TR Helvellyn

"Mike Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Walk summary
>
> 17.77 miles Height Ascended 2061 metres Time 10 hours 40
> minutes 13 Wainrights (10 of which were new to me)
>
> Oh well just done the Naismith calc which gives 9.27 hours
> for the walk. I am unfit.
>

Tupper's method: 1 hour per 250m (up and down) comes to 8 hr
15 mins. You must therefore have had 2 hr 25 mins of flat-
ish walking (or my method isn't working).

The method works best on straight-up-and-down walks.
--
Adrian

"Mike Mason" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> Day (Wednesday) started as normal for a Lakes day with a
> quick run up the
> M6. The views from the Kirkstone clear and sharp. Arrived
> in Glenridding
at
> 8.45am and set off at 9.00am.
snip
> All in all a great day, good views and much of the walk
> done without too many people around.
>
> Walk summary
>
> 17.77 miles Height Ascended 2061 metres Time 10 hours 40
> minutes 13 Wainrights (10 of which were new to me)
>
> Oh well just done the Naismith calc which gives 9.27 hours
> for the walk. I am unfit.
>
> Mike Mason

Quite an impressive day. I did almost the same track in two
days. Stayed overnight in Helvellyn YH so I've taken in
Striding Edge and Swirral Edge. As for speed : take your
time if you know you'll be back in time.

Theo

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:39:10 GMT, "Mike Mason"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Day (Wednesday) started as normal for a Lakes day with a
>quick run up the
>M6. The views from the Kirkstone clear and sharp. Arrived
> in Glenridding at
> 8.45am and set off at 9.00am.
>
>Walked back along the road towards Patterdale and turned up
>the road at Grisedale Bridge and started looking for the
>footpath towards Arnison Crag. Found the first part but
>lost it and ended up with a lost 15 minutes round Home Farm
>before finally picking the path up again. The path lead
>ever upwards with better and better views of Ullswater as I
>got higher. The summit was reached quite quickly and after
>a brief rest set off for Trough Head. Picked up the wall
>there and followed it onto the ridge of Birks quite close
>to the top. Very steep hereabouts. The ridge to St Sunday
>Crag stretched away to the summit. Very pleasant walking
>with good views across Grisedale. From the summit of St
>Sunday Crag descended the ridge towards Fairfield bur
>dropped of the ridge down towards Grisedale Tarn. Steep at
>the top but quickly flattening out. A really good path all
>the way to the tarn, round the tarn and low gear again to
>get up Seat Sandal.
>
>So far the walk had been good, weather was sunny and
>getting warmer and there were not too many people around.
>The path up to Dollywagon however was another matter, lots
>of people going up and down.. Dropped down off Seat Sandal
>(almost due North) and then straight up the steep southern
>face of Dollywagon. No real path here just a wall to guide
>in the right direction. Came of the slope at the metal post
>on the path (? anyone any idea what the post is about).
>Crossed the path and headed for the summit of dollywagon
>followed by High Crag and Nethermost Pike and finally
>Helvellyn. This bit of the walk was quite different crowds
>of people about. Didn't stop on Helvellyn summit cause
>there was nowhere to sit. Went round to Lower Man and then
>Whiteside. Stopped here for a late lunch and peace again.
>The walk down to Raise was hard as I stiffened up and the
>climb to the summit was not good, fortunately the walk down
>to Sticks Pass was easier as I loosened up. The climb up to
>Stybarrow Dodd seemed long and I realised I was getting
>quite tired. The original plan was to trot along to
>Watson's Dodd and Great Dodd and then return to Stybarrow
>but after due consideration I gave it a miss.
>
>Dropped down towards White Stones (Greenside) and
>followed the path round to Hartside. Lovely walking
>here, no path to speak of and no people. In fact the
>last person I had seen was at the Sticks Pass and I
>didn't meet anyone else until I got back into
>Glenridding.. Another rest at Hart Side and then the
>long gradual climb to the summit of White Stones.
>Noticed here the batteries on my GPS had flattened so
>changed them for the spares. Looking at the screen I had
>lost about a hundred metres. Started off down the path
>towards Sheffield Pike and was surprised to find myself
>very close to the edge of the disused quarries. Not a
>place I like to be in cloud. Crossed Nick Head and
>wondered about abandoning the rest of the route and
>escape by dropping down to the mines but didn't in the
>end. Very tired now with knee lateral ligament starting
>to play up. Top of Sheffield Pike arrived and went past.
>The descant to Glenridding Dodd was painful and slow but
>finally I was on the top of Glenridding Dodd. Last of
>water used up here (cannot recall passing running water
>in the whole of the day) together with last of food. The
>final walk down into Glenridding was taken slowly but
>eventually arrived back at the car at 7.40pm very
>knackered but very pleased with the day.
>
>All in all a great day, good views and much of the walk
>done without too many people around.
>
>Walk summary
>
>17.77 miles Height Ascended 2061 metres Time 10 hours 40
> minutes 13 Wainrights (10 of which were new to me)
>
>Oh well just done the Naismith calc which gives 9.27 hours
>for the walk. I am unfit.
>
>Mike Mason
>

Quite impressed by the fact you managed to do Helvellyn from
Glenridding without going across striding or swirral edge. I
must admit myself to walking on all of the route that you
gave but on about 5 or 6 different occasions.
--
Gwyn. [email protected] **spam trap** remove rem
if replying

> 17.77 miles Height Ascended 2061 metres Time 10 hours 40
> minutes 13 Wainrights (10 of which were new to me)

17 miles, 2000 metres, make your mind up, are you
metric or not!

>
> Oh well just done the Naismith calc which gives 9.27 hours
> for the walk. I am unfit.
>

Have you added on time for stops? Anyway, Naismith takes no
account of the fact that you slow down as you get tired,
assuming that you walk at the same speed after 15 miles as
you do when you're fresh.

I'm pretty fit at the moment (or was before I twisted by
ankle and knackered my knees), and your time matches quite
well the sort of times we were clocking up for similar walks
in Scotland a couple of weeks ago.

On 10 Jun 2004 03:13:33 -0700, [email protected] (Simon
Caldwell) wrote:

>>
>> 17.77 miles Height Ascended 2061 metres Time 10 hours 40
>> minutes 13 Wainrights (10 of which were new to me)
>
>17 miles, 2000 metres, make your mind up, are you
>metric or not!
Whats the problem.... I insist on using what ever units I am
happy with..

Miles are familiar, metres for height gain is familiar. I
dont understand feet and usually convert them the metres
in the up/down dimension. Fortunately. I am happy with km
as well, and my GPS is set to metric (to avoid those
pesky feet)

Ironically I have only used feet as a height unit in a very
metric country, speed limits in kph distances in km, the
maps are in feet.. Step forward Canada!

Its a function of living at the time of two systems.. I dont
get gallons for petrol, used to litres, but hate buying beer
and milk by anything but the pint.

Of course you can get round it by using furlongs. 5 to the
km and 8 to the mile.

I would not worry about unit names and systems.. as long as
you can get a number that tells you how much work there is
ahead of you.

Richard Webb

The message <[email protected]>
from [email protected] (Simon Caldwell) contains these words:

> > Oh well just done the Naismith calc which gives 9.27
> > hours for the walk. I am unfit.
> >

> Have you added on time for stops?

Naismith includes time for stops.

> Anyway, Naismith takes no account of the fact that you
> slow down as you get tired, assuming that you walk at the
> same speed after 15 miles as you do when you're fresh.

That is because Naismith came up with a formula for
predicting the overall time of a full days walk, not
individual elements. However if you pace yourself carefully
and don't reach total exhaustion there is no reason why you
shouldn't be walking as fast at the end of the day as at the
beginning.

BTW welcome to the knackered knees club. I trust that you
have a recoverable from affliction.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 27 summits New - 16 (Marilyns
4, Sweats 1, Outlying Fells 11) Repeats - 11( Marilyns 2,
Sweats 6, Wainwrights 11) Knackered knee - 3 times

"Simon Caldwell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > 17.77 miles Height Ascended 2061 metres Time 10 hours 40
> > minutes 13 Wainrights (10 of which were new to me)
>
> 17 miles, 2000 metres, make your mind up, are you
> metric or not!

Both. Easier for me to work in mph but height is easier in
metres. Just me. I'm getting old.
>
> >
> > Oh well just done the Naismith calc which gives 9.27
> > hours for the walk.
I
> > am unfit.
> >
>
> Have you added on time for stops?

No

> Anyway, Naismith takes no account of the fact that you
> slow down as you get tired, assuming that you walk at the
> same speed after 15 miles as you do when you're fresh.
>
> I'm pretty fit at the moment (or was before I twisted by
> ankle and knackered my knees), and your time matches quite
> well the sort of times we were clocking up for similar
> walks in Scotland a couple of weeks ago.

Sorry to hear about your knee. A couple of years ago I was
achieving Naismith times with a bit of a struggle. I am that
much less fit than I was two years ago. It goes with my job
I suspect.

Mike Mason

"gwyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 16:39:10 GMT, "Mike Mason"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Day (Wednesday) started as normal for a Lakes day with a
> >quick run up the
> >M6. The views from the Kirkstone clear and sharp. Arrived
> > in Glenridding
at
> > 8.45am and set off at 9.00am.
> >
> >Walked back along the road towards Patterdale and turned
> >up the road at Grisedale Bridge and started looking for
> >the footpath towards Arnison
Crag.
> >Found the first part but lost it and ended up with a lost
> >15 minutes
round
> >Home Farm before finally picking the path up again. The
> >path lead ever upwards with better and better views of
> >Ullswater as I got higher. The summit was reached quite
> >quickly and after a brief rest set off for
Trough
> >Head. Picked up the wall there and followed it onto the
> >ridge of Birks
quite
> >close to the top. Very steep hereabouts. The ridge to St
> >Sunday Crag stretched away to the summit. Very pleasant
> >walking with good views
across
> >Grisedale. From the summit of St Sunday Crag descended
> >the ridge towards Fairfield bur dropped of the ridge down
> >towards Grisedale Tarn. Steep at
the
> >top but quickly flattening out. A really good path all
> >the way to the
tarn,
> >round the tarn and low gear again to get up Seat Sandal.
> >
> >So far the walk had been good, weather was sunny and
> >getting warmer and there were not too many people around.
> >The path up to Dollywagon however
was
> >another matter, lots of people going up and down..
> >Dropped down off Seat Sandal (almost due North) and then
> >straight up the steep southern face of Dollywagon. No
> >real path here just a wall to guide in the right
direction.
> >Came of the slope at the metal post on the path (? anyone
> >any idea what
the
> >post is about). Crossed the path and headed for the
> >summit of dollywagon followed by High Crag and Nethermost
> >Pike and finally Helvellyn. This bit
of
> >the walk was quite different crowds of people about.
> >Didn't stop on Helvellyn summit cause there was nowhere
> >to sit. Went round to Lower Man
and
> >then Whiteside. Stopped here for a late lunch and peace
> >again. The walk
down
> >to Raise was hard as I stiffened up and the climb to the
> >summit was not good, fortunately the walk down to Sticks
> >Pass was easier as I loosened
up.
> >The climb up to Stybarrow Dodd seemed long and I realised
> >I was getting quite tired. The original plan was to trot
> >along to Watson's Dodd and
Great
> >Dodd and then return to Stybarrow but after due
> >consideration I gave it a miss.
> >
> >Dropped down towards White Stones (Greenside) and
> >followed the path round to Hartside. Lovely walking here,
> >no path to speak of and no people. In
fact
> >the last person I had seen was at the Sticks Pass and I
> >didn't meet
anyone
> >else until I got back into Glenridding.. Another rest at
> >Hart Side and
then
> >the long gradual climb to the summit of White Stones.
> >Noticed here the batteries on my GPS had flattened so
> >changed them for the spares. Looking
at
> >the screen I had lost about a hundred metres. Started off
> >down the path towards Sheffield Pike and was surprised to
> >find myself very close to the edge of the disused
> >quarries. Not a place I like to be in cloud. Crossed Nick
> >Head and wondered about abandoning the rest of the route
> >and escape
by
> >dropping down to the mines but didn't in the end. Very
> >tired now with
knee
> >lateral ligament starting to play up. Top of Sheffield
> >Pike arrived and
went
> >past. The descant to Glenridding Dodd was painful and
> >slow but finally I
was
> >on the top of Glenridding Dodd. Last of water used up
> >here (cannot recall passing running water in the whole of
> >the day) together with last of
food.
> >The final walk down into Glenridding was taken slowly but
> >eventually
arrived
> >back at the car at 7.40pm very knackered but very pleased
> >with the day.
> >
> >All in all a great day, good views and much of the walk
> >done without too many people around.
> >
> >Walk summary
> >
> >17.77 miles Height Ascended 2061 metres Time 10 hours 40
> > minutes 13 Wainrights (10 of which were new to me)
> >
> >Oh well just done the Naismith calc which gives 9.27
> >hours for the walk.
I
> >am unfit.
> >
> >Mike Mason
> >
>
> Quite impressed by the fact you managed to do Helvellyn
> from Glenridding without going across striding or swirral
> edge. I must admit myself to walking on all of the route
> that you gave but on about 5 or 6 different occasions.
> --
> Gwyn. [email protected] **spam trap** remove
> rem if replying

Have to admit this was a peak bagging day. I've done
Striding and Swirral several times before in different
conditions so I didn't mind not visiting them again. Anyway
Striding Edge looked very busy so it wouldn't have been to
my taste. I enjoy walking in peace and quite.

My problem now is Watson Dodd and Great Dodd. It's going to
have to be another day to pick them off or rather a half
day. I'll have to do a bit of planning and see what else I
can 'tick off' in the area.

Mike

"Mike Mason" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...

snip

> Have to admit this was a peak bagging day. I've done
> Striding and Swirral several times before in different
> conditions so I didn't mind not visiting them again.
> Anyway Striding Edge looked very busy so it wouldn't have
> been to my taste. I enjoy walking in peace and quite.
>
> My problem now is Watson Dodd and Great Dodd. It's going
> to have to be another day to pick them off or rather a
> half day. I'll have to do a bit
of
> planning and see what else I can 'tick off' in the area.
>

If you want to 'tick off' some more you could perhaps go to
Keswick and take a bus or hike to Legburthwaite on the A591
(Thirlmere) and ascend the Dodd's from the west and turn
northwards to complete the ridge all the way to Clough Head
and than cross over to Blencathra and/or Skiddaw. A total of
27 km if you do them all.(more then half a day off course)
Ye olde AW's route.

Theo

Yes that's a thought and I could pick up High Rigg as well.
I think the day will start at the car park close to the
junction of the A591 and B5322. I'll go up the Sticks Pass
path and bag Stang (just off Raise), which is on list I'm
looking at. I can then go over Stybarrow Dodd, Watson's
Dodd, Great Dodd, Calfhow Pike and Clough Head. Then its
back to Calfhow Pike and drop down to a path coming up from
Beckthorns. Down this path and across to High Rigg by way of
Sosgill Bridge and finally back to the car. I might, if I
get an early start, then drive around to Gowbarrow (it's on
the way home anyway) and do Gowbarrow Fell. Then using the
car to move from fell to fell and take in Great and Little
Mell. The last three fells were always going to be a bit of
a problem with them being out of the main Lakes area. That
should give me a good days walk but a bit bitty.

Your suggestion of taking in Blencathra seems horrendous and
only 27ks. It seems to me much farther than that but when
you look on the map it is quite close. Think I'll give it a
miss though.Major problem would be transport back to
wherever the car is. I'm into circular walks cause I'm a bit
idle and that means that some walks get quite contrived.

Mike

"theo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Mason" <[email protected]> schreef in
> bericht news:v52yc.919$RE4.8481003@news-
> text.cableinet.net...
>
> snip
>
> > Have to admit this was a peak bagging day. I've done
> > Striding and
Swirral
> > several times before in different conditions so I didn't
> > mind not
visiting
> > them again. Anyway Striding Edge looked very busy so it
> > wouldn't have
been
> > to my taste. I enjoy walking in peace and quite.
> >
> > My problem now is Watson Dodd and Great Dodd. It's going
> > to have to be another day to pick them off or rather a
> > half day. I'll have to do a bit
> of
> > planning and see what else I can 'tick off' in the area.
> >
>
> If you want to 'tick off' some more you could perhaps go
> to Keswick and
take
> a bus or hike to Legburthwaite on the A591 (Thirlmere) and
> ascend the
Dodd's
> from the west and turn northwards to complete the ridge
> all the way to Clough Head and than cross over to
> Blencathra and/or Skiddaw. A total of
27
> km if you do them all.(more then half a day off course) Ye
> olde AW's
route.
>
> Theo

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:56:48 +0100, Roger <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>BTW welcome to the knackered knees club. I trust that you
>have a recoverable from affliction.

Well my physio promised me about 10 years ago that I'd have
arthritis by my 50s, and that's less than a decade away :-(

Not sure what the current problems is, I used to suffer
dreadfully but have been fine for a few years. Why it's come
back now I've no idea. OK, so we did about 32500 feet of
ascent and decent over the week, but that's not it because
my knees hurt before the end of day 1. Of course I ignored
the pain all week which probably didn't help ;-)

The message <[email protected]>
from Simon Caldwell <[email protected]> contains these words:

> >BTW welcome to the knackered knees club. I trust that you
> >have a recoverable from affliction.

> Well my physio promised me about 10 years ago that I'd
> have arthritis by my 50s, and that's less than a decade
> away :-(

I don't want to be a killjoy but ISTR that I was in my
mid 40s when my occasional knee problems suddenly became
much worse.

> Not sure what the current problems is, I used to suffer
> dreadfully but have been fine for a few years. Why it's
> come back now I've no idea. OK, so we did about 32500 feet
> of ascent and decent over the week, but that's not it
> because my knees hurt before the end of day 1. Of course I
> ignored the pain all week which probably didn't help ;-)

I have been down that road in the past and I am sure it
doesn't help in the long run.

Not sure whether my current knee problem is the same as in
previous instances as it doesn't feel rough when I agitate
the kneecap and it hurts going up steep ground as well as
descending. I found last weekend that if I kept to smooth
ground and didn't bend the knee more than about 10 degrees
at the very most I could get by with virtually no pain at
all but I had to be very careful with foot placements and
zigzag the steeper slopes.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 34 summits New - 18 (Marilyns
6, Sweats 1, Outlying Fells 11) Repeats - 16( Marilyns 5,
Sweats 11, Wainwrights 11) Knackered knee - 4 times

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 22:31:20 +0100, Simon Caldwell
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:56:48 +0100, Roger
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>BTW welcome to the knackered knees club. I trust that you
>>have a recoverable from affliction.
>
>Well my physio promised me about 10 years ago that I'd have
>arthritis by my 50s, and that's less than a decade away :-(
>
>Not sure what the current problems is, I used to suffer
>dreadfully but have been fine for a few years. Why it's
>come back now I've no idea. OK, so we did about 32500 feet
>of ascent and decent over the week, but that's not it
>because my knees hurt before the end of day 1. Of course I
>ignored the pain all week which probably didn't help ;-)

Even as someone with no medical training I think I could
safely confirm your latter assumption. Funnily enough, pain
has a purpose - it usually means "stop" ;-) I did
*something* to one knee a few months back, outer ligament I
think, and couldn't even walk briskly for a mile without it
bothering me. Rest and/or compression bandages seemed to be
doing bugger all good, and I was about to go see a sports
physio, but it was Easter, so I bought a load of ibuprofen
instead. Bingo ! It can't have been all pain relief - there
must have been some inflammation that was not obvious
externally. Worked a treat.

--
Never put off till tomorrow what you can ignore entirely.

Mail john rather than nospam...

John Laird wrote on Tue, 15 Jun 2004 20:41:27 +0100....
> [snip] so I bought a load of ibuprofen instead. Bingo ! It
> can't have been all pain relief - there must have been
> some inflammation that was not obvious externally. Worked
> a treat.

I did my back in a few years ago. The doctor said it wasn't
serious but I should rest for a while until it got better.
He asked if I'd taken anything, and I said ibuprofen. He
said good, and that I should keep on taking it to help the
inflammation, but to take paracetamol *as well* for the
pain. (But I do use ibuprofen alone for pain relief in other
circumstances.)

--
Tim Jackson [email protected] (Change
'.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct) Absurd patents:
visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

Roger wrote:

> from Simon Caldwell

>> Not sure what the current problems is, I used to suffer
>> dreadfully but have been fine for a few years. Why it's
>> come back now I've no idea.

Have you had a long layoff? That's the first thing that
springs to mind. I always find that if I've been inactive
for a while, doing a steep hill with no prior training is a
sure way of making the problem recur. In such cases I make a
point of doing a few easy walks first, flattish walks first
(coastal), then a few smaller hills, gradually increasing
the steepness. This gives the muscles around the knees a
chance to build up some strength, because they do tend to
waste away when not used regularly. Another technique is to
do leg extension exercises to strengthen the muscles.

>> OK, so we did about 32500 feet of ascent and decent over
>> the week, but that's not it because my knees hurt before
>> the end of day
>> 1. Of course I ignored the pain all week which probably
>> didn't help ;-)
>
> I have been down that road in the past and I am sure it
> doesn't help in the long run.

Definitely not.

> Not sure whether my current knee problem is the same as in
> previous instances as it doesn't feel rough when I agitate
> the kneecap and it hurts going up steep ground as well as
> descending. I found last weekend that if I kept to smooth
> ground and didn't bend the knee more than about 10 degrees
> at the very most I could get by with virtually no pain at
> all but I had to be very careful with foot placements and
> zigzag the steeper slopes.

A tight knee support helps to prevent you bending the knee
too much (and gives support if you do).

Sorry to keep banging on about walking poles, but they
really are a great aid. Did my first longish hill walk
for years today (long by my standards anyway) and had no
knee problems, even though I could feel the strain in my
right knee on the first ascent. The point I want to make
though is regarding your comments about smooth ground.
Poles give you the extra balance necessary for crossing
rough ground without problems, preventing you from
leaning sideways if you step awkwardly. They remove a lot
of the lateral stresses that you normally encounter when
keeping yourself balanced.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:19:17 +0100, Tim Jackson
<[email protected]> wrote:

> He said good, and that I should keep on taking it to help
> the inflammation, but to take paracetamol *as well* for
> the pain. (But I do use ibuprofen alone for pain relief in
> other circumstances.)

He said that because, contrary to the common belief an NSAID
(of which ibuprofen is weak example) has no specific
analgesic [pain killing] influence... y'see you take
analgesics for analgesia and an NSAID to reduce inflamation
(NSAID = Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drug)

Reducing inflammation can have a [relatively] medium-term
effect on reducing "pressure from inflammation" and hence
a possible effect on pain receptors and hence the need for
analgesia, but there's little specific and direct
analgesic effect.

Again, sorry, if I'm coming across as a bit tetchy on this
;-) but it really bugs me when the advertising folk blur
the lines. Ibuprofen might have a [slightly] demonstrable
analgesic effect but is not an analgesic [pain killer] its
a [weak] non-steroidal anti-inflammatory with some
analgesic effect.

Your GP was spot on wth his advice. If you continue to use
an NSAID [specifically] for pain relief, you're a noddy,
believe me your GP knows more than you do.

Not for nothing is ibuprofen referred to as "the pink
placebo"


SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

The message <[email protected]>
from "Paul Saunders" <[email protected]> contains these words:

> Roger wrote:

> > from Simon Caldwell

> >> Not sure what the current problems is, I used to suffer
> >> dreadfully but have been fine for a few years. Why it's
> >> come back now I've no idea.

> Have you had a long layoff? That's the first thing that
> springs to mind. I always find that if I've been inactive
> for a while, doing a steep hill with no prior training is
> a sure way of making the problem recur. In such cases I
> make a point of doing a few easy walks first, flattish
> walks first (coastal), then a few smaller hills, gradually
> increasing the steepness. This gives the muscles around
> the knees a chance to build up some strength, because they
> do tend to waste away when not used regularly. Another
> technique is to do leg extension exercises to strengthen
> the muscles.

My knee problems occurred first this year after a short
layoff and on what I considered an easy walk (albeit the
hardest walk in Wainrights Outlying Fells). However it was
cold and windy. I have since had several longer layoffs in
an attempt to cure the problem.

> >> OK, so we did about 32500 feet of ascent and decent
> >> over the week, but that's not it because my knees hurt
> >> before the end of day
> >> 1. Of course I ignored the pain all week which
> >> probably didn't help ;-)
> >
> > I have been down that road in the past and I am sure it
> > doesn't help in the long run.

> Definitely not.

> > Not sure whether my current knee problem is the same as
> > in previous instances as it doesn't feel rough when I
> > agitate the kneecap and it hurts going up steep ground
> > as well as descending. I found last weekend that if I
> > kept to smooth ground and didn't bend the knee more than
> > about 10 degrees at the very most I could get by with
> > virtually no pain at all but I had to be very careful
> > with foot placements and zigzag the steeper slopes.

> A tight knee support helps to prevent you bending the knee
> too much (and gives support if you do).

The knee support I eventually got stopped the knee bending
very much at all and was so uncomfortable that walking any
distance was a definite no-no.

Sorry to keep banging on about walking poles, but they
really are a
> great aid. Did my first longish hill walk for years today
> (long by my standards anyway) and had no knee problems,
> even though I could feel the strain in my right knee on
> the first ascent. The point I want to make though is
> regarding your comments about smooth ground. Poles give
> you the extra balance necessary for crossing rough ground
> without problems, preventing you from leaning sideways if
> you step awkwardly. They remove a lot of the lateral
> stresses that you normally encounter when keeping yourself
> balanced.

The smooth ground comment was as much about avoiding step-
ups as avoiding difficult placings. Poles I have tried and I
just don't have the arm strength to use them for more than a
limited period.

I was in South Wales for an annual reunion last weekend and
did a couple of easy Marilyns on Friday on the way down
without problem and a supposedly easy walk on Saturday with
the group before venturing out on my own on Sunday.
According to the GPS Saturday was 10.4 miles and 1700 feet
of ascent in 7 hours which shouldn't have done my knee in
(but did) while the Sunday stroll was 12.3 miles and 3000
feet of ascent in 5 hours. The main difference was that
Saturday included a fair amount of rough ground (up the Afon
Twrc and then East across the bundu) while Sunday was just
Fan Hir to Waun Lefrith and return.

I was having my lunch by the cairn near the summit of Waun
Lefrith (the summit area itself being occupied by a school
party) when the party decamped and drifted past me in small
groups. As they passed me 2 young boys were arguing about
whether they were at 750 feet or 750 metres. Even the one
using metres was being a bit premature as Waun Lefrith is
only 677m and the summit of Bannau Sir Gaer only 749m.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 34 summits New - 18 (Marilyns
6, Sweats 1, Outlying Fells 11) Repeats - 16( Marilyns 5,
Sweats 11, Wainwrights 11) Knackered knee - 4 times

Steve Orrell wrote on Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:39:20 +0100....
> Reducing inflammation can have a [relatively] medium-term
> effect on reducing "pressure from inflammation" and hence
> a possible effect on pain receptors and hence the need for
> analgesia

Probably why ibuprofen works for me.

--
Tim Jackson [email protected] (Change
'.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct) Absurd patents:
visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:39:20 +0100, Steve Orrell wrote:

>Not for nothing is ibuprofen referred to as "the pink
>placebo"

At 2p/tablet, it was a darn sight better than having my knee
aching all the time, even if it was a placebo effect. Didn't
cost the NHS a bean, either!

PS Only Nurofen is pink.

--
If all the world's a stage I sure got lousy seats...

Mail john rather than nospam...