LA : More than the TDF ?

limerickman

I see some of the cycling websites are carrying reports that Lance Armstrong was out training on the Motorilo,
as the Giro was progressing toward the Motorilo.
His choice of location to get some mountain training in, is very interesting in several respects.

This year is the first year that I have actually seen the Motorillo for
myself - and I respectfully suggest that
the mountain stages in the Giro are tougher than anything the TDF has got to offer.
So for to get some mountain training, LA could not have selected a better location.
However, his selection of the Italian Alps for training, prompts the
question - why doesn't LA have a crack at the Giro ?

I've heard all the arguments about his wanting to make sure of his preparation for the TDF - and his lack of interest
in filling out his palmares.
But I contrast this to TDF 2003.
When the peloton were blasting uphill at Alp D'Huez last year - not 10 kilometres away, was one Marco Pantani quietly cycling along.
Allegedly, he could not resist the lure of TDF and his old stomping ground.
What must have gone through Pantani's mind, knowing that several kilometres away, the peloton were going full tilt ?
The same with LA, we know he is competitive - the lure to test himself against Cunego etc must have been practically
overwhelming.

It takes a very very special cyclist to be able to win both the Giro and the TDF.
(to win two grand tours in one year is - in my humble opinion - the
prerequisite to being considers truly great)
Only those who have achieved this feat can be considered right up there.
For his own sake, I really wish that LA would perhaps consider a tilt at both the TDF and one other grand tour.
He certainly had the ability to win both sets of races between 1999-2002.
I think that the window of opportunity to win both is now fast disappearing.

Five, Six or seven T'sDF is a great achievement : no doubt.
But history only judges those who have a full palmares as being truly great.
As time passes, Merckx record simply becomes greater and greater as does Hinault, Indurain, Anquetil etc.
As a cycling fan, I wish he would make such an attempt.

Trekker2017

Question: With all the different threads about who is or isn't the greatest cyclist, is there any criteria for measuring the best or is it merely fan-based "my good-ole-boy" is better than yours? In horse racing in America we have the Tripple Crown. Is there a similar combination of races that does the same for cyclists or is it a media/sponsor driven winner take all of the most covered event? Has any cyclist every won the Giro, the TDF and the Vuelta in one season? I've noticed a kind of Formula One point system that crowns the European Champion. Yet, the TDF winner gets more accolades. It's almost as if nothing else counts except the TDF. Is the TDF the "Super Bowl" of cycling? If it is then the winner of that race deserves the title of best rider. It depends on your criteria.

limerickman

The TDF is the premier title in our sport.
Closely followed by the Giro and the Vuelta (Tour of Spain).
But the UCI have a points system whereby riders are allocated points for the position in certain races inclusing the three big tours
mentioned above.
Theoretically, the rider with the most points at the end of the season is deemed the best rider in the world.
But we also have a one day road race called the World Road Race
Championship and the winner of this is deemed world champion
for one year.

So there are a variety of criteria by which one can be called the best.
This is the difficulty now.

Cyclists (all cyclists) tend to specialise and concentrate on certain races during the year to the exclusion of everything else.
In the 1980's and early 1990's the top men rode most major races.

Thus when LA or JU are compared to the riders of old, they will
be at an immediate disadvantage because they do not participate in the same number of races as their predecessors.

This is the basis for my question : LA certainly had the ability to win the TDF as well as a Giro or Vuelta.
For his own reasons, he prefers to concentrate on the TDF almost to the exclusion of every other major title in cycling.
I think this is a pity - both for him and our sport.
This man could add other titles to his palmares, so that in years to come people would be able to point and say that as well as
winning X-amount of T'sDF, he also won a Giro and/or Vuelta.

Using my analogy in my original question, how he trained in Italy
as the Giro was going by, must have been overwhelming for him.
I can't believe that some part of him wasn't wishing to be there
racing against Cunego, Simoni etc.

No rider has won all three major tours in one season.
Eddie Merckx, Bernard Hinault, Fausto Coppi, Miguel Indurain,
Stephen Roche are the only riders to have two grand tours
in the same season.

Fixey

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Lim, not true.
Premier title is the world sprint champs, followed by the other two parts of the triple crown, the Kilo and the Kieran! I thopught everyone knew that?
Jees Lim.

limerickman

This is what I was afraid of :
Different people have their own perspective on who is the world champion and what constitutes a world title: is it Kerin, TDF, world road race champion, UCI points winner ?
Go off and start another thread Fixey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are getting away from my original point :

I see some of the cycling websites are carrying reports that Lance Armstrong was out training on the Motorilo,
as the Giro was progressing toward the Motorilo.
His choice of location to get some mountain training in, is very interesting in several respects.

This year is the first year that I have actually seen the Motorillo for
myself - and I respectfully suggest that
the mountain stages in the Giro are tougher than anything the TDF has got to offer.
So for to get some mountain training, LA could not have selected a better location.
However, his selection of the Italian Alps for training, prompts the
question - why doesn't LA have a crack at the Giro ?

I've heard all the arguments about his wanting to make sure of his preparation for the TDF - and his lack of interest
in filling out his palmares.
But I contrast this to TDF 2003.
When the peloton were blasting uphill at Alp D'Huez last year - not 10 kilometres away, was one Marco Pantani quietly cycling along.
Allegedly, he could not resist the lure of TDF and his old stomping ground.
What must have gone through Pantani's mind, knowing that several kilometres away, the peloton were going full tilt ?
The same with LA, we know he is competitive - the lure to test himself against Cunego etc must have been practically
overwhelming.

It takes a very very special cyclist to be able to win both the Giro and the TDF.
(to win two grand tours in one year is - in my humble opinion - the
prerequisite to being considers truly great)
Only those who have achieved this feat can be considered right up there.
For his own sake, I really wish that LA would perhaps consider a tilt at both the TDF and one other grand tour.
He certainly had the ability to win both sets of races between 1999-2002.
I think that the window of opportunity to win both is now fast disappearing.

Five, Six or seven T'sDF is a great achievement : no doubt.
But history only judges those who have a full palmares as being truly great.
As time passes, Merckx record simply becomes greater and greater as does Hinault, Indurain, Anquetil etc.
As a cycling fan, I wish he would make such an attempt.

patch70

The Mortirolo:
12.6 km long, 1300m altitude gained, Peak gradient ~19%.
LA said it was the toughest climb he's done and he was using a 39x27 combo on the really steep bits.

limerickman

Well spotted - I mist-typed by accident.

Yes, that detail was what prompted my initial observation about
LA and the Giro.

I well remember Big Mig's comment about how, when climbing the
Mortirolo, he had to inhale the fumes of the TV camera motorbikes, in boiling temperatures in the 1993 Giro, if I recall
correctly.

Interesting that LA has only now - so late in to his career -
experienced the Dolomites in all their difficulty.

timdodge

limerickman makes a very interesting point... its been said that LA trains harder than he races. if so, he may have used the mortirolo to guage his fitness against the giro leaders. comparing his time against theirs would be a good measure of his training...