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The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down - Page 8

post #106 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

"Rick Onanian" <spamsink@cox.net> wrote in message
news:rtid10dk2635mbm1nq5gj1m5n48qgk3lac@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:02:21 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >Even here on RBT there are some who would rather diddle with a piece of allthread than tip the
> >nice mechanic after she pressed the head cups properly.
>
> Tangentially...what is a proper tip schedule for bike service?

I have now settled on plates of fresh baked goods, administered several times a year, as well as
Camp Fire candies.

Incidentally, would anyone like to buy a box of Camp Fire candies? http://www.campfire-
usa.org/product/candy.htm Just let me know!

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm

Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
My bookshelf: http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Cpetersky

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner
was you."
post #107 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

Claire Petersky wrote:
> "Rick Onanian" <spamsink@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:rtid10dk2635mbm1nq5gj1m5n48qgk3lac@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:02:21 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> Even here on RBT there are some who would rather diddle with a piece of allthread than tip the
>>> nice mechanic after she pressed the head cups properly.
>>
>> Tangentially...what is a proper tip schedule for bike service?
>
> I have now settled on plates of fresh baked goods, administered several times a year, as well as
> Camp Fire candies.

I take the box of goodies from the really good bakery in town route, myself.

Penny S
post #108 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

In article <WNERb.70710$f97.22351@fe3.columbus.rr.com>,
"Pete" <ptr@usaf.com> wrote:

> Would you consider a Yugo to be a valid car purchase?
>
> Pete

Only if it comes with the rear window defroster. That way your hands will be warm when you're
pushing it.

--
tanx, Howard

"I'm not lying, I'm writing fiction with my lips!" Homer Simpson

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
post #109 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

I'm a Seattle area resident who has never been to the Bikesmith. I've lived here 14 years. I've been
meaning to go but haven't made it. I guess I missed my chance. The shops closer to my house are
"good enough". Good shops but not great shops. There isn't a shop in the country that carries the
kind of inventory I can get from my fingertips and without having to drive all over town (or phoning
and usually being put on interminable hold). I do more and more of my bike stuff shopping online not
so much because of price but because of convenience, especially when I know what I want. I've found
very knowledgable folks at Colorado Cyclist, Excel Sports, and others -- certainly more knowledgable
than the average sales person at a local shop.
post #110 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

In article <WNERb.70710$f97.22351@fe3.columbus.rr.com>,
Pete <ptr@usaf.com> wrote:
> Buying a bike does not have to be a multi-thousand dollar experience [...]

> In 1981, I bought a $600 Fuji

What multiple of your hourly wage was that? Now, twenty three years later, how many dollars
would you earn in that time? I respectfully suggest that _was_ a multi-thousand dollar
experience, 2004-style.

ian
post #111 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:35:39 +0200,
<pan.2004.01.28.10.35.02.776314@privacy.net>, Donald Munro
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

>I've never been in a bike shop that had flowers on the sales counter.

That's Italian style 'good' Feng Shui.
--
zk
post #112 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

"Pete" <ptr@usaf.com> writes:
> In '99, I bought a $300 Specialized. Several thousand miles later, it, like the Fuji, is still
> going strong.

Ditto. I got a Specialized Crossroads for about $300 in '94. About 15,000 miles later, it is still
going strong...

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: chris@colohan.ca PGP: finger colohan@cs.cmu.edu Web: www.colohan.com Phone:
(412)268-4751
post #113 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

"Jonesy" <beelzebubba@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de :
news:73da2590.0401280944.7a1831ca@posting.google.com...
> I think not. I think you are being intentionally obtuse in order to make your "bike-snob
> bashing" point.

Well, someone had to do that !

Your thoughts lead to an imperative that bicycles bought for everyday use must meet "snob"
standards. Your imaginary cycling environment seems to be one where the rider is doing something so
very special when mounted on a bike. Here, it's not the case. They are for going to the grocer's, to
a friend's home, to taking care of chores. We expect (in Europe) that a bike serve these purposes as
basic transportation. So yes, Yugos are sound vehicles for their purposes, as are the X-mart (which
"Marts" are still around ?) bikes you revile. We expect our mass merchants to sell their bikes to
these standards, and they do. In the US, a bike is the first step in an upward progression to a car.
No maintenance is expected to be done ; no care is expected to be taken. They are disposable in that
environment.

> So I will ask you again - why, in light of the small difference in price, would you recommend
> someone buy a *Mart bike over an LBS offering?

There is seldom a really *small* difference in price. Buying power of large sellers result in lower
prices. Lower margin requirements lead to lower prices. As this group discusses racing (or so it
would appear...), your arguments sustain the elitist application of two-wheeled power over too broad
a spectrum of users. I am happier using my cheap Decathlon city bike for its purposes, and reserve
the racers for racing, training or cyclosportives.

I just wonder how much you might suggest we all spend for walking shoes ! I did see a store on a
recent trip to the States that catered to Walking shoes. Is the next chain going to be for Sitting
shoes ? for Gardening shoes ? for Kitchen shoes !?!?
--

Bonne route,

Sandy Paris FR
post #114 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

In rec.bicycles.tech jeffbonny <jeffbonny@remcapsshaw.ca> wrote:
: I'm a rigger and electrician, basically a stagehand who hangs stuff and deals with lighting in
: theatre, film and corporate events. A followspot is a spotlight that manually (me) follows the
: "talent" and
: 2.5K refers to the lamp in it being 2500 watts. The job is a Cirque du Soleil type theatre scene
: in the film Catwoman starring Halle Berry due out late summer or so.

say, i'm guessing this wasn't your fault?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movi....ap/index.html
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com
post #115 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

"BB" <bbauerAtitude@freeshell.org> a écrit dans le message de :
news:bv92f6$ppvkm$1@ID-130844.news.uni-berlin.de...

> > As this group discusses racing (or so it would appear...), your arguments sustain the elitist
> > application of two-wheeled power over too broad a spectrum of users.
>
> There is no "this group" when a thread is cross-posted to five newsgroups, only one of which is
> for discussing racing.

> Those stores are just a place that specializes in high-quality, comfortable casual shoes.

sitting = recumbent gardening = MTB kitchen = misc tech & racing = specialised and pertinent (did I
have to spell it out ?)

> Better shoe stores will sell the same shoes (but the selection will likely be less, since they'll
> also have high-quality dress shoes).

no kidding !

> Of course, the average American who doesn't walk much may be satisfied with department-store shoes
> that aren't built to handle several miles a day of walking.
>
> Similar to bikes - most Americans ride zero miles a day, so any bike will suffice for the primary
> purpose of gathering dust in the garage.

Same for shoes...
post #116 of 137

Re: OT: Motorcycle skid plates Was: Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle,

Eric M wrote:
> [trials motorcycle stuff]
>
> In article <8bbde8fc.0401280042.a43dfa4@posting.google.com>, Carl Fogel
> <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Am I right in thinking that these modern hydraulic clutch mechanisms offer smoother control for
>>the amazing acrobatics?
>
>
> Yea, but they also make it better for ordinary clubmen like myself who can't do a splatter up a 6'
> step. The clutch engagement point never changes no matter how hot the clutch gets and with less
> friction than a cable it's easier to pull and has more feel.
>
> Disc brakes are nice too as is water cooling. I enjoy competing on vintage bikes but when I want
> to practice it's usually on a modern bike.
>

I gotta say the amount of motorcycle trials interest that this thread has generated in non-
motorcycle newsgroups is astounding.

Greg
--
"Destroy your safe and happy lives before it is too late, the battles we fought were long and hard,
just not to be consumed by rock n' roll..." - The Mekons
post #117 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

In article <73da2590.0401281020.7fc8fd35@posting.google.com>,
beelzebubba@hotmail.com (Jonesy) wrote:

> carlfogel@comcast.net (Carl Fogel) wrote in message
> news:<8bbde8fc.0401280035.493e9194@posting.google.com>...
> > "Pete" <ptr@usaf.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > Would you consider a Yugo to be a valid car purchase?

> As with anything else that is low in cost, there were compromises with build quality and
> materials. That's why you see very few of these beasts these days. IIRC, it was less than 20 years
> ago that these beasts were first available in the U.S.

You're correct about that, although there are exceptions to that 'rule': I see Ford Pintos every
day, but pretty much never see Yugos or Chevy Vegas. (btw, the Yugo was imported by Malcolm
Bricklin, the guy who did the Bricklin gull-wing door car. Something of a step down, eh?)

--
tanx, Howard

"I'm not lying, I'm writing fiction with my lips!" Homer Simpson

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
post #118 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

In rec.bicycles.misc A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
: It's nice to have flowers and it's cheap in season, $3 to $6
: a week. I bike right past all the flower carts anyway.

i'm trying to visualize flower carts in madison in january.

yesterday i was checking accuweather to see if it was going to snow later in the week .. i punched
in my zipcode 83702 and nearly died. 9F high on saturday, lows in the -6F range. dear god, i felt my
heart in my throat. i'm used to 33F low and mid 40F highs.

i had, of course, punched in 53702. madison, wi.
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com
post #119 of 137

Re: OT: Motorcycle skid plates Was: Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle,

Carl Fogel wrote:
>
>
> Dear Greg,
>
> Well, both groups love to fuss over technical stuff. And sometimes they surprise each other.

I can see that.

>
> I'm still puzzling over the fixed-gear bicycle folk and their flat warning that a fixed-gear
> bicycle will rip any chain-tensioner right off the frame when the load reverses direction.
>
> When I pointed out that my ancient Honda trials bike's chain tensioner is intact after years of
> much higher speeds, far greater forces, and more frequent reversals, I wondered whether bicycles
> used sprockets instead of a pad block, and whether that might somehow make a difference--were we
> even talking about the same chain chain tensioner design?

Are you sure the reversals are more frequent? And with far great forces? I guess on a 4-stroke it
could be but on the 2-strokes I used to ride and race the engine would turn over quite easily and
didn't seem to put much braking pressure on.

The chain tensioners that were used at the beginning of my racing career were quite beefy and were
not mounted like a bicycle tensioner. Eventually the chain tensioners were replaced by a simple
roller near the swingarm pivot, pushing the chain from below as the swingarm extended. This was late
70s, early 80s. Don't know about current bikes.

>
> Sheldon Brown, a rather knowledgeable bicyclist to say the least, replied that he doesn't claim to
> know much about motorcycles, and as for the pad-block chain-tensioner used for over forty years in
> trials machines: "I dunno, what's a 'pad block?'"

Well, he is very knowledgeable about bicycles but I don't think he has ever claimed to know
everything about all two-wheeled vehicles.

>
> Jobst Brandt has occasionally remarked--

Jobst on the other hand seems to think he knows everything about everything.

>
> Let's see if anyone knowledgeable stumbles over this and enlightens us.
>

That would be interesting.

Greg

--
"Destroy your safe and happy lives before it is too late, the battles we fought were long and hard,
just not to be consumed by rock n' roll..." - The Mekons
post #120 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

> If he rides a used bike from a garage sale or a $100 department store bike, I think that he'll be
> fine. Millions and millions of people in Asia seem to do fine on rougher roads and cheaper bikes,
> none of them assembled with loving care by Western local bike shops.

Carl: Bicycles are not (yet) disposable items that require neither assembly nor maintenance nor
occasional repair. I suspect (OK, actually I know for a fact) that Asia has a large service industry
to support those inexpensive bikes they ride. They can be wheeled in for very, very cheap repairs.

If you buy a department-store bike here, you're really not buying the same thing that somebody in
Asia has, for several reasons.

First, department-store bikes are the *opposite* of generic. They're changing all manner of things
solely for styling, nothing else. This makes some repairs rather nightmarish... in contrast to those
sold in Asia, which are highly generic and standardized.

Second, there are very few communities where the cost of living is so low that a business can
survive doing cheap repairs on inexpensive bikes. Nor do the department stores have any interest
whatsoever in keeping that bike on the road. This severely hampers the utility of such bikes. For
those that are willing to learn even the most basic of mechanical skills, this should not be a
problem... but such people are becoming increasingly rare. We expect things from department stores
to either work or we toss them aside.

To conclude, it's not that "Western local bike shops" offer any more care than their urban Asian
counterparts. The issue is that we're talking about different bikes here than there, and very
different product support infrastructures.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Carl Fogel" <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8bbde8fc.0401280035.493e9194@posting.google.com...
> "Pete" <ptr@usaf.com> wrote in message
news:<WNERb.70710$f97.22351@fe3.columbus.rr.com>...
> > "Carl Fogel" <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote
> > >
> > > Are you serious that these "stupid" riders who saved money are taking "their life into their
> > > hands on a commute with a bicycle that may or may not be assembled properly"?
> > >
> > > If so, how many people would you say are killed every year while commuting on bicycles
> > > improperly assembled, either by local bike shops or chain stores?
> > >
> > > That is, if it's as stupid and dire and risky as you explicitly say it is to ride bicycles not
> > > assembled in local bike shops, shouldn't there actually be some striking consequences?
> > >
> >
> > It's not a matter of people being killed, or 'striking consequences',
but
> > rather a slow degradation of pleasure.
> >
> > A cheap bike, such as many of the bikes found in the dept stores, will
offer
> > worse braking, worse shifting, and a 'heavier' ride. Right out of the
box.
> > Wait a few weeks, and the braking/shifting gets worse. Condensation/rust
in
> > the cables, loose tolerances, a loose nut here and there all lead to
"WTF is
> > wrong with this thing?!?" Without significantly more maintenance, it degrades quickly. The owner
> > gets to a state of not wanting to deal with
the
> > hassle of riding, because the 'bike' is fighting him at every squeak of
the
> > pedal.
> >
> > And so it sits in the garage. Maybe eventually left in a garage sale.
> >
> > Now, if you want to talk about the raw safety aspect, look at the
stamped
> > steel brake arrms, and chromed or painted rims in the rain. Or the forks assembled backwards. Or
> > loose headset adjustment. Or brake levers at a
bad
> > angle. Or QR levers used as nuts, instead of locking arms. Little or no grease in the bearings.
> > Poor design, welding and QC, leading to broken forks.
> >
> > All too common on the low end dept store bikes. Could all this be fixed? Sure. But should a
> > buyer expect to tear down and rebuild a brand new
bike
> > completely to get it in a rideable state?
> >
> > Buying a bike does not have to be a multi-thousand dollar experience.
But
> > neither is it an $80 experience.
> >
> > In 1981, I bought a $600 Fuji. Many tens of thousands of miles later,
it's
> > still going strong. How many $100 Huffy's would I have gone through in
that
> > same mileage? How many more hours of maintenance would I have done
trying to
> > get and keep all those bikes in a usable state?
> >
> > Would you consider a Yugo to be a valid car purchase?
> >
> > Pete (cue Ron Hardin, Huffy maven)
>
> Dear Pete,
>
> A Yugo? Thirty years ago when they were inexpensive? For a four-mile daily school commute? Linda's
> Yugo worked fine at Colorado University in Boulder, but Steve hated to change its oil because it
> took an enormous hex wrench.
>
> Please don't misunderstand me (easy to do).
>
> A prospective college student asked for advice on what bicycle to get for a 4-mile daily
> round trip.
>
> If he rides a used bike from a garage sale or a $100 department store bike, I think that he'll be
> fine. Millions and millions of people in Asia seem to do fine on rougher roads and cheaper bikes,
> none of them assembled with loving care by Western local bike shops.
>
> I don't think, despite dire and explicit warnings about shrubs tearing mis-installed quick-release
> skewers off that the original poster will die a horrible death if he fails to pay more. And he'll
> have $700 if various posters convince him that he needs to push it by hand to a local bike shop
> for expert and detailed rehabilitation.
>
> Hell, he may realize that bicycling bores him silly, never go on to join the club that he had in
> mind, and find that girls are easier to meet when he walks or trots to school. (Most people in the
> U.S. and U.K. don't commute by bicycle. The ones who do usually don't begin in college.)
>
> If he bags it after seeing how it turns the lot of us into loonies, then he's about $700 ahead of
> the game. If not, he can put $700 in the finest contraption that we can come up with and still
> have a beater bike.
>
> Here's an interesting page. It's almost ten years old, but it's as close as I could find to a
> problem with improperly installed quick-release skewers:
>
> http://www.swhlaw.com/cyclwin.htm
>
> And remember, wild dangers were what some posters were warning us about at great length,
> apparently quite seriously.
>
> Do any accident, injury, or fatality statistics back up the claims that bicycles not purchased
> from local bike shops are clear and present dangers?
>
> Come to think of it, while all local bike shop owners and employees who post on rec.bicycles.tech
> are infallible gods who invariably agree with each other, aren't there an awful lot of other local
> bike shops routinely trashed here as being ignorant, incompetent, greedy, careless, and so forth?
>
> (I forget--is there any agreement here about whether the retaining thingy is really needed for
> safety on a fixed gear?)
>
> For you in hindsight, spending more on a first commuting bike on a college student's budget makes
> sense. But realistically, how many tires, tubes, chains, gears, and brake pads do you expect to
> wear out pedalling twenty miles per week? What kind of expert maintenance is needed for what
> amounts to no more biking than I did as a kid?
>
> They actually roll along with rattly bearings, creaky pedals, loose chains, low tire pressures,
> and the tiny noises that lead to long threads here. We just can't bear to admit it without a
> struggle.
>
> It's a little like fishing. Fifty feet of line, a hook, and a worm will often do as well as a
> carbon rod, hip-waders, and a tackle-box full of hand-tied flies, particularly when you're
> interested in eating the fish, not size or catch and release or seeing how light a line you
> can use.
>
> A four-mile round-trip college commute is hardly impossible or dangerous on an inexpensive bicycle
> that costs less than the shoes and pedals for what most of us consider the bare essentials.
>
> Carl Fogel
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