When is a Diabetic Undiagnosible

This is confusing the living poop out of me. I used to think that it was one of those cases of YMMV
and I am able to eat on the higher end of the carb limit. I am totally off the medications I eat
enough to maintain 265+lbs it goes up and down that's about the average. ok I don't test a lot
mostly test when I pig out ( for a diabetic ) not as much as I used to but I am still able to
maintain this weight. I pigged out last night on both my bed time snacks. had a few whole grain rye
crackers with peanut butter and sugarless jelly I would say at least 4 after I didn't go to sleep I
had a bad case of the munchies I had 2 whole wheat sandwiches of ham and Swiss cheese. I didn't test
but those things I can do easily anytime during the day. this morning I had a FBS of 122 at 8:30 am
had 24 actually carbs of whole grain rye crackers and a cup of milk.
10:30 am my bs was 90 if anything I have a harder time keeping my numbers up then trying to keep
them down. I do not exercise sometimes I beef it up a bit to help motivate a newbie who probably
can not tolerate the amount of carbs I eat. when I get to 90 like I am now I feel weak. time to
eat. o yea... what the hell do I have to do to be diagnosed diabetic now? I cant bring myself to
eat enough to raise my numbers - yes I can actually eat more but knowing in the back of my head I
am diabetic - I usually just stop when I am satisfied. my meals are usually larger then 45 carbs.
after a coloni ( I probably spelled that wrong) in little Italy the highest number I seen was 170
and trust me my numbers where not low before I ate it. Tom

Re: When is a Diabetic Undiagnosible

"Charly Coughran" <ccoughran@REMOVE-TO-DELETE-UCSD.EDU> wrote in message
[url="news:Xns9467703E33B47ccoughranucsdedu@132.239.1.221"]news:Xns9467703E33B47ccoughranucsdedu@132.239.1.221[/url]...
>
> There is no one here qualified to diagnose you. Anyone who is qualified wouldn't touch the issue
> with a 10' pole. A few general things can be said, however.
>
> Home glucose meters are not accurate enough to be used for diagnosis. You need to see a doctor and
> have tests done by a lab or at the very least a calibrated glucometer.
>
> None of the numbers you present are diagnostic for anything.
>
> The symptoms you present are not specific for any diagnosis.
>
> Any diagnosis requires a medical history, examination, and verifying lab results. This can only be
> done by seeing a doctor.
>
> Excessive weight is a risk factor for a multitude of medical problems. You need to get that under
> control. See a dietitian. There are many paths to get there, but ultimately weight loss is
> calories in < calories out over a long period. Simple, but not easy.
>
> --
> -------
> Charly Coughran

Hey Charly:

I was Dx'd January 27, 2003 for about a week before dx I had a gum infection that was making food
taste nasty.so I was basically just drinking juice and soda for about a week. yea I was eating too
but mostly drinking. I started to turn green and could barely see. I was dx'd with a 300fbs. that
very day I started a strictly diet that my dietitian gave me and followed to the T for 6 months -.
while on 1000mg of metformin 2 times a day and 4 mg avandia 2 times a day I was able to eat 160carb
meals easily. so I halved the medications after a while of that I seen I was still able to eat very
large meals - I took myself off the rest of the medications. last A1C was 5.1 im over do for the
next one. I want to do some research and see what happens to a non diabetics blood sugar. I guess
those 6 months that I did really great on my diet and lost 65lbs has given me a nice reward :). Tom

Re: When is a Diabetic Undiagnosible

"oldal4865" <oldal4865@yahoo.com> wrote in message
[url="news:btcef6$5p31u$1@ID-121441.news.uni-berlin.de"]news:btcef6$5p31u$1@ID-121441.news.uni-berlin.de[/url]...
>
> Extreme-cc's wrote in message <1073320374.504250@nntp.acecape.com>...
> >This is confusing the living poop out of me. I used to think that it was one of those cases of
> >YMMV and I am able to eat on the higher end of the carb limit. I am totally off the medications I
> >eat enough to maintain 265+lbs it goes up and down that's about the average. ok I don't test a
> >lot mostly test when I pig out ( for a diabetic ) not as much as I used to but I am still able to
> >maintain this weight. I pigged out last night on both my bed time snacks. had a few whole grain
> >rye crackers with peanut butter and sugarless jelly I would say at least 4 after I didn't go to
> >sleep I had a bad case of the munchies I had 2 whole wheat sandwiches of ham and Swiss cheese. I
> >didn't test but those things I can do easily
> anytime
> >during the day. this morning I had a FBS of 122 at 8:30 am had 24 actually carbs of whole grain
> >rye crackers and a cup of milk.
> >10:30 am my bs was 90 if anything I have a harder time keeping my numbers up then trying to keep
> > them down. I do not exercise sometimes I beef it up a bit to help motivate a newbie who
> > probably can not
tolerate
> >the amount of carbs I eat. when I get to 90 like I am now I feel weak. time to eat. o yea... what
> >the hell do I have to do to be diagnosed diabetic now? I cant bring myself to eat enough to raise
> >my numbers - yes I can
actually
> >eat more but knowing in the back of my head I am diabetic - I usually just stop
when
> >I am satisfied. my meals are usually larger then 45 carbs. after a coloni ( I probably spelled
> >that wrong) in little Italy the highest number I seen was 170 and trust me my numbers where not
> >low before I ate it. Tom
> >
> >
>
> A diagnosis of "Diabetes" merely represents an observed level of blood sugar which exceeds
> some totally arbitrary limit set by a committee of doctors.
>
> Take a look at the slides 5 through 11 at
>
> "The Progression and Natural History of Type 2 Diabetes"
>
> [url="http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/145"]http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/145[/url]
>
> for a feel for how arbitrary any "easily measured degree of abnormality
such
> as elevated bG" can be in relation to the Progression of the disease. Also note the author-endo's
> urgent call to "diagnose and treat early" because of all that hidden damage before a simple
> diagnosis is undeniably positive.
>
> If you want some other markers of the disease, consider:
>
> a. Triglycerides levels: Unmedicated triglycerides ought to be
below
> 150 mg/dL. I am **Not** Type 2 diabetic. I am borderline obese, but my highest, non-medicated
> triglycerides ever has been 107 mg/dL
>
>b. HbA1c: DCCT-compliant labs state that their "normal" range is
> typically 4.2 - 6.0. However, the folks pushing the top end of that
> range are probably folks "about to be diagnosed diabetic". Anything
much
> above 5.0 - 5.2 (from a DCCT-compliant lab) is really suspicious.
>
>c. Err. . . normal folks feel fine at 90 mg/dL. I'm diabetic and I
> feel fine at 90 mg/dL. As Jenny says, normal folks spend most of their
> time down around there. If you feel queasy at such a slightly elevated
bG,
> I would guess that you have been spending a lot of time with substantially elevated bG.
>
> I have seen medical sites claim that normal humans have a control mechanism which aims at 80-
> 85 mg/dL. My experience in testing
non-diabetics
> supports that claim.
>

well thanks i was just about to start looking for that info. i thought non diabetics can go over
85 easily.

> If you feel you need to be diagnosed, ask for a Glucose Tolerance Test. Normies come in low;
> anything between 110 and 200 mg/dL at 2 hours says you're on your way and ought to behave like a
> diabetic. Anything result over 200 at 2 hours says you are there.

lol na not that way. if im going to give my system a shock like that. i want it to taste good.
Nutela for example or a nice italian pastry. 110? but isnt a fbs over 125 where one starts to think
they are diabetic? i think i remember someone saying a non diabetic can shoot up to 170 and then
come back down.

>
> (Why do you think [another?] formal diagnosis is desirable anyway? ? ?

actually i dont want another diagnosis but if im not taking medications and not exerciseing and eat
enough food to weight 265 pounds 5'11 and i never seen my self go above 170 from food im just
curious if i would even be diagnosable now. my numbers may go up but they shoot down and before you
know it i have to eat again - or anyway my meter tells me i can :).

> My doctor wiggled and wiggled to avoid saddling me with that diagnosis.
He
> finally couldn't wiggle anymore when he had to write Diabetic med prescriptions to help me
> control) ,
>
> Regards
> Old Al

Re: When is a Diabetic Undiagnosible

[url="http://www.coping-with-bipolar.com/?referrer=google"]http://www.coping-with-bipolar.com/?referrer=google[/url]

"Colleen" <colleen@privacy.net> wrote in message [url="news:vvjuvpctboora3@corp.supernews.com"]news:vvjuvpctboora3@corp.supernews.com[/url]...
> Don't forget the ADA. c
>
>
> "Sleepyman" <eat@moms.com> wrote in message [url="news:r6tjvv4d2ejdeh3q3u22up77piem32c6fa@4ax.com"]news:r6tjvv4d2ejdeh3q3u22up77piem32c6fa@4ax.com[/url]...
> > On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:32:53 -0600, "Extreme-cc's" <MrGantlet911(romove)@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Check with a dietician. LOL
> >
> > Sleepy
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > You can tell those republicans sure do like the poor folks, They just keep helping create more
> > and more of them!
> > -----------------------------------------------------------

Re: When is a Diabetic Undiagnosible

--
> > Hey Charly:
> >
> > I was Dx'd January 27, 2003 for about a week before dx I had a gum infection that was making
> > food taste nasty.so I was basically just drinking juice and soda for about a week. yea I was
> > eating too but mostly drinking. I started to turn green and could barely see. I was dx'd with a
> > 300fbs. that very day I started a strictly diet that my dietitian gave me and followed to the T
> > for 6 months -. while on 1000mg of metformin 2 times a day and 4 mg avandia 2 times a day I was
> > able to eat 160carb meals easily. so I halved the medications after a while of that I seen I was
> > still able to eat very large meals - I took myself off the rest of the medications. last A1C was
> > 5.1 im over do for the next one. I want to do some research and see what happens to a non
> > diabetics blood sugar. I guess those 6 months that I did really great on my diet and lost 65lbs
> > has given me a nice reward :). Tom
> >
> >
>
> That makes you a fairly common type 2 diabetic. Your underlying insulin resistance was exacerbated
> by an infection so that your pancreas was unable to maintain normal bg levels. Thus you were
> diagnosed. This indicates a pancreatic defect since a normal pancreas would have been able to
> maintain normal glucose levels under those circumstances. Insulin resistance and a pancreatic
> defect are the twin requirements for type 2 diabetes.
>
> Medication brought things under control and the subsequent weight loss reduced your insulin
> resistance to the point where your pancreas can keep up. You are a type 2 diabetic currently under
> control with lifestyle modifications (diet, weight loss, and/or exercise).
>
> An individual prognosis is impossible, but remember that, on average, type 2 diabetes is a
> progressive disease. That is, the underlying mechanisms responsible for your pancreatic defect,
> and possibly insulin resistance in addition to that due to weight, will likely continue.
>
> The closer to normal your weight, the more exercise you get, and the better your diet, the longer
> you are likely to go before your blood sugars again go out of control.

it may be progressive - but in a lot of ways *I* am in control of how fast or slow it progresses. it
is as close to a second chance as any diabetic can wish for. After reading this reply the first time
yesturday - i made a few changes to my diet - i am starting a new battle with my diabetes. as out of
shape as i am right now - i can really slow this thing up and probably be in better shape when i am
60 (diabetic wise) then i am now. i have heard it put many different ways but this post really got
to me. how does it feel to know with the time it took for you to write your reply that you probably
helped improve someones health? thanks i needed that.

>
> Do not make the mistake of believing that just because your bg's are currently normalized that you
> are immune to all diabetic complications. From current research we understand that those with the
> compromised metabolic systems associated with diabetes are at elevated risk for diabetic
> complications, even if their bg values are not elevated to the diagnostic range.

um i didnt hear that :). but i can lower those risks with a healthier life style.

>
> You are lucky that your diabetes was caught at an early stage, you should commend your doctor. You
> now have the chance to make the changes in your life style that can minimize, or perhaps even
> avoid, the full expression of your disease and the myriad of nasty complications that go with it.

actually im pretty mad at my doctor. 2 months before i was dx'd i had a physical and my fbs was 140
at the doctors office. i remember him saying it looked pretty high but thats all he said. i dont
know if he didnt believe me that i didnt eat before coming in or what. anything over 125 and
shouldnt he have tested again? if i didnt drink all that juice and soda and started control sooner i
would have been much better off. however you are right i think i am lucky.

>
> --
> -------
> Charly Coughran ccoughran@DELETE-TO-RESPOND-UCSD.EDU

Re: When is a Diabetic Undiagnosible

Hi Stephy:

yes that post helped me out big time. deep down inside I knew I should get back in the battle again.
it was a very good motivation post for me. I only had 5 Twinkies today instead of 10 lol kidding. so
many thoughts are going through my head right now as to how that post helped me - I don't know where
to begin. while riding my motorcycle yesterday - I was actually running with it at times. I know its
not as good as jogging but I bet it helps. I had a hard time with the bike last time I took it out
but yesterday was fantastic. I wanted to ride today very bad I just had too much work to do. Steph
sorry about your hands - why don't you try one of those speech to type programs? or is typing a good
exercise for your hands? you would be surprised Steph just what some find to be pertinent. sometimes
a simple hello works wonders. Tom
--
[url="http://www.diabetes.org/homepage.jsp"]http://www.diabetes.org/homepage.jsp[/url] Extreme-cc's 39 - Male - Type - 2
[url="http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/memberdetail.cfm?user_ID=162139"]http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/memberdetail.cfm?user_ID=162139[/url]

"Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message [url="news:vvoov4ruc5ahc4@corp.supernews.com"]news:vvoov4ruc5ahc4@corp.supernews.com[/url]...
> Tom, I was also impressed with Charly's response. It was a very clear explanation of what is
> probably going on. I'm glad he wrote it, and I
hope
> it will be an inspiration to you take care of yourself. I know you've
been
> slacking off, which we all do from time to time. : )
>
> Hands are better, but it is still difficult to type. So, I've only been posting if I think I have
> something pertinent to say.
>
> Take care. Steph
>
> "Extreme-cc's" <MrGantlet911(remove)@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> [url="news:1073502811.275755@nntp.acecape.com"]news:1073502811.275755@nntp.acecape.com[/url]...
> >
> >
> > --
> > > > Hey Charly:
> > > >
> > > > I was Dx'd January 27, 2003 for about a week before dx I had a gum infection that was making
> > > > food taste nasty.so I was basically just drinking juice and soda for about a week. yea I was
> > > > eating too but mostly drinking. I started to turn green and could barely see. I was dx'd
> > > > with a 300fbs. that very day I started a strictly diet that my dietitian gave me and
> > > > followed to the T for 6 months -. while on 1000mg of metformin 2 times a day and 4 mg
> > > > avandia 2 times a day I was able to eat 160carb meals easily. so I halved the medications
> > > > after a while of that I seen I was still able to eat very large meals - I took myself off
> > > > the rest of the medications. last A1C was 5.1 im over do for the next one. I want to do some
> > > > research and see what happens to a non diabetics blood sugar. I guess those 6 months that I
> > > > did really great on my diet and lost 65lbs has given me a nice reward :). Tom
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > That makes you a fairly common type 2 diabetic. Your underlying
insulin
> > > resistance was exacerbated by an infection so that your pancreas was unable to maintain normal
> > > bg levels. Thus you were diagnosed. This indicates a pancreatic defect since a normal pancreas
> > > would have been able to maintain normal glucose levels under those circumstances. Insulin
> > > resistance and a pancreatic defect are the twin requirements
for
> > > type 2 diabetes.
> > >
> > > Medication brought things under control and the subsequent weight loss reduced your insulin
> > > resistance to the point where your pancreas can
> keep
> > > up. You are a type 2 diabetic currently under control with lifestyle modifications (diet,
> > > weight loss, and/or exercise).
> > >
> > > An individual prognosis is impossible, but remember that, on average, type 2 diabetes is a
> > > progressive disease. That is, the underlying mechanisms responsible for your pancreatic
> > > defect, and possibly
insulin
> > > resistance in addition to that due to weight, will likely continue.
> > >
> > > The closer to normal your weight, the more exercise you get, and the better your diet, the
> > > longer you are likely to go before your blood sugars again go out of control.
> >
> > it may be progressive - but in a lot of ways *I* am in control of how fast or slow it
> > progresses. it is as close to a second chance as any diabetic can wish for. After reading this
> > reply the first time yesturday - i made a few changes to my diet - i am starting a new battle
> > with my diabetes. as out of shape as i am right now - i can really slow this thing up and
> > probably be in better shape when i am 60 (diabetic wise) then i am now. i have heard it put
> > many different ways but this post really got to me. how does it feel to know with the time it
> > took for
you
> > to write your reply that you probably helped improve someones health? thanks i needed that.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Do not make the mistake of believing that just because your bg's are currently normalized that
> > > you are immune to all diabetic
complications.
> > > From current research we understand that those with the compromised metabolic systems
> > > associated with diabetes are at elevated risk for diabetic complications, even if their bg
> > > values are not elevated to
the
> > > diagnostic range.
> >
> > um i didnt hear that :). but i can lower those risks with a healthier
> life
> > style.
> >
> > >
> > > You are lucky that your diabetes was caught at an early stage, you
> should
> > > commend your doctor. You now have the chance to make the changes in
> your
> > > life style that can minimize, or perhaps even avoid, the full
expression
> > > of your disease and the myriad of nasty complications that go with it.
> >
> > actually im pretty mad at my doctor. 2 months before i was dx'd i had a physical and my fbs was
> > 140 at the doctors office. i remember him saying it looked pretty high but thats all he said. i
> > dont know if he didnt believe me that i didnt eat before coming in or what. anything over 125
> > and shouldnt he have tested again? if i
didnt
> > drink all that juice and soda and started control sooner i would have been much better off.
> > however you are right i think i am lucky.
> >
> > >
> > > --
> > > -------
> > > Charly Coughran ccoughran@DELETE-TO-RESPOND-UCSD.EDU
> >
>