Aluminum seatpost, steel frame, non-destructive removal

Rick Onanian

Vitus 980 steel frame. One-piece fluted aluminum seatpost
appears to be cast (visible cast-aluminum look at clamp
area) and then milled (post-area appears milled, even on the
outside diameter, not just the flutes).

Tried penetrating oil before reading http://www.sheldonbrown.com/stuck-
seatposts.html Luckily, I did not try heating.

Tried ammonia. How much am I supposed to get in there, how
do I get it in, and how long should I wait? I spilled some
on the tire; will it damage the tire? I think it's just
running down the flutes and not getting at the actual metal
interface. I've probably washed all the grease right out of
my bottom bracket by now.

Drilled a hole in a non-critical spot at top of clamp area
so I could shoot some cold from an inverted canned-air
duster, per CO2 suggestion in Sheldon's web page. After
shooting it in, I was able to rotate seatpost a little bit
by grabbing seat. With difficulty, I can use a 3 foot long
pipe wrench to turn it all the way around.

I've tried a Bigger Hammer. I considered a hydraulic jack,
but that would probably destroy the top tube long before
extracting the seatpost.

If I could secure the bike down, and have somebody pulling
up while I turned the pipe wrench...maybe.

Any other suggestions? Should I give it a couple turns every
day with the pipe wrench until it wears thinner?
--
Rick Onanian

Werehatrack

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 18:25:33 -0400, Rick Onanian <spamsink@cox.net>
may have said:

>Any other suggestions? Should I give it a couple turns
>every day with the pipe wrench until it wears thinner?

If the seat tube is open to the BB shell (which it almost
always is), one of my favorite tactics won't work. That
tactic is to hacksaw the top of the seat post off, thread
the inside of it, cobble together fittings that will hook a
chassis grease gun to it, fill the tube full of motor oil,
hook up the grease gun and start pumping grease in under
pressure. I've only used this dodge once, but it worked
like a champ.

Unfortunately, the the post was *really* stuck, it might
split the seat tube. You can develop a *lot* of pressure
with a grease gun.

If you wanted to tape the bottom end of the seat tube
closed, pour some epoxy through a smaller tube into the
bottom of the seat tube to plug it, and try that trick, it
*might* work...but you'd risk having epoxy in places inside
the tube where you really don't want it.

Alternately, a long cable, some rope, a tree, and a small
pickup truck have been shown effective in removing a stuck
seatpost...

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

StøRker Moe

On 02 jun 2004, Rick Onanian wrote:

> Vitus 980 steel frame. One-piece fluted aluminum seatpost
> appears to be cast (visible cast-aluminum look at clamp
> area) and then milled (post-area appears milled, even on
> the outside diameter, not just the flutes).
>
> Tried penetrating oil before reading http://www.sheldonbrown.com/stuck-
> seatposts.html Luckily, I did not try heating.
>
> Tried ammonia. How much am I supposed to get in there, how
> do I get it in, and how long should I wait? I spilled some
> on the tire; will it damage the tire? I think it's just
> running down the flutes and not getting at the actual
> metal interface. I've probably washed all the grease right
> out of my bottom bracket by now.
>
> Drilled a hole in a non-critical spot at top of clamp area
> so I could shoot some cold from an inverted canned-air
> duster, per CO2 suggestion in Sheldon's web page. After
> shooting it in, I was able to rotate seatpost a little bit
> by grabbing seat. With difficulty, I can use a 3 foot long
> pipe wrench to turn it all the way around.
>
> I've tried a Bigger Hammer. I considered a hydraulic jack,
> but that would probably destroy the top tube long before
> extracting the seatpost.
>
> If I could secure the bike down, and have somebody pulling
> up while I turned the pipe wrench...maybe.
>
> Any other suggestions? Should I give it a couple turns
> every day with the pipe wrench until it wears thinner?
> --
> Rick Onanian

Had the same problem recently. There was no way that
seatpost would move, ever, no matter what tricks I used.

BUT with a aluminum seatpost in a steel frame, you can
resort to chemistry. Caustic soda AKA NaOH (commonly used
in a commercial blend with Al powder for clogged pipes in
my huse) dissolved Al readily, producing Al-Na-hydroxide
and hydrogen. Steel, however, is resistant to alkali. I
stripped the frame, plugged the bottle cage bosses and the
bottom of the seat tube after removing the BB and poured a
fairly strong solution down the seatpost. Changed it once
in awhile. Took some time and quite a bit of care, but it
worked. Don't forget to clean and dry the frame
thoroughly, though.

Just for the record: I don't advise you to do it, I'm just
telling what worked for me. NaOH is not something you'd want
in your eyes, or on your cat, or on the neighbors' children,
or on your brand new Al bike in the garage. If you try, use
safety goggles. NaOH liberates heat when dissolved, so
dissolving it in hot water is not a good idea. During the
reaction with Al, the hydrogen bubbles escaping will be
flammable, so don't do it inside. Also, the bubbles will
carry with them small droplets of caustic, so a slight spray
of caustic will spread in the immediate vicinity (20-30 cm)
of the seat post. Don't inhale the caustic aerosol.

Used NaOH can be disposed through the kitchen drain, with
lots of water, since it is also used for clogged pipes. Not
if you have plastic piping, though.

--
Størker Moe

Email Storker(DOT)Moe(AT)chemeng(DOT)ntnu(DOT)no WWW
http://www.chemeng.ntnu.no/~stmoe/

Werehatrack

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 06:51:59 +0000 (UTC), "Størker Moe"
<storkerDOTmoe@chemengDOTntnuDOTno.invalid> may have said:

>... During the reaction with Al, the hydrogen bubbles
>escaping will be flammable, so don't do it inside. Also,
>the bubbles will carry with them small droplets of caustic,
>so a slight spray of caustic will spread in the immediate
>vicinity (20-30 cm) of the seat post. Don't inhale the
>caustic aerosol.

Throw a dropcloth over the rest of the frame, or the caustic
spray can eat tiny holes in it. A strong alakali solution
makes a good paint stripper.

>Used NaOH can be disposed through the kitchen drain, with
>lots of water, since it is also used for clogged pipes. Not
>if you have plastic piping, though.

As long as it's not overly hot when it goes down the drain,
and is flushed with a reasonable amount of water, there is
no hazard to PVC drain pipes from the solution. (To the best
of my knowledge, PVC is the material used in the majority of
instances; if something else is permitted in your area, this
may not be valid.)

see http://www.plastomatic.com/geon-chemical-resistance.pdf

The primary reason that cans of Drano (and related products)
carry a warning against use where plastic pipes are present
is that the heat released may be sufficient to distort them.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via
e-mail. Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature. Words
processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Matt O'Toole

Rick Onanian wrote:

> Vitus 980 steel frame. One-piece fluted aluminum seatpost
> appears to be cast (visible cast-aluminum look at clamp
> area) and then milled (post-area appears milled, even on
> the outside diameter, not just the flutes).
>
> Tried penetrating oil before reading http://www.sheldonbrown.com/stuck-
> seatposts.html Luckily, I did not try heating.
>
> Tried ammonia. How much am I supposed to get in there, how
> do I get it in, and how long should I wait? I spilled some
> on the tire; will it damage the tire? I think it's just
> running down the flutes and not getting at the actual
> metal interface. I've probably washed all the grease right
> out of my bottom bracket by now.

Geez, take the bottom bracket out.

> Drilled a hole in a non-critical spot at top of clamp area
> so I could shoot some cold from an inverted canned-air
> duster, per CO2 suggestion in Sheldon's web page. After
> shooting it in, I was able to rotate seatpost a little bit
> by grabbing seat.

This is the best method, and it seems to be working for you
-- so try more of the same. You might try dry ice.

> With difficulty, I can use a 3 foot long pipe wrench to
> turn it all the way around.

Be careful how much leverage you use, especially as more of
the seatpost comes out. You might wind up twisting it like
a pretzel.

> If I could secure the bike down, and have somebody pulling
> up while I turned the pipe wrench...maybe.

I'd put the frame upside down with the seatpost in a bench
vise, dump some CO2 in there, then try to turn the frame
while pulling up, standing on the workbench. I've done this
successfully with a couple of old beach cruiser frames. I
put small pieces of dry ice down the seat tube from the
bottom bracket end.

> Any other suggestions? Should I give it a couple turns
> every day with the pipe wrench until it wears thinner?

Sure.

Matt O.

Rick Onanian

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 16:19:10 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <matt@deltanet.com>
wrote:
>> not getting at the actual metal interface. I've
>> probably washed all the grease right out of my bottom
>> bracket by now.
>
>Geez, take the bottom bracket out.

I know, I know...I'm really tired of taking the BB out of
this bike. I did it once to repack it with new grease, then
again to change the crank; and I've barely ridden it since
I started.

>the same. You might try dry ice.

Where does one buy dry ice, anyway?

>I'd put the frame upside down with the seatpost in a bench
>vise, dump some CO2

I gotta get me a good bench vise, well-mounted in an area
that I can clamp a bike in it. All I've got now is a loose,
beat-up, small vise deep in a corner, surrounded by other
immovable stuff -- fine for holding something small that I'm
going to dremel or drill, but not good for much else.
--
Rick Onanian

Matt O'Toole

Rick Onanian wrote:

> Where does one buy dry ice, anyway?

Try www.dryiceinfo.com

Matt O.

Andrew Martin

Rick Onanian <spamsink@cox.net> wrote in message news:<e20qb0dg4tcm2je2vkv69301q8k7avl254@4ax.com>...
> Vitus 980 steel frame. One-piece fluted aluminum seatpost
> appears to be cast (visible cast-aluminum look at clamp
> area) and then milled (post-area appears milled, even on
> the outside diameter, not just the flutes).
>
> Tried penetrating oil before reading http://www.sheldonbrown.com/stuck-
> seatposts.html Luckily, I did not try heating.
>
> Tried ammonia. How much am I supposed to get in there, how
> do I get it in, and how long should I wait? I spilled some
> on the tire; will it damage the tire? I think it's just
> running down the flutes and not getting at the actual
> metal interface. I've probably washed all the grease right
> out of my bottom bracket by now.
>
> Drilled a hole in a non-critical spot at top of clamp area
> so I could shoot some cold from an inverted canned-air
> duster, per CO2 suggestion in Sheldon's web page. After
> shooting it in, I was able to rotate seatpost a little bit
> by grabbing seat. With difficulty, I can use a 3 foot long
> pipe wrench to turn it all the way around.
>
> I've tried a Bigger Hammer. I considered a hydraulic jack,
> but that would probably destroy the top tube long before
> extracting the seatpost.
>
> If I could secure the bike down, and have somebody pulling
> up while I turned the pipe wrench...maybe.
>
> Any other suggestions? Should I give it a couple turns
> every day with the pipe wrench until it wears thinner?

(fun story leading to a solution follows) For my first trip
to le Tour – one of the guys I was traveling with was
ashamed to tell us that he had gotten his post stuck in his
frame and didn't show us until we were on the ground in
Europe. Prior to leaving, his LBS in Chicago tried all sorts
of tricks to extract it including drilling a whole through
it, passing a rod through the hole, and trying to spin it
out with some serious leverage. It didn't budge. He thought
he was doomed to ride without a saddle for the duration of
the 3 week trip.

As a last ditch effort prior to our first stage, we stopped
at a BMX shop in a small town in the shadow of Mt. Ventoux.
As soon as we walked in the door, the crafty French mechanic
at the shop was on the job. He had a tool that looked like a
cooking knife sharpening steel
- but with a groove in it where a hacksaw blade mounted
lengthwise (couldn't find the tool online as I don't know
what to call it).

With a little cutting oil and a careful hand, he sawed
through the entire length of the post in about 10 minutes.
After that was done, a pair of channel locks spun the post
out with little effort. My friend spend a couple hours at
his LBS with all sorts of oils, hammers, and drills back in
the states. The French mechanic saved our vacation, and he
wouldn't take a tip. He charged us $7 for labor and $22 for
a new post.

Now – I have no idea where to find such a tool, but
hopefully a little digging around at a good local hardware
shop will lead you in the right direction.

Good luck, -a

Rick Fetters

Rick, Is the seatpost a tube or solid? If a tube you might
try liquid nitrogen instead of dry ice. Take a thermos
bottle(a reasonable dewar), preferably metal walled, to a
welding gas supplier and get it filled. I liter is about a
buck. DON'T put the cap on tightly I also recommend
posting to two other usenet groups, rec.crafts.metalworking
and sci.materials; they may prove very helpful. rick

carlfogel

On 2 Jun 2004 18:39:02 -0700, andrew_f_martin@hotmail.com
(Andrew Martin) wrote:

>Rick Onanian <spamsink@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:<e20qb0dg4tcm2je2vkv69301q8k7avl254@4ax.com>...
>> Vitus 980 steel frame. One-piece fluted aluminum seatpost
>> appears to be cast (visible cast-aluminum look at clamp
>> area) and then milled (post-area appears milled, even on
>> the outside diameter, not just the flutes).
>>
>> Tried penetrating oil before reading http://www.sheldonbrown.com/stuck-
>> seatposts.html Luckily, I did not try heating.
>>
>> Tried ammonia. How much am I supposed to get in there,
>> how do I get it in, and how long should I wait? I spilled
>> some on the tire; will it damage the tire? I think it's
>> just running down the flutes and not getting at the
>> actual metal interface. I've probably washed all the
>> grease right out of my bottom bracket by now.
>>
>> Drilled a hole in a non-critical spot at top of clamp
>> area so I could shoot some cold from an inverted canned-
>> air duster, per CO2 suggestion in Sheldon's web page.
>> After shooting it in, I was able to rotate seatpost a
>> little bit by grabbing seat. With difficulty, I can use a
>> 3 foot long pipe wrench to turn it all the way around.
>>
>> I've tried a Bigger Hammer. I considered a hydraulic
>> jack, but that would probably destroy the top tube long
>> before extracting the seatpost.
>>
>> If I could secure the bike down, and have somebody
>> pulling up while I turned the pipe wrench...maybe.
>>
>> Any other suggestions? Should I give it a couple turns
>> every day with the pipe wrench until it wears thinner?
>
>(fun story leading to a solution follows) For my first trip
>to le Tour – one of the guys I was traveling with was
>ashamed to tell us that he had gotten his post stuck in his
>frame and didn't show us until we were on the ground in
>Europe. Prior to leaving, his LBS in Chicago tried all
>sorts of tricks to extract it including drilling a whole
>through it, passing a rod through the hole, and trying to
>spin it out with some serious leverage. It didn't budge. He
>thought he was doomed to ride without a saddle for the
>duration of the 3 week trip.
>
>As a last ditch effort prior to our first stage, we stopped
>at a BMX shop in a small town in the shadow of Mt. Ventoux.
>As soon as we walked in the door, the crafty French
>mechanic at the shop was on the job. He had a tool that
>looked like a cooking knife sharpening steel
>- but with a groove in it where a hacksaw blade mounted
> lengthwise (couldn't find the tool online as I don't know
> what to call it).
>
>With a little cutting oil and a careful hand, he sawed
>through the entire length of the post in about 10 minutes.
>After that was done, a pair of channel locks spun the post
>out with little effort. My friend spend a couple hours at
>his LBS with all sorts of oils, hammers, and drills back in
>the states. The French mechanic saved our vacation, and he
>wouldn't take a tip. He charged us $7 for labor and $22 for
>a new post.
>
>Now – I have no idea where to find such a tool, but
>hopefully a little digging around at a good local hardware
>shop will lead you in the right direction.
>
>Good luck, -a

Dear Andrew,

Curse you! I've never needed such a tool, but now I
desperately want one.

Carl Fogel

Zeeexsixare

> one of my favorite tactics won't work. That tactic is to
> hacksaw the top of the seat post off, thread the inside
> of it, cobble together fittings that will hook a chassis
> grease gun to it, fill the tube full of motor oil, hook
> up the grease gun and start pumping grease in under
> pressure. I've only used this dodge once, but it worked
> like a champ.

Did oil spew everywhere???

> Alternately, a long cable, some rope, a tree, and a small
> pickup truck have been shown effective in removing a stuck
> seatpost...

I would do the Dewbie way any day...
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Sergio Servadio

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:

> >walked in the door, the crafty French mechanic at the
> >shop was on the job. He had a tool that looked like a
> >cooking knife sharpening steel
> >- but with a groove in it where a hacksaw blade mounted
> > lengthwise Now =96 I have no idea where to find such a
> > tool, but hopefully a little digging around at a good
> > local hardware shop will lead you in the right
> > direction.
> Curse you! I've never needed such a tool, but now I
> desperately want one. Carl Fogel

Sign up, and I ship!

A couple of years back, the method was described on this
newsgroup. at the very time I had spotted a nice, but
otherwise useless, Colnago frame.=20 The tool, a hacksaw, is
a very cheap one, costing just a little more than just the
blade. The job itself took me about half an hour.

Sergio Pisa

Keepfallingofmy

I've spent the last couple of weeks trying to remove a stuck
seat post. Succeeded eventually.

I documented the methods used
http://www.beerscooter.co.uk/galler...?loc=./seatpost
Lots of fun with dangerous chemicals and smoke.

Weisse Luft

Hey, I did that back in 1994! But the original poster wanted a non-destructive method.

Since the post HAS moved, just keep hitting it with ammonia and it will eventually become free. Ammonia isn't too terribly destructive to tires but it can be bad on the bearings. Better service the BB soon.

The other method would be dry ice. Buy a few pounds and a small, cheap stryo cooler. Also buy some denatured alcohol, about a quart. Suspend the bicycle upside down so the seat post is vertical with the clamp pointing down. Put on heavy gloves and goggles. Wrap a chunk of dry ice in a old towel and hit it with a mallet/hammer/ballbat and break it into small bits. Put these chunks in the cooler and cover with alcohol. Stand back, it will bubble and smoke for a spell. Do this outside as you are releasing lots of CO2. Once the bubbling stops, immerse the seatpost ONLY in the alcohol. In few seconds, the aluminum will get to -70 C and it should fall out.

Let the dry ice sublime, recover the alcohol and clean up. I would recommend a bottle brushing of the entire seat tube along with a BB overhaul. Hit the seat tube with Frame Saver and this will be less likely to happen.