Caffeine=Rubbish

Unregistered wrote:
> It's official. Drinking coffee before trainning doesn't enhance
> performance....



Try telling that to Alex Watson, in retrospect.



--

This week. What will the findings be next week? Depends on who is paying for
an opinion I guess.

"Unregistered" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:40d3669e$1@news1...
> It's official. Drinking coffee before trainning doesn't enhance
> performance....
>
> "We found the caffeine had no beneficial effect on resting heart rate,
blood
> pressure, reaction time, concentration, plasma triglycerides, blood
glucose
> or exercise performance," Dr Melissa Crowe, of Queensland's James Cook
> University said..
>
>
> http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,9881539-23218,00.html
>
>

Originally posted by Unregistered
>It's official. Drinking coffee before trainning doesn't enhance
>performance....

Uh.. not exactly.. try reading the whole article:

"In endurance sports, caffeine has been shown to help in low amounts"

-

"Dr Crowe found caffeine could cause tremors, nausea, agitation,
hallucinations and an increase in the time taken to reach peak power."

Hallucinations?!?! What sort of caffeine were they feeding them?! Sounds
like a decaf manufacturer has paid for a study

-

What about the other studies that have shown caffeine to have a
beneficial effect or no effect? This study sounds excessively negative
towards caffeine.

-

If it is so bad, why do sprinters use it to get their heart rates up
before an effort and endurance racers use it to free fat stores for use
in place of valuable glycogen stores?

My advice - read more than this article before dismissing caffeine.

hippy



--

"hippy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Originally posted by Unregistered
> >It's official. Drinking coffee before trainning doesn't enhance
> >performance....
>
> Uh.. not exactly.. try reading the whole article:
>
> "In endurance sports, caffeine has been shown to help in low amounts"
>
> -
>
> "Dr Crowe found caffeine could cause tremors, nausea, agitation,
> hallucinations and an increase in the time taken to reach peak power."
>
> Hallucinations?!?! What sort of caffeine were they feeding them?! Sounds
> like a decaf manufacturer has paid for a study
>
> -
>
> What about the other studies that have shown caffeine to have a
> beneficial effect or no effect? This study sounds excessively negative
> towards caffeine.
>
> -
>
> If it is so bad, why do sprinters use it to get their heart rates up
> before an effort and endurance racers use it to free fat stores for use
> in place of valuable glycogen stores?
>
> My advice - read more than this article before dismissing caffeine.
>
> hippy

Gianni Bugno likes his coffee strong and it never slowed him down.

Marty "Short white" Wallace

Unregistered wrote:
> It's official. Drinking coffee before trainning doesn't enhance
> performance....
> "We found the caffeine had no beneficial effect on resting heart rate,
> blood pressure, reaction time, concentration, plasma triglycerides,
> blood glucose or exercise performance," Dr Melissa Crowe, of
> Queensland's James Cook University said..
> http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,9881539-
> http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,9881539- 23218,00.html



bad coffee has a detrimental effect on my performance



--

wrote:
> If it is so bad, why do sprinters use it to get their heart rates up
> before an effort and endurance racers use it to free fat stores for use
> in place of valuable glycogen stores?



The more modern research suggests that this isn't why endurance
athletes use caffeine. The advantages are likely to be to do with
lowering the level of perceived exertion and possibly changes in
muscular chemistry. The main problem is securing a chemically pure form
of caffeine fit for human consumption, as there is some evidence other
compounds in coffee negate the effect (although my experience suggests
it certainly doesn't completely negate the effects). If you want to
find out more about caffeine or any other possible ergogenic aid, I
recommend the AIS website and the supplement fact sheets available in
the sports nutrition section.



--

ProfTournesol wrote:
> bad coffee has a detrimental effect on my performance



Vote 1 - ProfTournesol !!!

<reaches for semi-decent flat-white, inhales aroma and feels semi-ready
to take on another day of workin for 'the man'>



--

flyingdutch wrote:
>
> ProfTournesol wrote:
> > bad coffee has a detrimental effect on my performance
>
> Vote 1 - ProfTournesol !!!
>
> <reaches for semi-decent flat-white, inhales aroma and feels semi-ready
> to take on another day of workin for 'the man'>
>
> --
I submitted a research progress report the other day, it asked for
problems that had delayed me and if solutions had been found. I wrote:
Problem - I wasn't drinking enough coffee to be really productive.
Solution - Our research group has purchased an espresso machine and
grinder. I am back up to several cups per day.

I think my supervisor missed it and passed it up through the chain as
is. Uh oh.

Tam

Oh ****, said nothing about bikes. Um, bikes are good.

Unregistered wrote:
> It's official. Drinking coffee before trainning doesn't enhance
> performance....
> "l



Soooooooooooooo.. that means coffee isn't a racing/training
supplement ;-P

With a thumbs up to Prof T and Flying Dutch.. bring it on



--

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:04:00 +1000, Unregistered wrote:

> It's official. Drinking coffee before trainning doesn't enhance
> performance....
>
> "We found the caffeine had no beneficial effect on resting heart rate, blood
> pressure, reaction time, concentration, plasma triglycerides, blood glucose
> or exercise performance," Dr Melissa Crowe, of Queensland's James Cook
> University said..

Geeze, everyone knows that!

It's the cake and biscuits you have with the
coffee on the break in the middle of your ride
that effects performance.

-kt

have a look at the PDF attachment......

this study shows that caffeine is beneficial

I drink flat coke as a pick-me-up on my long rides 4h+ for a long lasting energy boost on
the way back.
If you ever see a guy with a dark liquid in his 2nd bottle - that's me.

"Unregistered" <[email protected]> wrote:

>It's official. Drinking coffee before trainning doesn't enhance
>performance....
>
>"We found the caffeine had no beneficial effect on resting heart rate, blood
>pressure, reaction time, concentration, plasma triglycerides, blood glucose
>or exercise performance," Dr Melissa Crowe, of Queensland's James Cook
>University said..
>
>
>http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,9881539-23218,00.html
>

begin 644 Coffee Questioned Article.pdf
M)5!$1BTQ+C4-)>+CS],-"C$T(#`@;V)J(#P\+TQI;F5A<FEZ960@,2],(#$V
M,30W-B]/(#$W+T4@-C$X,38O3B`R+U0@,38Q,30Y+T@@6R`U,S8@,30R73X^
M#65N9&]BT@("`@("`@("`@("`@("`@#0IX<F5F#0HQ-"`Q,@T*,#`P,#`P
M,#`Q-B`P,#`P,"!N#0HP,#`P,#`P-C<X(#`P,#`P(&X-"C`P,#`P,#`U,S8@
M,#`P,#`@;@T*,#`P,#`P,#<T,"`P,#`P,"!N#0HP,#`P,#`Q,3DR(#`P,#`P
M(&X-"C`P,#`P,#$T,#D@,#`P,#`@;@T*,#`P,#`P-3,X-B`P,#`P,"!N#0HP
M,#`P,#`U-S8X(#`P,#`P(&X-"C`P,#`P,#8Q-C$@,#`P,#`@;@T*,#`P,#`R
M,3(X."`P,#`P,"!N#0HP,#`P,#0U.3(Y(#`P,#`P(&X-"C`P,#`P-C$U,C,@
M,#`P,#`@;@T*=')A:6QE<@T*/#PO4VEZ92`R-B]0<F5V(#$V,3$S."]2;V]T
M(#$U(#`@4B]);F9O(#$S(#`@4B])1%L\-V,V9#<Q-F5F-6)A-3`T-V(S,#!E
M9F$P9#,Y,S=F,C0^/#$W,F,S8C(T-#5E-F-D-#AB-#AD,31B8S5F9#,T8SEE
M/ET^/@T*<W1A<G1X<F5F#0HP#0HE)45/1@T*("`@("`@("`@("`@#0HQ-B`P
M(&]B:CP\+TQE;F=T:"`V.2]&:6QT97(O1FQA=&5$96-O9&4O4R`T-3X^<W1R
M96%M#0IXVF)@8.!D8&`*8V!D8'@WA4&``0$@;!8&#@<&AO:;$`P'G%#,P'"3
M@9_Q&@-#:0-7@!A?__HM-H(,,Q@8``(,`'2;"RP-"F5N9'-T<F5A;0UE;F1O
M8FH-,34@,"!O8FH\/"]086=E<R`Q,2`P(%(O5'EP92]#871A;&]G+TUE=&%D
M871A(#$R(#`@4CX^#65N9&]BTQ-R`P(&]B:CP\+T-O;G1E;G1S(#$X(#`@
M4B]4>7!E+U!A9V4O4&%R96YT(#$Q(#`@4B]2;W1A=&4@,"]-961I84)O>%LP
M(#`@-3,W(#$R,C1=+T-R;W!";WA;,"XP(#0X,"XP(#4S-RXW,#`P,3(@,3(R
M-"XP.3DY-S9=+U)E<V]U<F-E<SP\+UA/8FIE8W0\/"\U(#$Y(#`@4B\S(#(P
M(#`@4B\T(#(Q(#`@4B\V(#(R(#`@4B\W(#(T(#`@4CX^+U!R;V-3971;+U!$
M1B]);6%G94)=/CXO4&EE8V5);F9O/#PO06-R;W-C86XQ(#(U(#`@4B]!8W)O
M<V-A;C(\/"],87-T36]D:69I960H1#HR,#`T,#0R,S$V-34Q,2LQ,"<P,"<I
M+U!R:79A=&4\/"]#;VQU;6YS(#0T.#`O4F]W<R`V,C`P+T-O;&]R<R`Q+U!R
M96-I<VEO;B`Q+T984F5S(#8P,"XP+T994F5S(#8P,"XP+T98365D:6$@-RXT
M-R]9365D:6$@,3<N,#X^/CX^/B],87-T36]D:69I960H1#HR,#`T,#0R,S$V
M-34Q,2LQ,"<P,"<I/CX-96YD;V)J#3$X(#`@;V)J/#PO3&5N9W1H(#$T."]&
M:6QT97(O1FQA=&5$96-O9&4^/G-T<F5A;0T*2(ELC<$-PS`(1>^9@@7L`L8V
MW+M`9L@YJK+_I;9QDRJM+!GT>0\.P&AFDB%@Q)0XPU5]0!RS22M<HZ8*V]Y&
MQ`CCG=VV+P?0:/L?"J-V5D0=*%3+).%1X?F"M1D\(NX8!$)W=(3YPM,=IWXV
MF'$?DX.B)R\_/+?U\N$QS=RN$_FODDW%E;E=OI3BRKJ\!1@`(5E`NPT*96YD
M<W1R96%M#65N9&]BTQ.2`P(&]B:CP\+TQE;F=T:"`S.#,R+T9I;'1E<B]$
M0U1$96-O9&4O5VED=&@@,3`S,B](96EG:'0@,CDV+T)I='-097)#;VUP;VYE
M;G0@."]#;VQO<E-P86-E+T1E=FEC94=R87DO4W5B='EP92]);6%G93X^<W1R
M96%M#0K_V/_N`!-!9&]B90!D@``````%``(`"?_;`$,`%1(2.A4Z2S`P2T(X
M+SA"1T1`0$1'1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='
M1T='1T='1__```L(`2@$"`$!$0#_Q`!8``$``@,!`0```````````````0(#
M!`4&!Q`!``(``@4'!PP!!`,```````$"$0,QD1($!2%!4=%"4@9A<8&AL<$6
M\.$B8G*"DJ+2$Q05,O&RPN(C,T/_V@`(`0$``#\`]@``````````````````
M````````````````&+'.?6-,QKA'\FG>KKA2V^Y=--Z1]Z%?['*[]/Q1UJVX
MIE5TWIKB?8Q?W63WX]?4BW',BO;C5/4I/B#(CM?EMU,=O$>3'/.J4?$F3];4
MQ3XHRNB^J/U,<^*J<U;>I'Q73N6UPI/BR.Y.'VOF1;Q9'-3\WS,5O%=N:U
M?BNW<KKE6WBK,G16OKGWPI\4YO135;]2MO$^;;1%8]'7*GQ)G=-=3'/B'/GM
M?EKU*WX]GW[6J(CW/2^'M]MO5)VYVK5MZL/]7:``````````````````````
M``,43TL?\`)IWJZX4G?LN.W3\4=\2RH[=/Q0I/%LF.W76QVXYDU[<:IG
MV0K_`'^1W_RVZF.WB+)KSS/W95^),GIMJ4MXGRHT1>?1'6K\4971?5'ZE+^*
MLN-%;3JCWRK\5U[EM<,<^+(YJ<GVOF1\6?4_-_U5MXLGFI^;YF.?%=NY77*M
MO%69.BM?7UJ?%.;T4U3^I6WB?-GFK'HGK4^),[ZNICMXASY[6'W:]2/[_/[W
MY:]2MN.Y]NWZJ]2D\9SI[<JSQ?.GMVUL?]CF]^_XIZU+;[F7TVM/WI5_DW[U
MM<JVS9MIF9]*F(```````/8^%8_\=I^M[H>B``````````````1M8*3G5KIF
M-:L[U2--JZX5MOV773>D?>ACGBF5';IKA6W%LFO;KK8[<<R:]N-4S[(4GQ!D
M1VORVZF+XDR>FVH^),GIMJ8Y\494<U]4?J5GQ3E=%]4?J8_BNG<MKA6?%=>:
MDZ_F5^+([GYO^JEO%D\U/S?,Q_%=NY77*+>*K\U:^OYF/XIS>BFJ?U'Q3F]%
M-4_J8Y\2YT]W4CXDSNFNIBGQ!GSVORUZE;<=S[=OU5ZF/^XSN_9$\7SI[=M:
MG]EF]^_XI5GB&9/;O^*>MC_DW[UM<HG/M.F9UL>)B`````````````````#U
MOA2WT;QY8^7J>F````,5+9U::9B/2I.]4CM5UPI??\NFF]?Q0P_W&3WZHGC.
M3';JI/'<B.WZK=2E_$&33M8^ZE/B/)Z9U2CXDR>FVI%O$N3'>GT?.QSXIR
MNB^J/U,<^*J<U;>I'Q77N6UPK\5QW)_%\S%;Q7/-3\WS(^*Y[D?B^92?%5^:
MM?6Q?%.;T4U3^I6WB;-MHBL>CKE7XBSNFNI2?$&??1^['OA-.-;QF:+?EK
MU,5N,9]^W/JCW*SQ3.CEVY8K<4S;]N^N8]BL\0S8[=_Q3UL=M\S+Z;6G[TJ_
MR+=ZVN5;9LWTS,^E3$```````````````````````````!ZKPG_]/N_\F.?%
M=N:V.WBK,YJU]?6I/BC-Z*:I_4B/$^;'-35/6I;Q+G3W8]"D^(\[IC\,,=
M^/Y]^UAYHCJ4GC6=/;GU*_W&=W[,=N)YMNW?\4J6W[,OIO>?O2I_(MWK:Y5M
MFS?3,SZ5,0``````Q(G!:;HVC%``````````````````````````````/4^$
M_P#Z?=_Y/+``````````````````````````````````````````#TOA3_*_
MFCVO-``````````````````````````````````````````#T?A6?IVCZOO>
M<``````````````````````````````````````````'?\+?^V?L3[:N````
M```````````````````````````````````````.YX9MAG>>L^YPP```````
M``````````````````````````````````!VO#<X9T?9EQ0`````````````
M````````````````````````````!UO#T_\`GK][_;+D@```````````````
M``````````````````````````#J^'[89]?+M?[9<H``````````````````
M````````````````````````=/@,8Y]/3_MES```````````````````````
M```````````````````!T>"SAG4\_NES@```````````````````````````
M``````````````!O<)Q_>IAWH`````````````````````````````````
M`````````V^&7V,VD_7KZYP``````````````````````````$@```````
M```````#/N5MG,I/UJ^U@```````````````````````````````````````
M```&7=O\Z_:CVL0``````````````````````````````````````````R[O
M_E7[4>UB````````````````````````````````!*`````````%LNVQ,3T2
MJ``````````````````````````````````````````$````````````````
M```````````````````````````0````````````````````````````````
M`````8```````````````````````````````````````````!)$X$SB````
M`````````````)V4"8C%```````````````````````:````````````````
M`P,$X,N7D3?'EB,.GG4B=E$51$8IM./(KH``(Y1.*```````````````````
M`````````````````6C+F8Q1$-S+W/;B)YO)IAM4ROWHFD1HY=KGB//T,=LB
M-F)G">68QCH\ONY_4P1$5CE3FYD5C"(B<>?G:LQCRK3;#0QS*9G%4````#``
M``````````````````````@D3:<4````````"=EGR=UG,\W2W,SAEIB)B,,-
M,SR1+JTX-.[Q$S/HP]J,CAM:3C$\LZEHW>F3/TIPVM,HSL^-RK,16-G,B8B<
M?1[W!I:,N)C'E:UIY43.*``````#$#``````````!,H`````````````D```
M````(C%:E<9=;=.#6WC1&'EEZ7=.%_MUB+Q$VC4W/X-)G&89,VE<V)K;0YN=
MONS.S:8B.?RQ\NAP+;YA-MCZ-<>2&AF;U.9.+#F9TSR3/(PF*```````!-;8
M$\O*;/.@````````%_VYPVN;1Z5`````````````"0``````&7(W>V\3LUC&
M>AZ;AW`ZYM<;Q-;P[&Z\)R]WT5B9B<<9TM_'!,RT=XWJEI_;M.&/RTM'>K1E
M4F*SS<G*\_.3F6PG"?2U-O':VM,M:U<-"J`````````6B6W&[QF4C9G',F9Q
MKY/E\N1JYF5.5.%HPE0```````!.US(````````````"$RB0`````!:F7-]#
MM;GP*^=$3/)6W/SX>;V/6[ON5<C1$8QR8X<NMM8")KBU=YRJVC9MSN9FYFQ7
M8O,=$>7R^=YV*XS-L<)CFZ?EI:U;6QPF9F&+,RYII1,81BBUL5`````````;
M>Y[[.[;488UO&$PU8G#0RXVS>3EMZV&8P`````````""0```````3-L4`"<$
M`";3C*``````=+A6YQO-IVM%8Q>QX?NE*UQK$?2\CH1&`*VM@P6S9YE-ZOA6
M9PY7$OFS>LS>*SR?1Z<>GY>YQ\[>/W/H<F$3CCSXM.<W9G#F4MF3+%,`````
M`````+4S)R^6)PET-N-\PC9^GSS'/Z&EG[O;(G"T82Q```````````$R``&&
M),8```8"9MB@#$`%LSEF<.E4````!DR,F<^T5C3+O[EP2^3.U;#S1RN]NV5&
MZ85MR[?/A[?<Z%:Q&A84MCS-.]K;41:/O<WF+6PG9GDG3Z&EO&]S3'E\SSF=
MG3-MN9QOT^7F:EJ3I8+<JN*T3B6K@J`````````#+D9]MWG:K.$PZ]]SG?JQ
M?MS'H<2U=F<)0````````````)B<$!$X+6MM*@`"<4```)E?/C"TQY9]K&``
M``#-DTBW^3K<.X7?&N97"U<?2]I3+V8Z?*O@K7+BLS,:9TK`U=\SXR8B9G#E
M>>XCQ'9S(M$3AL_BCI\CB[YFSO-L>:=$?+I6R8_B6^E"V9FUS)Y8V8\C5S<G
M#EC0UQ,60``````````]!P'><9C+M/T>S#:X_P`(B(G.II[4>K'KU^?RH!$8
MDQ@```````2````$```````,^^1A>WVK>U@````$UC&<(>PX3P:,F=JV%XG1
MY)=Z,J*P1D7F\8S&'D901-HA$WB'#X[Q",J/VYC':C3T?.\S.=6U9CGZ67
M=LF:Q&968FV/)$_.ULV]HF=K2C]R+\J*YO-+#F4V)5E$@`````````"8Y7T7
M<,Z-XI$3CCAA:+>_SO#<3W3^)F6IAA&.-?LSHZO/$M(``````````````&2F
M7M<^#'(````&+=XK38SKQ]:?7RM(```!-*[7(]+P;AU=[C;MR6I,88>3EY7J
MZ4BFA81$XI4QPECRLJ,J-ER]_O7>:6K$_2KRZGG\C*G-CEQOAHC3@T,_=;9'
M+,3$<V/.O%]NNQ&E3,R]F-/*P5MLEIQ1B@``````````![;PUFSF9<XSC,3A
MYH8_$^Y_N4C,C33DG[,]4Z//+QH``````````````````!,8`-_C'_NO]IH`
M```1&+K\,W*F?;"\S7NSS3Y.IZ_<N'UW/'8Q^EIQ\C=!6N',LQYG)RM*_$*5
MOLVF(F/>U>(WRYQK,_2GGYX\_P`M#7RLB=PB;3R^2'%XQO4Y^ST=#G4M.B-+
MH[KPG,WV)F.3#O<GN8M\W.FZ1-9MM9ODT1Y)^7D<X```````````'I_"N=A-
MJ=.$ZO\`5Z;>=WC>:S2=%HP^?T:7S7-RYRIFLZ:S,3Z%````````````````
M`7F^,8*`!,X@/__9#0IE;F1S=')E86T-96YD;V)J#3(P(#`@;V)J/#PO3&5N
M9W1H(#(T,B]&:6QT97(O1$-41&5C;V1E+U=I9'1H(#@O2&5I9VAT(#4V+T)I
M='-097)#;VUP;VYE;G0@."]#;VQO<E-P86-E+T1E=FEC94=R87DO4W5B='EP
M92]);6%G93X^<W1R96%M#0K_V/_N`!-!9&]B90!D@``````%``(`"?_;`$,`
M%1(2.A4Z2S`P2T(X+SA"1T1`0$1'1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='
M1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1__```L(`#@`"`$!$0#_Q``Z```#`0``````
M```````````#!`8"$``!`@0$!P`````````````!`@,`$1($(4$%!C%1D7*2
MLE/_V@`(`0$``#\`<T_<*KIP-E(%68,3^DF3R.Z%F7C;J"QQ29B#6XD\D'Z#
MVC3::'P#DX)^4!*J7)JR7CUQBFO-M%Y16E4JB3(CG'__V0T*96YD<W1R96%M
M#65N9&]BTR,2`P(&]B:CP\+TQE;F=T:"`R-3(O1FEL=&5R+T1#5$1E8V]D
M92]7:61T:"`Q-B](96EG:'0@-#@O0FET<U!E<D-O;7!O;F5N="`X+T-O;&]R
M4W!A8V4O1&5V:6-E1W)A>2]3=6)T>7!E+TEM86=E/CYS=')E86T-"O_8_^X`
M$T%D;V)E`&2```````4``@`)_]L`0P`5$A(Z%3I+,#!+0C@O.$)'1$!`1$='
M1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='_\``
M"P@`,``0`0$1`/_$`#T``0`#`0````````````````<#!`8%$``!`@,'!`,`
M```````````!``(1(0-189&Q$B($,4%2(Q0%!O_:``@!`0``/P#7N<&S,E%\
MIGDW$(\K\JIRS!Q+C&0O-G9=^E^5EN?NN$EGGGV6;L)I+1G6.MYO<<TF(VY<
M6U76AYS22%3?]92J'46-+NL8*XO_V0T*96YD<W1R96%M#65N9&]BTR,B`P
M(&]B:CP\+TQE;F=T:"`Q-#DX,2]&:6QT97(O1$-41&5C;V1E+U=I9'1H(#$P
M-#@O2&5I9VAT(#0Y-B]":71S4&5R0V]M<&]N96YT(#@O0V]L;W)3<&%C92]$
M979I8V5'<F%Y+U-U8G1Y<&4O26UA9V4^/G-T<F5A;0T*_]C_[@`3061O8F4`
M9(``````!0`"``G_VP!#`!42$CH5.DLP,$M"."\X0D=$0$!$1T='1T='1T='
M1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T='1T?_P``+"`'P!!@!
M`1$`_\0`6@`!``$%`0````````````````(!`P0%!@<0``(!`@,$!@<%"`,!
M`0`#```!`A$#(3$$05$2!6%QD2(3!O"!H;'1,D+!X5)R%/%B@I*B,Q46LB-#
MPN+28]/_V@`(`0$``#\`P.?JE^7J_P"*-6`````#+T6D>KEP1SS.TY;HO!3C
M)*FQ8,V@!"%SC))<)2;:6&9AV[LVW6E%VU.3UJ@JTK*5?F^XL/5K=WMK*ZCF
MLKD?#]5>@M:?E5S4KBA&L>M+WLG#5QTRX5"+FOJ>\O2\PW7DTO4:F4N+%E``
M````````````````;3DLG&Y'A;XFZ>K;[#OS@.?6O"O2Z:/M7QJ:L```````
M````````````!@`K$E.52`"50`````*G5>4__3^'_P"CJ3@>?Q<;\J]'N1J@
M`````='Y:TKXG-K"E*G61BT\<BX0E*AB<$K;JL:[#*M-OYL^@7*+-T,)Z]8O
M*F\P=9S%0@I1=)S6'VU]QS%S4US6)CW;G%LH9&@TBU+K-\,%\S-MK>>*S2%C
M",<*_#XO/W\ZWQ8LH``````````````````#>>6[:G=KMC%M>X[<XOS1&EU/
M?!>]F@``````````````````````3H5<JE`2(@`````ZKRG_`.G\/_T=2</Y
ME5+W\*-(`````5BJG><DL>%"M:\6)MBU=N*.+="SI+48JBWF1*:C@8M^,XRX
MHM9?*ZTZ^LM7M0KT:Y=#]/1'.<VFE3AZ:[O3[C4JXF6[J+8`````````````
M```````.A\K67*Y*6R,:=K^YG9',>;(X0?3+[#DP"2A4JK9EVM-&O?=%T%QZ
M'@3E].Q]`T^B_4Y=NSUFPER%I5;QW+(R=/Y?A?C5J49%BYY7E7NR5.DUNHY+
M=L5?#6*VKW[_`&&M````````````````````````.C\JW:3E'8XU[']YV!Q7
MFA4NK\B][-"`````9.CLN[)16#;S/0-!8E8@HR=9;S*:J:Z]:A*E>]06-0M1
M6*6"P;^'Q(VK'Z=4QEC6K):NR]2J)T:=4S3<^U2E&*QP>/IVF@O:CQ'T;%N,
M9LH`````````````````````=?Y5L\,)3_$Z=G[3I#G/-4B_WOL./H9,+2
MIO95676JR+LEA5X2;^4N:NXI2C&$:4236^6_UEUV$_E3PSJ;6SI?"[D\:[-A
M<N6?T[3MJD'\^[K]/M-Q"VVJ&3%4*@UU[DUJ]5N*J_4<AS7E,M`]\'E+['T^
M_M2U@`````````````````*U"*)5````.A\K2I<DOW/M1V1Q_FJ/?B_W?M.<
M`````-CRR#G<BJT5?<>A&GYCK/!:56J[OM*VYQTZXG273'&OQ+L5QRK4Q.9:
MGNN*=:[4:2YSFY;:Q^7V]>\P-=K'JWQ2S,,``````````````````%RQ%2DE
M+Y6U7J+NNM1LS<8/BBLF8P`!Z)RJR[-N*>&'IZ]YGF%S+0+7Q46Z4=??\3A9
M6ZR:W,REH)2[SP6PS%R?PX\4I)5QI0UST[P=SY=G49CY=/4-2MIN&R3H;K24
MFN%8\&$GO9=LZ&49N3=8/*.XS(Z%+BKE+-;/3>948\."*@`A>LJ^G&2K%YHX
M'FG*Y:&6^V_EE]CZ?>:T````````````````-U`#=16@`"``-YY9E2[UQ?V,
M[<Y7S9'Y'^;_`.3E@````#IN0:%W7XCR6STV'4W946&9SG,+GC7%:G1*JQ72
M95C21\3!+PXK!YUZ^G["FJDK4VHMQI2OX3"_61NOAC2'"ZN:R=/C[33\SF[T
MW)]78:\``````````````````````S>5V8WKL8S^5OT1Z,`6+NCA=QE%-FNL
MXIJBJ7)\N;P;XJ_P!/44AR:+5)]ZF6RALK=M6THK!(I"Q&#;2HWF7````8
MG,-$M;!P?J>Y^GL/.)1<71X-%```````````````````*```&Z\M.E[^%G<G
M+>;/_/\`B_\`DY4````%8JITW+;[BHJVWBUQQ=,%M^XW/,]0M)!R?4NLXR<W
MJ76F+-YH+MN*4%*D]JZ=N)@QU<K,I0?S2='7;V['L,>[-:>J:I4P;UQ3>&1:
M``````````````````````6)Z#H.6JS"/&HNY'ZJ?;T9&R````J8GZ^&./R_
M-T>G08<^<ISC&%'%YRKEZ(R'S.$<6TDW1>FPR'JX+ZH]J)6M3&]\K3IN+H`.
M(\Q:#]-/C7RW*OJ>WMK7V;#1@```````````````````"@`-OY>=+\?XO<SO
M#F?-<>[!]+^PY(````!.AT/EY)3?%G)8>FPGSJY-)KB3M\6"VKUYFGMWTL_E
MVF5HE%\;BZ4CA7YJ[*&'Q4E67>ZR6KU'CXO-8&&`````````````````````
M`9_*]"]7<2IW:UEU??DCT0```-T-='F:K+B7"HO/?THY._K96)O@?#C7M,*[
MJI7&VWGGTEIW"C[I`NVK[M.J>*-_IO,\K:I<7&]^7V&]L\VA*BDTI2R76;(&
MIY_I_'LO?'O+U9^QLX(````````````````!J@``%0`#:\@=+\?XO^+.^.?\
MT_VX_G^QG&`````&;I;KM)].U9FUYTUP0I2DEF:.4*$6^%"J6P````````
M`````````````#)T%E7[D8/)L[?E/+WHHM/.3V9&S```,/77."+;^7:<;K.9
M.:<%C%Y/<MQJW-LH`$Z`$[=UVVI+-.O8=7HO,JG_`'53ICE\?>=)&2DJK%"4
M5)4>*9YA>AP2:W-H@````````````$`@```````#8<F_O0ZST,Y[S3'_`*XO
M]_[&<:`````3@]AG:VU%]ZV^XJ5WU,-/'`I.%,R%2@``````````````````
M```!UOEOEZ2\5XR?R]'[?=UG3```%&:+FT'*+C%UEMBMQIUR/B7S4?4:6[:=
MI\,E1HA0``JG0H5C*AVOEW4Q=M0KWE6J-Z><<T7#=G3\3]YA@```````````
M```````&1;FK<6_K>'4MKZ_L,<`&?R=TO0_,>B&A\T*MI?G7ND<4`````#,M
M2AP-8^)7U4^)CQGP.ID3<9PJZ^)7U4,,`````````````````````!*IT/(>
M4J^_$G\L?EZ7\%[3L(04,B0``!CZRZK$'-_2O;L]IP]KF<H-NO>EFS*LZ_O\
M,7W'OZOC[!K;D;\EQ/B26:SZC'ERZ5YTC0P-1IW8?"\^@L@``V/)[KC<23^;
M!GH2//.<NMZ?YC7@`````````````````````S>5?W8?F1Z,:3S*JV?XD<.`
M`````B;1./=C6JZMI9`````````````````````!N.5<FEK*3>%NO\V^GNJ=
MVD````:'S-><+:BOJ>/J.-<.$JI84]I=A&BP,C2ZQZ=Y]9FZ6Y&\IK%W)JB6
M];?88MWEZI6+IUFLE'A*``V'*8KQ%)N,5%UQ>?5TGH49<2J>:ZV]X\Y37U2;
M,<`````````````````````&7RYTNP_/'WGI!I?,G]E_F1PP`````"="_9:G
MW6Z+>6VN%T(`````````````````````&^Y5R%ZFDY_V\^E_#IV^\[.$%!)+
M!(D````<EYGNN4HQV)>_]GO.=XJD92J53$EPO`K&XX8K![RY"XYO%EZW:\;#
M*OU%G4:5V&TVGN:R?48X!D:6TYNJQHTZ;SOM=J%I;4IK9'#K>"]KQ/.0````
M`````````````````"_I%6<?S1]YZ8:OGT..S+HH_:C@``````"L7PXDIS\3
M%YD````````````````````"4+;GD=+RGD$;J\2YWHOY4L.W[CJ+%A6(J,<(
MK(N`````XKG>I\2Y+HP[/O-/)IK`MJ.\4H46("E0G"ZU@BYJ*0[J?%TF.`;G
MRY%^+78DS8>:-77AM+\S]R^WV'+``````````````````````%[2OAG%K\2]
MYZ::[G;I9G3=]J//0``````#+>H5R"MM*J>$MO4^@LW;$K6#1:``````````
M````````!?L:26H:44\72M'1=;.NY9R!:9\4WQ.GJ-Y;MJVJ+(D`````>><P
MN^).4J8<3]YA\2*-U*SHUTD5&A1XE``"5N#FTEFW0[;3:5:%.Y)<$8KT^[><
M?K-2]5-S>U^S9[#'``````````````````````)V5Q22Z4>H&#S>/%9G^5GG
M0```````,O2W$^[/Y/=U%AVW-OA6':6P````````````````"Y"Q*>*3?4CH
M['EWAE'B[T:=]98]'4=%I-#'1KAAEF90`````#=,6>=WU^H;:=57NKH,>45%
M$%2*PS+OB)+%)O>64ZE"(`"Q-MRC22=R,Z=VN>S;]OM-]YB<KEND4_F[U-U'
MGT'%@``````````````````````E"7"TUL/43!YO_9G^4\Z```````!DW;\9
M148QI)9RKF6K=^5OY70OV8POX-\,MCV-[GNZS%E!QP90```````````````K
M"+FTEFSH-!Y=DY_]OR+-;SK-/IHZ=<,%2.XO)4``````!K^<3X+,WT>]HX-1
M=M5RKD0E/84MQJ.$13E@BC=,"(`,C3Z=ZAJ,<9,[578\MM=[**HNE_>:OE7,
MYW9-3=8;6Z*GQ*<QY9:U"<[+7%NV/X/TZ3F9P<'1JCW,B```````````````
M```````CU-&)S*UXMJ<5GPL\W`````````*J17,HXT*`````````````$H1J
M;73<EN7:2X>Y+I5:;SHM)Y?MV,^^]C>SL-U0```````&@\SW&K<8[Y>Y'(25
M%4JEQ$'W<".1+I*2=2(!6*J=7R^U"S%7.*QZC4\XYK^O:25(1RWOK^PU<7
M0V>AY@M.^\JPW=)N.8<N_P`BE."2D\<=JIMZ3E;MEV6XR5)+80``````````
M```````````"/4T6M3\DOROW'F(``````````J5151J1H``````````*%5%L
MO6=.[V$54Z/2\D4*1FN*N?0;FUR>U:?$HJJ],LC/2H5````````.1\S:A7)1
M@OIQ?K_9[3GX*O42E<W%J<^-U(MU#`!*"KF;'0Z51G6XFH+.J93F>L\=T62V
MK::T%RVMIGVN92M2K5\+?>IMWFZYIHY:B"EA)_33,Y:]8E9=))I]);``````
M```````````````/3=*J0C^5>XN7(<::WJAY<```````````!4`!@``````4
M!=AIW-51<NQ2HJ4:S-AI^6SNT7T5QH=)%V9=U<-?W?N-K&-"H````````!YY
MK)O4W)-;6Z&)"+97CX<&0X`"K0-GHN6K4R24LU5X9>CP-GSK4JS!6J\4\*
MOX]>XY@`%RU=\-IYT-U'F3FDHO@IEN,GFE-9!.&,ET9]".9:H4`0````````
M```````````/2N7NMJ#_`'(^Y&2SRQ@```````````````"M0"JC49%"J523
MC1T)PMXDM3!)]W+I+^CM.+Q7S8)[#;7>62MTX/FVTR743T^F<9*4TL%GO?3Z
M9&;H4[3;N+J<<NS9[C:*W"M$DGF3GJ8V\&R<+\;BXDZIDXRXLBH```````,+
MF>K>DMN:SV>OTJ>?R?$ZD4W$K)(AQX4(DH1KG@'@$JLS^7Z3Q9I23X7D]E3;
MZV<.61<8?W9>Q;^C]AS#=2@*T*,'9<HMQUVGX'FJI]&-4_3I1B1U'^-EP27%
M*.WK*\ZY6I1\6/S?5T])R[5``!0`````````````JRB50```#TCEO]J'Y(^X
MRSRQX``````````````````5`*LJXDK=3*L6?%=&]G[.TS-+I90QE)*$E3,S
MH:9VE1.B>]T]>)E>-&:7>46M^TLZKG"L/AC'BCMW>KH,2Q>2C6+;;?R]&SUF
M4Y)M-83>+3RIZ?LJ4T-Z=V;=*)[<4O4=/"'"2```````!R_F'5QO4MJO%%X[
MOVG--TP(7)-O$A4%8JI<4:9E7;QZ#,TN@=WO)JB[3;3UWZ.UX;???ROUU.>U
M%]ZA\4G66\L```NV=3.Q\DG&N='0IXS;JW5LZGE7,[=R'A3P=*8_5T(UW/.6
M?IZ3@J6W@^O[S1@!%6ZE``````*````````````]%Y2ZV8?E1G'ELG5E````
M``````````````"M"@+]MIYD6TETE%-RSQ+US4<5*MM+(O6KZBDW1M?2PKGZ
MFL7A3%$]/&O=32IC5F?=MQG'BXJTPEO3W=/03Y??G=E1U=J"K2F=,D;VWK_%
MI1//%/[#8@`5`````(W+BMJKP2.$U5G@4ISS;PIECF:N4JD6Z@JE4O?II)5I
M@44JJE,=YN--RZ<DVX-U7=W=?P,VY&'+;:;^=_3^]\%E][.7O77>;D\V0```
M`)6YN#36:R.YT6JCK5PW4N)+%/)]1R?-=)^FN225(MUCU?<8````````*U*`
M``````````'HG)_[,/RF>>8ZF*C.267$_>6@`````````````````!4``5H$
M9=O3N4:I%;J\-4*6+BK27RO;NZ?NVFUT.EB^[+O+HP,VG@*EMM1>QYFST%Y.
MBV^F1L'.@C>4L$2DZ*IKM3S2.EQF]F6TYJ_YCN7*TI'WHP(<UNPJU.6/2;;D
MO.I1FK<^\IO![4]GJ?WG8````T?F+6_IX**6,_<J5]>7M.+E<<NH@*5+JMF5
MIK?'@9]W3N;HW1O=B7N7Z).XD^FO29^MYO\`HZQ5.*.4=E/V')ZK4O52<WG(
ML`5````-SRZZXN,I8QB\<<3HN<:%Z^"<'BL5TG"-4`````!4H``````$`!0`
M```'H7)9<5F'5]IL3S+5*DY?F?O+(````````````````````"*E[3ZAV75=
M1<G=\3#>7Y0A##YGO+EC5.,TT9]K47-(W*<:\>UY^E"]^LXN]%4<=NXW-S41
M24EBGEZRW&ZHNGU&!J.>/0=R2\1YUK3#I5&<A.;FZO,IPM8["@3IB>HVYJ:3
M63Q)```&-J]%'6+AFJHYS7<A<6W&GAQ6"V])IKNCE:S6>6\SH<MX*-9[F7M/
MRN-75_+FGM,J5B,/D:3_``_`O6N6QC+%M7/FZ.KXFLYES-QGW.Y*/=]1I+LG
M<;E+%LM@`````EQ5P.YY5JXW(Q@L9<*KT.FTT?F+EZL2\1/">SI^\T``````
M``8```````````/0>1NMF%-S][-D>:Z^/#<FE^.7O,8`````````````````
M```%434N$C3B+MKN]Y;"Y"YP][ZLS(@_&K-JC;V8(R]3J9R2C/!I8=726XSC
M"-)MUEC&F7K,>7,.%QP^3(O?Y>:7%7O/L-5=N.ZW)YO$R=!I?U$LNY&CD]B7
M3UG7:B$;T:/&+7[#A6J!8GJ,(*"262)````&'9T2MMM][=7Z>@C<L*VLJO?M
M+:TNUDX6H6WEB]YH>=<P3BX16-<7NZNOW'-2;>86)69$`````(W?(=>M/<I+
M*6'KK@==K=%'6QX9>I[F><3CP-K<1``````8H````````````=[Y?=;$?XO^
M3-L>;<Q_NS_/+WLQ0```````````````````"K5`W4E"=`I;PY[A"7"T\S,_
M4NC62>*7P,?]0]N);E<<B&8J#I>2W(VX\"^>?S/9MP[/:S9RAPNF74<5=CP-
MK<V9?*]&]5<22P33EU??L/10````"$X<1AZFYX$7*3R.8UG.?U+X4J1>=<S5
MW<\2PZ)]!636PA2H`````!D:*\K$XSDJJ+K0[S1ZY:AX;55>GO.7\R6/#NU2
MHI+/>]OV5[=IHP52J4`````%0```5:H4```````.[\N2K970Y>\W!YUS:/#>
MG^9F"`````````````````````2C&I$K4JNZ2N2J6P$&#?\`E]I.5<Z5-CJ=
M>K,)2RD\(I[7]V?L.0C'B=%FSL>36%RV+=V48N36U;/1G00DI*JR94```!EM
MY8&'=U#BJG-:J<].VY=YRQKLZON,&YIG%\3=:XX;.CK+5R?%B\]YCMU("@``
M````-]Y=O1MSI+YI81?V>LZCF>C_`%EMP^K./6OCEZSSJ<7!M/!K,H$Z!@K0
MH```````!4```````'<>6G6S_$S=GG?./[T_S&``````````````````````
M`"J)W&6P`"]9U+LXQP92[>EJ75MRD9]AQT2XF^*Y2G#^&OIL,&U!ZB2A7YFE
MVGI=NVK:45DE1$@```#"G<4JJ-4]YAPTU7BZ,P]96QQ1=76/J-+"+7S52V]1
MT.BA:YG!K@48K#IZZG/ZWE\M))Q>*_%L?IN,&ZHQ^6OK+```````+VGONPU*
M/S+(]"T#<X1E+YFDV<?Y@TGZ>ZW],^\O_KUUQZFC3B@`J`````````$```&`
M``=QY:?_`$_Q,W9Y_P`]CPWYTZ/;%&L`````````````````````%````B4X
M[@H-Y%_3:-WY*.6_H6\R]5!\M=(;?KVOHZ#5EW32X)Q>Z2]YZ<````1D8\I)

re caffine tests (old one) lve heard that drugs like LSD +cocaine and
caffine were administered to spiders to see their effects on web
making.And interestingly enough the coke and LSD spiders carried on with
their perfect web making ,but the caffine spider flipped out and made a
erratic web!! Spiders can't hack coffee, (it was probably instant coffee
full of chemicals!)



--

"Meeba" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> re caffine tests (old one) lve heard that drugs like LSD +cocaine and
> caffine were administered to spiders to see their effects on web
> making.And interestingly enough the coke and LSD spiders carried on with
> their perfect web making ,but the caffine spider flipped out and made a
> erratic web!! Spiders can't hack coffee, (it was probably instant coffee
> full of chemicals!)
>

Hmmm...
Are you implying that we might be better off dropping tabs of Acid rather
than sipping coffee before that Sunday morning ride? A short trip around the
park?

Marty

Meeba wrote:
> re caffine tests (old one) lve heard that drugs like LSD +cocaine and
> caffine were administered to spiders to see their effects on web
> making.And interestingly enough the coke and LSD spiders carried on with
> their perfect web making ,but the caffine spider flipped out and made a
> erratic web!! Spiders can't hack coffee, (it was probably instant coffee
> full of chemicals!)
>

Photos of webs here:
<http://www.cannabis.net/weblife.html>

>Originally posted by Marty Wallace
>>"Meeba" <[email protected]> wrote re caffine tests (old
>>one) lve heard that drugs like LSD +cocaine and caffine were
>>administered to spiders to see their effects on web making.And
>>interestingly enough the coke and LSD spiders carried on with their
>>perfect web making ,but the caffine spider flipped out and made a
>>erratic web!! Spiders can't hack coffee, (it was probably instant
>>coffee full of chemicals!)
>
>
>Hmmm... Are you implying that we might be better off dropping tabs of
>Acid rather than sipping coffee before that Sunday morning ride? A
>short trip around the park?

I'm guessing that I'm not going to be able to buy these tabs of 'Long
Slow Distance' at, say, Cecil Walker or Freedom Machine? ;-)

Would make the commute a little more interesting I'm sure...

hippy



--