What did I do wrong? re: nutrition?

Curt

I was on a 75 mile ride today and pushed it pretty hard. The
weather was great and I know I was hydrated. I have been on
a low carb diet pretty strict from Tuesday until Saturday
night, which was the night before the ride. I ate sushi that
night and a salad. The next morning I ate a banana and piece
of chicken sausage and a cookie when I got to the ride
start. I set out and pretty much pushed from the start. I
felt really pretty good on the ride. Stopped a few times and
ate a total of 1 1/2 bananas and 1/2 of a peanut butter and
jelly sandwich. After the ride I ate 1/2 of a sandwich and
another cookie and some more water. I was only drinking
water on this ride. I felt okay coming home but began to get
a bit dizzy. I stood up and felt really dizzy for a bit and
had to put my head lower for few. I ate some rice, pasta,
fish and some blueberry yogurt and laid down for an hour or
so and now feel much better.

Did I not eat enough? Should I add carb earlier? Why did I
get dizzy?

Thanks, Curt

Badger_south

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 23:01:41 GMT, "curt" <nospam@verizon.net> wrote:

>I was on a 75 mile ride today and pushed it pretty hard.
>The weather was great and I know I was hydrated. I have
>been on a low carb diet pretty strict from Tuesday until
>Saturday night, which was the night before the ride. I ate
>sushi that night and a salad. The next morning I ate a
>banana and piece of chicken sausage and a cookie when I got
>to the ride start. I set out and pretty much pushed from
>the start. I felt really pretty good on the ride. Stopped a
>few times and ate a total of 1 1/2 bananas and 1/2 of a
>peanut butter and jelly sandwich. After the ride I ate 1/2
>of a sandwich and another cookie and some more water. I was
>only drinking water on this ride. I felt okay coming home
>but began to get a bit dizzy. I stood up and felt really
>dizzy for a bit and had to put my head lower for few. I ate
>some rice, pasta, fish and some blueberry yogurt and laid
>down for an hour or so and now feel much better.
>
>Did I not eat enough? Should I add carb earlier? Why did I
>get dizzy?
>
>Thanks, Curt

There could be many reasons for feeling dizzy, but despite
my leanings towards LC, I think you did the right thing in
picking the foods you did post-ride. I often listen to my
'internal voice' on what foods to eat when I'm LC-ing, b/c,
IMO, my body's needs, due to the clean and frugal eating,
are easier to 'read'.

Make sure you're taking the suggested vits and supps on the
LC plan, including minerals (potassium and calcium
supplements).

You might want to experiment with targetted, or cyclical
ketogenic diet if you're doing long rides at higher
intensity.

Good job, btw, on the ride!

-Badger "World's most dangerous City Bike Path Rider"

Steve Knight

I get dizzy when I run out of energy or bonk. sounds like
you needed a bit more food.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes
at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For
prices and ordering instructions.

Garyg

"curt" <nospam@verizon.net> wrote in message
newsnNwc.8709$321.257@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> I was on a 75 mile ride today and pushed it pretty hard.
> The weather was great and I know I was hydrated. I have
> been on a low carb diet pretty strict from Tuesday until
> Saturday night, which was the night before the ride. I ate
> sushi that night and a salad. The next morning I ate a
banana
> and piece of chicken sausage and a cookie when I got to
> the ride start. I set out and pretty much pushed from the
> start. I felt really pretty good
on
> the ride. Stopped a few times and ate a total of 1 1/2
> bananas and 1/2 of
a
> peanut butter and jelly sandwich. After the ride I ate 1/2
> of a sandwich and another cookie and some more water. I
> was only drinking water on this ride. I felt okay coming
> home but began to get a bit dizzy. I stood up
and
> felt really dizzy for a bit and had to put my head
> lower for few. I ate some rice, pasta, fish and some
> blueberry yogurt and laid down for an hour or so and
> now feel much better.
>
> Did I not eat enough? Should I add carb earlier? Why did I
> get dizzy?
>
> Thanks, Curt
>

It sounds like a typical low-carb bonk. This is one reason
why many folks think that low-carb is inappropriate for the
athletically inclined.

On your ride, you probably burned around 2600 calories
(assuming 35 calories per mile). But, you only consumed
about 500 calories during the ride, and your breakfast was
probably only around 400 calories. And, you had been "low-
carbing" for days prior to the ride. Finally, you rode
"hard"...when you do that, your body needs carbs...but,
you've not been consuming sufficient carbs for days.

I've heard it said that on rides lasting longer than an
hour or two, you should try to consume around 250 calories
per hour. This won't replace all the calories you're
burning (unless you're going very, very slow), but will
help prevent the bonk.

Eating carbs and protein post-ride was a good idea...but,
your eating habits before and during the ride are a classic
case of, "Doh!"

GG

Badger_south

On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:35:53 -0700, "GaryG"
<garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:

>"curt" <nospam@verizon.net> wrote in message
>newsnNwc.8709$321.257@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
>> I was on a 75 mile ride today and pushed it pretty
>> hard. The weather was great and I know I was hydrated.
>> I have been on a low carb diet pretty strict from
>> Tuesday until Saturday night, which was the night
>> before the ride. I ate sushi that night and a salad.
>> The next morning I ate a
>banana
>> and piece of chicken sausage and a cookie when I got to
>> the ride start. I set out and pretty much pushed from the
>> start. I felt really pretty good
>on
>> the ride. Stopped a few times and ate a total of 1 1/2
>> bananas and 1/2 of
>a
>> peanut butter and jelly sandwich. After the ride I ate
>> 1/2 of a sandwich and another cookie and some more water.
>> I was only drinking water on this ride. I felt okay
>> coming home but began to get a bit dizzy. I stood up
>and
>> felt really dizzy for a bit and had to put my head lower
>> for few. I ate some rice, pasta, fish and some blueberry
>> yogurt and laid down for an hour or so and now feel much
>> better.
>>
>> Did I not eat enough? Should I add carb earlier? Why did
>> I get dizzy?
>>
>> Thanks, Curt
>>
>
>It sounds like a typical low-carb bonk. This is one reason
>why many folks think that low-carb is inappropriate for the
>athletically inclined.
>
>On your ride, you probably burned around 2600 calories
>(assuming 35 calories per mile). But, you only consumed
>about 500 calories during the ride, and your breakfast was
>probably only around 400 calories. And, you had been "low-
>carbing" for days prior to the ride. Finally, you rode
>"hard"...when you do that, your body needs carbs...but,
>you've not been consuming sufficient carbs for days.
>
>I've heard it said that on rides lasting longer than an
>hour or two, you should try to consume around 250 calories
>per hour. This won't replace all the calories you're
>burning (unless you're going very, very slow), but will
>help prevent the bonk.
>
>Eating carbs and protein post-ride was a good idea...but,
>your eating habits before and during the ride are a classic
>case of, "Doh!"
>
>GG
>

Pseudo-scientific. More data was needed. I rode 2.4 hours on
Saturday on a a breakfast of one piece of bacon. Had two
hamburgers and some lettuce the day before.

No bonk. Rode hard. Got back and drank a diet soda and had
some coffee with splenda, then took a nap.

Lost 2 lbs, and kept 'em off through this pm.

-Badger "World's most dangerous City Bike Path Rider"

Curt

"Badger_South" <Badger@South.net> wrote in message
news:ial7c09lp533pgai63bqi1a3qdq2l36p7q@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:35:53 -0700, "GaryG"
> <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:
>
> >"curt" <nospam@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >newsnNwc.8709$321.257@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> >> I was on a 75 mile ride today and pushed it pretty
> >> hard. The weather
was
> >> great and I know I was hydrated. I have been on a low
> >> carb diet pretty strict from Tuesday until Saturday
> >> night, which was the night before
the
> >> ride. I ate sushi that night and a salad. The next
> >> morning I ate a
> >banana
> >> and piece of chicken sausage and a cookie when I got to
> >> the ride start.
I
> >> set out and pretty much pushed from the start. I felt
> >> really pretty
good
> >on
> >> the ride. Stopped a few times and ate a total of 1 1/2
> >> bananas and 1/2
of
> >a
> >> peanut butter and jelly sandwich. After the ride I ate
> >> 1/2 of a
sandwich
> >> and another cookie and some more water. I was only
> >> drinking water on
this
> >> ride. I felt okay coming home but began to get a bit
> >> dizzy. I stood
up
> >and
> >> felt really dizzy for a bit and had to put my head
> >> lower for few. I
ate
> >> some rice, pasta, fish and some blueberry yogurt and
> >> laid down for an
hour
> >> or so and now feel much better.
> >>
> >> Did I not eat enough? Should I add carb earlier? Why
> >> did I get dizzy?
> >>
> >> Thanks, Curt
> >>
> >
> >It sounds like a typical low-carb bonk. This is one
> >reason why many
folks
> >think that low-carb is inappropriate for the athletically
> >inclined.
> >
> >On your ride, you probably burned around 2600 calories
> >(assuming 35
calories
> >per mile). But, you only consumed about 500 calories
> >during the ride,
and
> >your breakfast was probably only around 400 calories.
> >And, you had been "low-carbing" for days prior to the
> >ride. Finally, you rode
"hard"...when
> >you do that, your body needs carbs...but, you've not been
> >consuming sufficient carbs for days.
> >
> >I've heard it said that on rides lasting longer than an
> >hour or two, you should try to consume around 250
> >calories per hour. This won't replace
all
> >the calories you're burning (unless you're going very,
> >very slow), but
will
> >help prevent the bonk.
> >
> >Eating carbs and protein post-ride was a good idea...but,
> >your eating
habits
> >before and during the ride are a classic case of, "Doh!"
> >
> >GG
> >
>
> Pseudo-scientific. More data was needed. I rode 2.4 hours
> on Saturday on a a breakfast of one piece of bacon. Had
> two hamburgers and some lettuce the day before.
>
> No bonk. Rode hard. Got back and drank a diet soda and had
> some coffee
with
> splenda, then took a nap.
>
> Lost 2 lbs, and kept 'em off through this pm.
>
> -Badger "World's most dangerous City Bike Path Rider"

Thanks for the replies. I to ride up to 40 miles or so and
can eat whatever. I rode 50 on two eggs and some bacon and a
banana, but it was at a slower pace. For some reason this 75
really took it out of me.

I think I will have to eat more food on this type of ride. I
had enough in me to finish strong, but after I soon went
down hill.

Thanks, Curt

Garyg

"curt" <nospam@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:VaRwc.12451$9g6.7948@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
>
> "Badger_South" <Badger@South.net> wrote in message
> news:ial7c09lp533pgai63bqi1a3qdq2l36p7q@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:35:53 -0700, "GaryG"
> > <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:
> >
> > >"curt" <nospam@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > >newsnNwc.8709$321.257@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> > >> I was on a 75 mile ride today and pushed it pretty
> > >> hard. The weather
> was
> > >> great and I know I was hydrated. I have been on a low
> > >> carb diet
pretty
> > >> strict from Tuesday until Saturday night, which was
> > >> the night before
> the
> > >> ride. I ate sushi that night and a salad. The next
> > >> morning I ate a
> > >banana
> > >> and piece of chicken sausage and a cookie when I got
> > >> to the ride
start.
> I
> > >> set out and pretty much pushed from the start. I felt
> > >> really pretty
> good
> > >on
> > >> the ride. Stopped a few times and ate a total of 1
> > >> 1/2 bananas and
1/2
> of
> > >a
> > >> peanut butter and jelly sandwich. After the ride I
> > >> ate 1/2 of a
> sandwich
> > >> and another cookie and some more water. I was only
> > >> drinking water on
> this
> > >> ride. I felt okay coming home but began to get a bit
> > >> dizzy. I stood
> up
> > >and
> > >> felt really dizzy for a bit and had to put my head
> > >> lower for few. I
> ate
> > >> some rice, pasta, fish and some blueberry yogurt and
> > >> laid down for an
> hour
> > >> or so and now feel much better.
> > >>
> > >> Did I not eat enough? Should I add carb earlier? Why
> > >> did I get
dizzy?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks, Curt
> > >>
> > >
> > >It sounds like a typical low-carb bonk. This is one
> > >reason why many
> folks
> > >think that low-carb is inappropriate for the
> > >athletically inclined.
> > >
> > >On your ride, you probably burned around 2600 calories
> > >(assuming 35
> calories
> > >per mile). But, you only consumed about 500 calories
> > >during the ride,
> and
> > >your breakfast was probably only around 400 calories.
> > >And, you had
been
> > >"low-carbing" for days prior to the ride. Finally,
> > >you rode
> "hard"...when
> > >you do that, your body needs carbs...but, you've not
> > >been consuming sufficient carbs for days.
> > >
> > >I've heard it said that on rides lasting longer than an
> > >hour or two,
you
> > >should try to consume around 250 calories per hour.
> > >This won't replace
> all
> > >the calories you're burning (unless you're going very,
> > >very slow), but
> will
> > >help prevent the bonk.
> > >
> > >Eating carbs and protein post-ride was a good
> > >idea...but, your eating
> habits
> > >before and during the ride are a classic case of,
> > >"Doh!"
> > >
> > >GG
> > >
> >
> > Pseudo-scientific. More data was needed. I rode 2.4
> > hours on Saturday on
a
> > a breakfast of one piece of bacon. Had two hamburgers
> > and some lettuce
the
> > day before.
> >
> > No bonk. Rode hard. Got back and drank a diet soda and
> > had some coffee
> with
> > splenda, then took a nap.
> >
> > Lost 2 lbs, and kept 'em off through this pm.
> >
> > -Badger "World's most dangerous City Bike Path Rider"
>
> Thanks for the replies. I to ride up to 40 miles or so and
> can eat whatever. I rode 50 on two eggs and some bacon and
> a banana, but it was
at
> a slower pace. For some reason this 75 really took it
> out of me.
>
> I think I will have to eat more food on this type of ride.
> I had enough
in
> me to finish strong, but after I soon went down hill.
>
> Thanks, Curt
>

I think how hard you ride has a lot to do with it. If you're
riding at a pretty easy pace, your body is able to keep up
with your energy needs by converting stored fats. But, at
higher intensities and longer efforts, your body burns
mostly stored glycogens (carbs), and has a hard time keeping
up with demand unless you take some more carbs on board
during the ride.

GG

Garyg

"Badger_South" <Badger@South.net> wrote in message
news:ial7c09lp533pgai63bqi1a3qdq2l36p7q@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:35:53 -0700, "GaryG"
> <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:
>
> >"curt" <nospam@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >newsnNwc.8709$321.257@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> >> I was on a 75 mile ride today and pushed it pretty
> >> hard. The weather
was
> >> great and I know I was hydrated. I have been on a low
> >> carb diet pretty strict from Tuesday until Saturday
> >> night, which was the night before
the
> >> ride. I ate sushi that night and a salad. The next
> >> morning I ate a
> >banana
> >> and piece of chicken sausage and a cookie when I got to
> >> the ride start.
I
> >> set out and pretty much pushed from the start. I felt
> >> really pretty
good
> >on
> >> the ride. Stopped a few times and ate a total of 1 1/2
> >> bananas and 1/2
of
> >a
> >> peanut butter and jelly sandwich. After the ride I ate
> >> 1/2 of a
sandwich
> >> and another cookie and some more water. I was only
> >> drinking water on
this
> >> ride. I felt okay coming home but began to get a bit
> >> dizzy. I stood
up
> >and
> >> felt really dizzy for a bit and had to put my head
> >> lower for few. I
ate
> >> some rice, pasta, fish and some blueberry yogurt and
> >> laid down for an
hour
> >> or so and now feel much better.
> >>
> >> Did I not eat enough? Should I add carb earlier? Why
> >> did I get dizzy?
> >>
> >> Thanks, Curt
> >>
> >
> >It sounds like a typical low-carb bonk. This is one
> >reason why many
folks
> >think that low-carb is inappropriate for the athletically
> >inclined.
> >
> >On your ride, you probably burned around 2600 calories
> >(assuming 35
calories
> >per mile). But, you only consumed about 500 calories
> >during the ride,
and
> >your breakfast was probably only around 400 calories.
> >And, you had been "low-carbing" for days prior to the
> >ride. Finally, you rode
"hard"...when
> >you do that, your body needs carbs...but, you've not been
> >consuming sufficient carbs for days.
> >
> >I've heard it said that on rides lasting longer than an
> >hour or two, you should try to consume around 250
> >calories per hour. This won't replace
all
> >the calories you're burning (unless you're going very,
> >very slow), but
will
> >help prevent the bonk.
> >
> >Eating carbs and protein post-ride was a good idea...but,
> >your eating
habits
> >before and during the ride are a classic case of, "Doh!"
> >
> >GG
> >
>
> Pseudo-scientific. More data was needed. I rode 2.4 hours
> on Saturday on a a breakfast of one piece of bacon. Had
> two hamburgers and some lettuce the day before.
>
> No bonk. Rode hard. Got back and drank a diet soda and had
> some coffee
with
> splenda, then took a nap.
>
> Lost 2 lbs, and kept 'em off through this pm.

How far did you ride, and how much climbing did you do?

While your pre-ride bacon experiment-of-one might work for
you, I doubt it would work for most folks. I could not
imagine doing a multi-hour ride on only a piece of bacon
(roughly 100 calories). I've seen, and experienced, the bonk
too many times, and that "breakfast" is a recipe for bonking
for most folks that I know.

Most of the research I've read on nutrition for endurance
athletes emphasizes the importance of consuming carbs before
and during the ride, with carbs and protein post-ride.
Perhaps it's different for you, but I doubt we'll be seeing
any TdF pros queueing up for bacon before this year's Alpe
d'Huez stage.

>
> -Badger "World's most dangerous City Bike Path Rider"

Badger_south

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 00:11:34 -0700, "GaryG"
<garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:

>How far did you ride, and how much climbing did you do?

Only 35 miles - I'm still a biking wimp. ;-<

>While your pre-ride bacon experiment-of-one might work for
>you, I doubt it would work for most folks. I could not
>imagine doing a multi-hour ride on only a piece of bacon
>(roughly 100 calories). I've seen, and experienced, the
>bonk too many times, and that "breakfast" is a recipe for
>bonking for most folks that I know.

Anything over my longest ride and I'll let a piece of hard
candy dissolve, or munch a few M&Ms. But I'm still pushing
it, both pace and distance.

>Most of the research I've read on nutrition for endurance
>athletes emphasizes the importance of consuming carbs
>before and during the ride, with carbs and protein post-
>ride. Perhaps it's different for you, but I doubt we'll be
>seeing any TdF pros queueing up for bacon before this
>year's Alpe d'Huez stage.

Haha. Good one. But as some have said, more and more
endurance athletes are trying the LC diet and doing OK,
along with supplementation during the 'window'. For the
really long events, like adventure racing, they're pretty
much all gone to liquid fuel during the event. Note the
posting from one biker who mentions that without the
excessive carbs he's no longer getting that sleepy feeling
mid-day, etc.

It's a fun experiment, and who knows how far it can be
taken? But to be fair, I always take some glucose snacks
along just in case.

-B

Roger Zoul

GaryG wrote:
:: "curt" <nospam@verizon.net> wrote in message
:: news:VaRwc.12451$9g6.7948@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
:::
::: "Badger_South" <Badger@South.net> wrote in message
::: news:ial7c09lp533pgai63bqi1a3qdq2l36p7q@4ax.com...
:::: On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:35:53 -0700, "GaryG"
:::: <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:
::::
::::: "curt" <nospam@verizon.net> wrote in message
::::: newsnNwc.8709$321.257@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
:::::: I was on a 75 mile ride today and pushed it pretty
:::::: hard. The weather was great and I know I was
:::::: hydrated. I have been on a low carb diet pretty
:::::: strict from Tuesday until Saturday night, which was
:::::: the night before the ride. I ate sushi that night and
:::::: a salad. The next morning I ate a banana and piece of
:::::: chicken sausage and a cookie when I got to the ride
:::::: start. I set out and pretty much pushed from the
:::::: start. I felt really pretty good on the ride. Stopped
:::::: a few times and ate a total of 1 1/2 bananas and
:: 1/2
::: of
::::: a
:::::: peanut butter and jelly sandwich. After the ride I
:::::: ate 1/2 of a sandwich and another cookie and some
:::::: more water. I was only drinking water on this ride. I
:::::: felt okay coming home but began to get a bit dizzy. I
:::::: stood up and felt really dizzy for a bit and had to
:::::: put my head lower for few. I ate some rice, pasta,
:::::: fish and some blueberry yogurt and laid down for an
:::::: hour or so and now feel much better.
::::::
:::::: Did I not eat enough? Should I add carb earlier? Why
:::::: did I get dizzy?
::::::
:::::: Thanks, Curt
::::::
:::::
::::: It sounds like a typical low-carb bonk. This is one
::::: reason why many folks think that low-carb is
::::: inappropriate for the athletically inclined.
:::::
::::: On your ride, you probably burned around 2600 calories
::::: (assuming 35 calories per mile). But, you only
::::: consumed about 500 calories during the ride, and your
::::: breakfast was probably only around 400 calories. And,
::::: you had been "low-carbing" for days prior to the ride.
::::: Finally, you rode "hard"...when you do that, your body
::::: needs carbs...but, you've not been consuming
::::: sufficient carbs for days.
:::::
::::: I've heard it said that on rides lasting longer than
::::: an hour or two, you should try to consume around 250
::::: calories per hour. This won't replace all the calories
::::: you're burning (unless you're going very, very slow),
::::: but will help prevent the bonk.
:::::
::::: Eating carbs and protein post-ride was a good
::::: idea...but, your eating habits before and during the
::::: ride are a classic case of, "Doh!"
:::::
::::: GG
:::::
::::
:::: Pseudo-scientific. More data was needed. I rode 2.4
:::: hours on Saturday on a a breakfast of one piece of
:::: bacon. Had two hamburgers and some lettuce the day
:::: before.
::::
:::: No bonk. Rode hard. Got back and drank a diet soda and
:::: had some coffee with splenda, then took a nap.
::::
:::: Lost 2 lbs, and kept 'em off through this pm.
::::
:::: -Badger "World's most dangerous City Bike Path Rider"
:::
::: Thanks for the replies. I to ride up to 40 miles or so
::: and can eat whatever. I rode 50 on two eggs and some
::: bacon and a banana, but it was at a slower pace. For
::: some reason this 75 really took it out of me.
:::
::: I think I will have to eat more food on this type of
::: ride. I had enough in me to finish strong, but after I
::: soon went down hill.
:::
::: Thanks, Curt
:::
::
:: I think how hard you ride has a lot to do with it. If
:: you're riding at a pretty easy pace, your body is able to
:: keep up with your energy needs by converting stored fats.
:: But, at higher intensities and longer efforts, your body
:: burns mostly stored glycogens (carbs), and has a hard
:: time keeping up with demand unless you take some more
:: carbs on board during the ride.

I think that definitely is a factor. I note that on my rides
I going upto and above 90% of my 220-age heart rate max
several times on a 35-mile ride through the hills of upstate
SC. Afterwards I have major BG drops.

Roger Zoul

GaryG wrote:
:: "Badger_South" <Badger@South.net> wrote in message
:: news:ial7c09lp533pgai63bqi1a3qdq2l36p7q@4ax.com...
::: On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:35:53 -0700, "GaryG"
::: <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:
:::
:::: "curt" <nospam@verizon.net> wrote in message
:::: newsnNwc.8709$321.257@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
::::: I was on a 75 mile ride today and pushed it pretty
::::: hard. The weather was great and I know I was hydrated.
::::: I have been on a low carb diet pretty strict from
::::: Tuesday until Saturday night, which was the night
::::: before the ride. I ate sushi that night and a salad.
::::: The next morning I ate a banana and piece of chicken
::::: sausage and a cookie when I got to the ride start. I
::::: set out and pretty much pushed from the start. I felt
::::: really pretty good on the ride. Stopped a few times
::::: and ate a total of 1 1/2 bananas and 1/2 of a peanut
::::: butter and jelly sandwich. After the ride I ate 1/2 of
::::: a sandwich and another cookie and some more water. I
::::: was only drinking water on this ride. I felt okay
::::: coming home but began to get a bit dizzy. I stood up
::::: and felt really dizzy for a bit and had to put my head
::::: lower for few. I ate some rice, pasta, fish and some
::::: blueberry yogurt and laid down for an hour or so and
::::: now feel much better.
:::::
::::: Did I not eat enough? Should I add carb earlier? Why
::::: did I get dizzy?
:::::
::::: Thanks, Curt
:::::
::::
:::: It sounds like a typical low-carb bonk. This is one
:::: reason why many folks think that low-carb is
:::: inappropriate for the athletically inclined.
::::
:::: On your ride, you probably burned around 2600 calories
:::: (assuming 35 calories per mile). But, you only consumed
:::: about 500 calories during the ride, and your breakfast
:::: was probably only around 400 calories. And, you had
:::: been "low-carbing" for days prior to the ride. Finally,
:::: you rode "hard"...when you do that, your body needs
:::: carbs...but, you've not been consuming sufficient carbs
:::: for days.
::::
:::: I've heard it said that on rides lasting longer than an
:::: hour or two, you should try to consume around 250
:::: calories per hour. This won't replace all the calories
:::: you're burning (unless you're going very, very slow),
:::: but will help prevent the bonk.
::::
:::: Eating carbs and protein post-ride was a good
:::: idea...but, your eating habits before and during the
:::: ride are a classic case of, "Doh!"
::::
:::: GG
::::
:::
::: Pseudo-scientific. More data was needed. I rode 2.4
::: hours on Saturday on a a breakfast of one piece of
::: bacon. Had two hamburgers and some lettuce the day
::: before.
:::
::: No bonk. Rode hard. Got back and drank a diet soda and
::: had some coffee with splenda, then took a nap.
:::
::: Lost 2 lbs, and kept 'em off through this pm.
::
:: How far did you ride, and how much climbing did you do?
::
:: While your pre-ride bacon experiment-of-one might work
:: for you, I doubt it would work for most folks. I could
:: not imagine doing a multi-hour ride on only a piece of
:: bacon (roughly 100 calories). I've seen, and experienced,
:: the bonk too many times, and that "breakfast" is a recipe
:: for bonking for most folks that I know.

I think the factors are very rider specific. I'm heavy, and
I know that I'l lhave major issues because on my routes I'm
doing a lot of uphill climbing and I try to push my way up
as fast as I can. This results in my HR going up quite high,
usually over and over. I think Curt just found his limit,
even though he only weighs 180 lbs.

::
:: Most of the research I've read on nutrition for endurance
:: athletes emphasizes the importance of consuming carbs
:: before and during the ride, with carbs and protein post-
:: ride. Perhaps it's different for you, but I doubt we'll
:: be seeing any TdF pros queueing up for bacon before this
:: year's Alpe d'Huez stage.

I agree. But I would not encourage any LCer to take extra
carbs until they learn where and what kind of riding causes
them to hit the wall.

Roger Zoul

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 00:11:34 -0700, "GaryG"
:: <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:
::
::: How far did you ride, and how much climbing did you do?
::
:: Only 35 miles - I'm still a biking wimp. ;-<
::
::: While your pre-ride bacon experiment-of-one might work
::: for you, I doubt it would work for most folks. I could
::: not imagine doing a multi-hour ride on only a piece of
::: bacon (roughly 100 calories). I've seen, and
::: experienced, the bonk too many times, and that
::: "breakfast" is a recipe for bonking for most folks that
::: I know.
::
:: Anything over my longest ride and I'll let a piece of
:: hard candy dissolve, or munch a few M&Ms. But I'm still
:: pushing it, both pace and distance.
::
::: Most of the research I've read on nutrition for
::: endurance athletes emphasizes the importance of
::: consuming carbs before and during the ride, with carbs
::: and protein post-ride. Perhaps it's different for you,
::: but I doubt we'll be seeing any TdF pros queueing up for
::: bacon before this year's Alpe d'Huez stage.
::
:: Haha. Good one. But as some have said, more and more
:: endurance athletes are trying the LC diet and doing OK,
:: along with supplementation during the 'window'. For the
:: really long events, like adventure racing, they're pretty
:: much all gone to liquid fuel during the event. Note the
:: posting from one biker who mentions that without the
:: excessive carbs he's no longer getting that sleepy
:: feeling mid-day, etc.
::
:: It's a fun experiment, and who knows how far it can be
:: taken? But to be fair, I always take some glucose snacks
:: along just in case.

Me too.

Garyg

"Badger_South" <Badger@South.net> wrote in message
news:uio8c0pjdphurdka5h0fv47ri2nemmgc76@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 00:11:34 -0700, "GaryG"
> <garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com> wrote:
>
> >How far did you ride, and how much climbing did you do?
>
> Only 35 miles - I'm still a biking wimp. ;-<
>
> >While your pre-ride bacon experiment-of-one might work
> >for you, I doubt
it
> >would work for most folks. I could not imagine doing a
> >multi-hour ride
on
> >only a piece of bacon (roughly 100 calories). I've
> >seen, and
experienced,
> >the bonk too many times, and that "breakfast" is a recipe
> >for bonking for most folks that I know.
>
> Anything over my longest ride and I'll let a piece of hard
> candy dissolve, or munch a few M&Ms. But I'm still pushing
> it, both pace and distance.
>
> >Most of the research I've read on nutrition for endurance
> >athletes emphasizes the importance of consuming carbs
> >before and during the ride, with carbs and protein post-
> >ride. Perhaps it's different for you, but I doubt we'll
> >be seeing any TdF pros queueing up for bacon before this
year's
> >Alpe d'Huez stage.
>
> Haha. Good one. But as some have said, more and more
> endurance athletes
are
> trying the LC diet and doing OK, along with
> supplementation during the 'window'. For the really long
> events, like adventure racing, they're
pretty
> much all gone to liquid fuel during the event. Note the
> posting from one biker who mentions that without the
> excessive carbs he's no longer getting that sleepy feeling
> mid-day, etc.

Ditto on the sleepy mid-day feelings. Years ago I tried a
very low-fat diet, and found that I would get very sleepy
around 3 pm. I don't do low-carb, but nowadays I always
try to get some good protein with lunch. It seems to help
avoid the blood sugar crash in the afternoon and I don't
get sleepy. It's still a "slow" time for me compared to
the morning, however, so perhaps it's just part of my
natural pattern.

GG

>
> It's a fun experiment, and who knows how far it can be
> taken? But to be fair, I always take some glucose snacks
> along just in case.
>
> -B

Roger Zoul

Curt --

I suggest that when you do your 150 mile ride, that you ride
at your usual training intensity as much as possible and not
try to "push it" do any new intensity levels. Basically,
ride like you train and don't try anything know. Do a
"carbup" the day before (low fat / high carb but NOT
excessive calories) and consume small amounts of carbs (30
to 40 g) even hour or so during the ride. Then do the carb /
protein thing afterwards, at about a 4 to 1 ratio (carb :
protein). As long as you don't overeat in terms of calories,
you can low weight while maintaining the LC program. Or you
can leave the weight loss for the other days and just
maintain on that weekend.

Whatever you decide to do, I'll be looking for a full
report! Good luck!

curt wrote:
:: I was on a 75 mile ride today and pushed it pretty hard.
:: The weather was great and I know I was hydrated. I have
:: been on a low carb diet pretty strict from Tuesday until
:: Saturday night, which was the night before the ride. I
:: ate sushi that night and a salad. The next morning I ate
:: a banana and piece of chicken sausage and a cookie when I
:: got to the ride start. I set out and pretty much pushed
:: from the start. I felt really pretty good on the ride.
:: Stopped a few times and ate a total of 1 1/2 bananas and
:: 1/2 of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. After the ride
:: I ate 1/2 of a sandwich and another cookie and some more
:: water. I was only drinking water on this ride. I felt
:: okay coming home but began to get a bit dizzy. I stood up
:: and felt really dizzy for a bit and had to put my head
:: lower for few. I ate some rice, pasta, fish and some
:: blueberry yogurt and laid down for an hour or so and now
:: feel much better.
::
:: Did I not eat enough? Should I add carb earlier? Why did
:: I get dizzy?
::
:: Thanks, Curt