancy
proposals.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics
Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

In article <vv6g9hp382vo65@corp.supernews.com>,
PagCal <pagcal@runbox.com> wrote:
>Would the infusion of 87 billion dollars help move the research along?

Probably not, except that it might speed up the testing of treatments. It costs hundreds of millions
to test a promising drug to the point that it can be approved.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics
Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

In article <4KVIb.166444$%h4.59533@twister.tampabay.rr.com>,
Hmmm <Hmmm@Hmmm.com> wrote:

>"PagCal" <pagcal@runbox.com> wrote :

>> Would the infusion of 87 billion dollars help move the research along?

> Yes it would. Now, get a movement going that will change the Constitution to give the Federal
> Government powers not included in the Constitution, powers to levy taxes to fund research into
> every disease du jur that happens to affect YOU personally and get most of the country to agree
> with you and they can do that.

No, get the government out of squandering money on welfare schemes which make things worse, and let
the ones who know how to earn money designate where it goes. Also, get the government out of
weakening education by trying to teach the idiots as much as the geniuses, and let the bright, and
especially the gifted, get their PhD's by age 20 or less without having to be with their age groups.
Also, restore research universities, and get rid of efforts to "spread the wealth" or to teach to
the ones who are unwilling or unable to learn.

Only in meeting external threats can governments do anything remotely intelligent. Without
government controls, we would probably have colonies on the Moon and in space NOW, and we would have
much better results in most things. And we might have a better understanding of biochemistry,
possibly enough to know the mechanism of Type 2 diabetes.

> That is, as long as the terrorists stay in Iraq and don't resume the more expensive and risky
> attacks here instead.

> Here's a better idea, if you are so interested in such research, find a company who is doing it
> already, and invest.

Get the government out of taxing those who believe in such research. It needs to be largely done in
research universities, with the broad spectrum of scientists.

Spend your own money instead of
>stealing mine.

The government has been stealing mine to support pollyanna schemes to attempt to make everyone
equal, meanwhile bringing things down. We cannot get a decent educational system in two DECADES,
and it cannot be done by NCLB, which forces those who CAN learn to wait until those who cannot
"catch up". Our "certified" teachers cannot themselves understand concepts, at least in mathematics
and science.

I am a diabetic who does not feel the government owes me
>every possible medical advance. It is not their job to keep me alive as long as humanly possible
>and I don't want them to have the power it would take to do that.

But it takes your money, and diverts it to welfare, instead of letting YOU decide how to use it. It
also pushes what is erroneously called "insurance" schemes, which take your money, and add lots of
waste. Medicare itself is pure welfare.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics
Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:50:38 GMT, cstacy@news.dtpq.com (Christopher C.
Stacy) wrote:

>>>>>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:18:45 -0500, PagCal ("PagCal") writes:
>
> PagCal> If we can go to the moon, we surely can build such a device. The 87 billion Bush just
> PagCal> spent in Iraq could have brought such a partial 'cure' for diabetics.
>
>Not if they've been blown up by terrorists.

No terrorists anywhere. This wil lbe the umpteenth time we've had some stupid scare,w ith nothing to
show for it. Watch-NY Eve and nothing will happen at all, again.

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

a flu shot doesn't have to have a specific amount injected (or inhaled) to be effective. Insulin
must be metered precisely. big difference.

dave

Andrea wrote:

> In article <YOZFb.1814$S36.1690@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>, Bay Area Dave <da@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Isn't this just a crutch for needle-phobics, truth be told?
>
>
> Could be, but if it makes life easier for people, what's wrong with that? Kind of like the inhaled
> flu vaccine that's out now. I don't mind getting a shot, but for people who really resist it, at
> least there's an alternative.
>
> --
> Lord, make me an instrument of your peace; Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
>
> remove "spamtrap" for e-mail

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

"MuscleMan" <stars@modempool.com> wrote:
>
> No terrorists anywhere.

They are all over in Iraq, as per plan.

> This wil lbe the umpteenth time we've had some stupid scare,w ith nothing to show for it. Watch-NY
> Eve and nothing will happen at all, again.

They are not "scares", they are "alerts". They are issued so that the local civil authorities
will move their PREVENTIVE measures up a notch. The idea behind them is to PREVENT attacks, not
to film them as they happen so you can watch it on TV.

Can you show that increased alertness and announced counter-terrorism measures did NOT deter an
attack? Of course not... unless you have an in with the terrorists, you don't know what they
planned and why they didn't go through with it.

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

"PagCal" <pagcal@runbox.com> wrote :
>
> Would the infusion of 87 billion dollars help move the research along?

Yes it would. Now, get a movement going that will change the Constitution to give the Federal
Government powers not included in the Constitution, powers to levy taxes to fund research into
every disease du jur that happens to affect YOU personally and get most of the country to agree
with you and they can do that.

That is, as long as the terrorists stay in Iraq and don't resume the more expensive and risky
attacks here instead.

Here's a better idea, if you are so interested in such research, find a company who is doing it
already, and invest. Spend your own money instead of stealing mine. I am a diabetic who does not
feel the government owes me every possible medical advance. It is not their job to keep me alive
as long as humanly possible and I don't want them to have the power it would take to do that.

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

Exactly! FAT = increased propensity to develop DM.

dave

PagCal wrote:

> Why, for example, is diabetes becoming epidemic in this country? You get Koka-Kola advertizing
> sugar water to children and Mikky-D's with a sugar water slurry and high fat.

Re: Insulin that can be inhaled?

"Herman Rubin" <hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote :
>
> No, get the government out of

Couldn't agree with you more.