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post #46 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

"Zippy the Pinhead" <the_corporate_hose@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8t8j001en7vks9kir2qhlcsd21saalsrh5@4ax.com...
> On 17 Jan 2004 09:23:11 -0800, reco_diver@hotmail.com (Reco Diver) wrote:
>
> >>They, unlike you and your ilk, concentrate on customer service and repeat business.
> >
> >My ilk? Sir, I was the service manager and a long time employee of Palo Alto Bicycles.
>
> Yep. You don't see too many ilk in Palo Alto.
>
> You gotta go way up north. I'm talking Northern Minnesota, maybe even Canada, before you'll see
> many ilk.

Come on up to Seattle some time, we're overrun with ilk sometimes... ;-P
post #47 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

"BB" <bbauerAtitude@freeshell.org> wrote in message
news:bubtbn$g01u7$1@ID-130844.news.uni-berlin.de...
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 04:17:52 GMT, HardwareLust wrote:
>
> I would add the qualifier "some". Not all LBSs are closing up because of poor attitudes, but
> certainly a poor attitude will help get one closed. We had an LBS a mile from my house, and the
> guy running the place was an asshole. After getting attitude from him, I avoided the place.
> Apparently I wasn't the only one!
>

True, but I was peeved, and painting with an overly broad brush.

There are indeed still good LBS's our there, and there are three in the Seattle area that I know of,
and I'll happily drive or ride for miles to go visit or if I need something immeadiately.
Unfortunately, Bikesmith is one of them, so we're probably down to two now.
post #48 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

>Are you happy with City Bikes?

Moderately. I favor the Bike Shop at Dupont Circle.

The one with the hardware store attached.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>cwhitman@texastwr.utaustin.edu__________
post #49 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

On 19 Jan 2004 15:29:07 +0000 (GMT), David Damerell
<damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>And that the stuff is right there, right now. If you commute by bike (which I know Guy does) and
>something breaks, you want a replacement right away; even if you have a spare bike, until the spare
>part arrives, you're not on your preferred machine.

For this we have Bob Bristow's Bike Repair Sevice[1], Open All Hours, all major banknote
denominations accepted :-)

[1] Only available in Reading, Berkshire, UK

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
post #50 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

"cheg" <spameater@communistcast.net> wrote:

> I was talking to Val Kleitz at the Bikesmith in Seattle today and he told me that he will have to
> go out of business in a couple of weeks.

Sure enough; I called my pal Soren (who works there) and got the scoop about it. Turns out the
landlord is kicking Val & Co. out of the store soon, and nothing can be done at this point.

All free-market bull**** aside, The Bikesmith is not just another shop. In a town full of great bike
shops, it is the best-- the most useful and interesting shop, in this or any other town, I have ever
seen. Its failure to prosper is tangible proof of the failure of Sesttle to cultivate those things
that make it unique.

My recent visit to Austin turned me on to a new and pervasive slogan stickered, printed, and worn
all over the place: "Keep Austin Weird - Support Local Business". Sometimes people have to be
reminded that the things they love most about their communities can die of neglect!

That this town has room for a new SuperGo store to pop up just as The Bikesmith is going under
simply disgusts me. There are just so many damn benighted tools and so few people who are willing to
belong to something worthwhile.

Anyway, my sincerest thanks go to The Bikesmith for being a light in the darkness.

And Seattle, with its pervasive darkness and mercenary soul, can kiss my ass.

Chalo Colina
post #51 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

carlfogel@comcast.net (Carl Fogel) wrote:

> It sounds as if your friend works for someone who has decided to go out of business instead of
> leasing and moving into a new shop.

Actually, the landlord has reached his limit of patience with The Bikesmith being late on rent. I
could wish that he were more charitable in this case, but that is not the inclination of landlords
IME.

It would be difficult to imagine that Val could take on a new, most likely more expensive lease
while already in arrears to the point of eviction on his current one.

> In all this fuss about a business ending, no one seems to have asked the obvious question. How
> badly did the owner want to continue?
>
> Keep in mind, something like 95% of all small businesses vanish within two years. Most of the rest
> vanish when the owners grow old or tired.
>
> For all I know, the owner may be secretly relieved. He may be ending years of frustration and
> scraping by, month by month.

I certainly can't blame him if this is the case, but I have to wonder about the virtue of a town in
which some cheesy, basically worthless bike shops can prosper but a truly helpful, expert, and well-
versed shop like Val Kleitz's can founder.

It's much the same as when chain "restaurants" thrive while local owner-operated eateries fold, or
when Wal-Mart exterminates entire small-town economies in exchange for a few percent discount on
crappified goods.

Most folks are tools, proved so by their actions. I might have to acknowledge it, but I don't have
to approve of it.

Chalo Colina
post #52 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

I was upset when my LBS lost a damn good hand to go manage some Supergo store in Seattle. I got over
it and continue to support my LBS and the staff they have.

I would mourn the passing of a great shop and move on with your life. You may find that another shop
(Supergo perhaps) may fill some of your needs and is staffed with it's own wonderful people.

William Higley, Sr. Vision R-50 RANS Rocket "Rick Onanian" <spamsink@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c26r009f4695nq4o010gkr8qkuclskh524@4ax.com...
> On 20 Jan 2004 12:22:46 -0800, chumpychump@hotmail.com (Chalo) wrote:
> >I certainly can't blame him if this is the case, but I have to wonder about the virtue of a town
> >in which some cheesy, basically worthless bike shops can prosper but a truly helpful, expert, and
> >well-versed shop like Val Kleitz's can founder.
>
> ...then you'll have to wonder about the virtue of every town I've seen. This is the condition
> everywhere; witness my previous comments that the good LBS are struggling while the terrible ones
> are expanding and raking in the dough.
>
> >It's much the same as when chain "restaurants" thrive while local owner-operated eateries fold,
>
> Unless you're talking about fast food, you're a bit wrong with that one. A good LBS sells the same
> products as a bad one, but with better service. There's no local owner-operated eatery where you
> can get a steak or burger vaguely resembling the yummy stuff available at themed chain steakhouses
> like Bugaboo Creek, The Outback, or The Lone Star Steakhouse. The themes are silly, the
> environments loud, the service often lacking, but the product can't be found elsewhere.
>
> >or when Wal-Mart exterminates entire small-town economies in exchange for a few percent discount
> >on crappified goods.
>
> That's a closer analogy, except with LBS [at least here, where there's no Performance or Supergo
> stores] there aren't big conglomerates, just thriving local businesses with terrible service and
> struggling ones with good service.
> --
> Rick Onanian
post #53 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

BB wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:59:30 -0800, William Higley, Sr. wrote:
>
>> I would mourn the passing of a great shop and move on with your life. You may find that another
>> shop (Supergo perhaps) may fill some of your needs and is staffed with it's own wonderful people.
>
> Just because its part of a company that has a MO biz doesn't necessarily mean its going to have
> bad service. The Performance LBS in Portland has been better than most.

Ditto the old Performance store in Irvine, CA, which was easily the best "LBS" in Orange County.
Since they moved to a bigger mall in Tustin, they haven't been quite the same (as of 2-3 years
ago, anyway).

Matt O.
post #54 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

"William Higley, Sr." <williamhigley@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:wuWdnamwmvI4QZDdRVn-vg@comcast.com...
> I was upset when my LBS lost a damn good hand to go manage some Supergo store in Seattle. I got
> over it and continue to support my LBS and the
staff
> they have.

That wouldn't be Manuel, would it?
post #55 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

In article <8bbde8fc.0401202058.56cad5e8@posting.google.com>,
Carl Fogel <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote:
> Right now, there's an amusing thread ("What Bike to Buy") in which a college student is asking for
> advice about what kind of $800 bicycle to buy for a daily round-trip commute of 4 miles and
> possibly joining a bicycle group.

Having not ridden a pedal bike for more than twenty years, I bought one last spring while I was
getting a bike as a seventh birthday present for my daughter. I said ``while I'm here, one for me
too'', and he handed me a bike. Cost about two hundred quid ($350 now, $300 then). Total time spent
on decision: about sixty seconds.

I'm now riding 25 miles on towpaths most weekends, and have done the fifty mile round trip to the
office several times before the weather closed in. I stuck some SPD pedals on it. Oh, and I had to
have the BB bearing changed within a few weeks, the bathtub curve working its magic, so I took the
opportunity to have a cartridge bearing put in at someone else's expense.

I'm now trying to make a slightly more sophisticated job of buying something a little lighter, a
little more suspended (the current one's rigid at both ends) and with better brakes. Net result so
far: no money spent, as each shop just confuses me with why the brands they happen to sell are so
much better than the brands everyone else sells.

ian
post #56 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

From the back of the choir loft:

AMEN BROTHER!!!!

Miles of Smiles

Tom "Carl Fogel" <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8bbde8fc.0401202058.56cad5e8@posting.google.com...
> chumpychump@hotmail.com (Chalo) wrote in message
news:<8b4b7de4.0401201222.2f43690a@posting.google.com>...
> > carlfogel@comcast.net (Carl Fogel) wrote:
> >
> > > It sounds as if your friend works for someone who has decided to go out of business instead of
> > > leasing and moving into a new shop.
> >
> > Actually, the landlord has reached his limit of patience with The Bikesmith being late on rent.
> > I could wish that he were more charitable in this case, but that is not the inclination of
> > landlords
> > IME.
> >
> > It would be difficult to imagine that Val could take on a new, most likely more expensive lease
> > while already in arrears to the point of eviction on his current one.
> >
> > > In all this fuss about a business ending, no one seems to have asked the obvious question. How
> > > badly did the owner want to continue?
> > >
> > > Keep in mind, something like 95% of all small businesses vanish within two years. Most of the
> > > rest vanish when the owners grow old or tired.
> > >
> > > For all I know, the owner may be secretly relieved. He may be ending years of frustration and
> > > scraping by, month by month.
> >
> > I certainly can't blame him if this is the case, but I have to wonder about the virtue of a town
> > in which some cheesy, basically worthless bike shops can prosper but a truly helpful, expert,
> > and well-versed shop like Val Kleitz's can founder.
> >
> > It's much the same as when chain "restaurants" thrive while local owner-operated eateries fold,
> > or when Wal-Mart exterminates entire small-town economies in exchange for a few percent discount
> > on crappified goods.
> >
> > Most folks are tools, proved so by their actions. I might have to acknowledge it, but I don't
> > have to approve of it.
> >
> > Chalo Colina
>
> Dear Chalo,
>
> Offering something of little value to the vast majority of people is no recipe for easy economic
> success.
>
> That's why there are far more restaurants than bicycle shops--people like to eat far more than
> they like to ride bicycles.
>
> Within a given field, offering helpful, expert, well-versed advice is still no recipe for easy
> economic success, unless the field is extremely demanding.
>
> A surprising number of things don't actually require quite as much self-trumpeted expertise and
> advice as we experts and advisers believe. Despite our dire predictions, many people seem to get
> along just fine without paying computer consultants, bicycle mechanics, personal trainers,
> financial experts, psychologists, travel guides, and other folks whose expertise is often dwarfed
> by their self-importance.
>
> Right now, there's an amusing thread ("What Bike to Buy") in which a college student is asking for
> advice about what kind of $800 bicycle to buy for a daily round-trip commute of 4 miles and
> possibly joining a bicycle group.
>
> He's already been warned not to buy a bicycle without extensive research and pestering the local
> bike stores silly--and God forbid that he should commit suicide by buying something with two
> wheels from WalMart that works better than what my friends who were Boy Scouts rode to earn merit
> badges by pedalling 50 miles to the mountains and back.
>
> If we work at it, I believe that we can terrify the boy so badly with our expertise about carbon
> forks, the right gear ratios, the best cleats, proper wheel-building, whether to wear a helmet,
> Shimano versus Campagnolo, quality parts, and the mysteries of frame fit that he'll end up walking
> to class.
>
> (Of course, then he'd need a lot of expert advice about what kind of shoes to buy to avoid ruining
> his feet.)
>
> While you're disgusted with a city that won't support every bicycle shop that you like, I'm amazed
> by a country where someone old enough to join the Marines sincerely believes that he needs
> extensive expert advice to buy a bicycle to ride less than ten minutes each way to school--and we
> stand ready to reinforce that notion.
>
> Beware of considering everyone else jerks just because they don't share your interests or spend as
> much money as you wish they would on things that you like. You could end up a crank like me,
> wondering why there are so few all-Vivaldi music stations in this heathen wilderness.
>
> Carl Fogel
post #57 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

Tom Blum wrote:
> From the back of the choir loft:
>
> AMEN BROTHER!!!!

Umm, what the hell are you Amen-ing?!?

Bill "pick & choose from posts below" S.

*****************

> "Carl Fogel" <carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:8bbde8fc.0401202058.56cad5e8@posting.google.com...
>> chumpychump@hotmail.com (Chalo) wrote in message
> news:<8b4b7de4.0401201222.2f43690a@posting.google.com>...
>>> carlfogel@comcast.net (Carl Fogel) wrote:
>>>
>>>> It sounds as if your friend works for someone who has decided to go out of business instead of
>>>> leasing and moving into a new shop.
>>>
>>> Actually, the landlord has reached his limit of patience with The Bikesmith being late on rent.
>>> I could wish that he were more charitable in this case, but that is not the inclination of
>>> landlords IME.
>>>
>>> It would be difficult to imagine that Val could take on a new, most likely more expensive lease
>>> while already in arrears to the point of eviction on his current one.
>>>
>>>> In all this fuss about a business ending, no one seems to have asked the obvious question. How
>>>> badly did the owner want to continue?
>>>>
>>>> Keep in mind, something like 95% of all small businesses vanish within two years. Most of the
>>>> rest vanish when the owners grow old or tired.
>>>>
>>>> For all I know, the owner may be secretly relieved. He may be ending years of frustration and
>>>> scraping by, month by month.
>>>
>>> I certainly can't blame him if this is the case, but I have to wonder about the virtue of a town
>>> in which some cheesy, basically worthless bike shops can prosper but a truly helpful, expert,
>>> and well-versed shop like Val Kleitz's can founder.
>>>
>>> It's much the same as when chain "restaurants" thrive while local owner-operated eateries fold,
>>> or when Wal-Mart exterminates entire small-town economies in exchange for a few percent discount
>>> on crappified goods.
>>>
>>> Most folks are tools, proved so by their actions. I might have to acknowledge it, but I don't
>>> have to approve of it.
>>>
>>> Chalo Colina
>>
>> Dear Chalo,
>>
>> Offering something of little value to the vast majority of people is no recipe for easy economic
>> success.
>>
>> That's why there are far more restaurants than bicycle shops--people like to eat far more than
>> they like to ride bicycles.
>>
>> Within a given field, offering helpful, expert, well-versed advice is still no recipe for easy
>> economic success, unless the field is extremely demanding.
>>
>> A surprising number of things don't actually require quite as much self-trumpeted expertise and
>> advice as we experts and advisers believe. Despite our dire predictions, many people seem to get
>> along just fine without paying computer consultants, bicycle mechanics, personal trainers,
>> financial experts, psychologists, travel guides, and other folks whose expertise is often dwarfed
>> by their self-importance.
>>
>> Right now, there's an amusing thread ("What Bike to Buy") in which a college student is asking
>> for advice about what kind of $800 bicycle to buy for a daily round-trip commute of 4 miles and
>> possibly joining a bicycle group.
>>
>> He's already been warned not to buy a bicycle without extensive research and pestering the local
>> bike stores silly--and God forbid that he should commit suicide by buying something with two
>> wheels from WalMart that works better than what my friends who were Boy Scouts rode to earn merit
>> badges by pedalling 50 miles to the mountains and back.
>>
>> If we work at it, I believe that we can terrify the boy so badly with our expertise about carbon
>> forks, the right gear ratios, the best cleats, proper wheel-building, whether to wear a helmet,
>> Shimano versus Campagnolo, quality parts, and the mysteries of frame fit that he'll end up
>> walking to class.
>>
>> (Of course, then he'd need a lot of expert advice about what kind of shoes to buy to avoid
>> ruining his feet.)
>>
>> While you're disgusted with a city that won't support every bicycle shop that you like, I'm
>> amazed by a country where someone old enough to join the Marines sincerely believes that he needs
>> extensive expert advice to buy a bicycle to ride less than ten minutes each way to school--and we
>> stand ready to reinforce that notion.
>>
>> Beware of considering everyone else jerks just because they don't share your interests or spend
>> as much money as you wish they would on things that you like. You could end up a crank like me,
>> wondering why there are so few all-Vivaldi music stations in this heathen wilderness.
>>
>> Carl Fogel
post #58 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

"S o r n i" <sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:nAxPb.1884$z03.1661@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Tom Blum wrote:
> > From the back of the choir loft:
> >
> > AMEN BROTHER!!!!
>
> Umm, what the hell are you Amen-ing?!?
>
> Bill "pick & choose from posts below" S.
>

Wow, Sorni, did you take over for me during my absence? If so, good job! You can keep it!

Greg
post #59 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

That's OK ;-)

Bill "bet Red Foreskin won't get it" S.

G.T. wrote:
> "S o r n i" <sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:nAxPb.1884$z03.1661@twister.socal.rr.com...
>> Tom Blum wrote:
>>> From the back of the choir loft:
>>>
>>> AMEN BROTHER!!!!
>>
>> Umm, what the hell are you Amen-ing?!?
>>
>> Bill "pick & choose from posts below" S.
>>
>
> Wow, Sorni, did you take over for me during my absence? If so, good job! You can keep it!
>
> Greg
post #60 of 137

Re: The Bikesmith, Seattle, shutting down

carlfogel@comcast.net (Carl Fogel) wrote in message
> Dear Chalo,
>
> Offering something of little value to the vast majority of people is no recipe for easy economic
> success. ...
>
> Carl Fogel

Your note is a bolt of lightning piece of wisdom! Well done, Carl.
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