My wheels are making me nuts! ;)

Daniel Crispin

I need some advice here.

I purchased by bike a month ago. I had to get my spokes re-
tightened (forget that word, my first language is French and
I have no idea for the correct english term) about a week
ago. Today as I was riding the bike started making the same
racket noise that it did before I had my wheels fixed.

One of the shop I went to told me that because I was heavy,
my wheels will need to be adjusted often. Also told me that
my spokes were low quality and that made it worth. He wanted
to sell me a new wheel for the back because that is where
most of my weight is when I ride. Said the rest of my wheel
is good quality but the spokes are not. I wanted to have the
spokes replaced but he said it would cost more than purchase
a new wheel entirelly...

Does this make any sense? He offered to sell me a Deore
wheel with Anodized spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty
similar to what I have except for the spokes. 100 CAN$.

Rick Onanian

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:47:09 -0400, "Daniel Crispin"
<calendyr@videotron.ca> wrote:
>I purchased by bike a month ago. I had to get my spokes re-
>tightened

You needed it trued (if it was out of true, as in, the rim
was wobbly but the hub was straight), or you needed the
spokes re-tensioned (if they were even with eachother but
not tight enough), or both.

>One of the shop I went to told me that because I was heavy,
>my wheels will need to be adjusted often. Also told me that
>my spokes were low quality and that made it worth. He
>wanted to sell me a new wheel for the back

Sounds like the quality issue is not the spokes, but rather,
the person (or machine) who built the wheel. For loads of
discussion on this issue, go to groups.google.com and search
the rec.bicycles.tech group. The spokes where probably never
properly tensioned, and the wheel was not "stress relieved",
which is an important step in good wheelbuilding but not so
commonly practiced.

It could also be the wrong wheel for you; if you're heavy,
you probably should have 32 spokes or more. Even so, I'd
suspect a bad build as a contributing factor.

>Does this make any sense? He offered to sell me a Deore
>wheel with Anodized spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty
>similar to what I have except for the spokes. 100 CAN$.

I wouldn't buy another wheel from the same shop. Try to find
a local shop with a _good_ wheelbuilder, or locate one
elsewhere who can build you a wheel and mail it to you.
There are a few good wheelbuilders on rec.bicycles.tech who
post daily.
--
Rick Onanian

Roger Zoul

Well, I weigh 240 lbs and my bike is in the shop...

I've broken a spoke on the rear wheel twice. After the
second one I rode 100 lbs before I found a loose spoke on
the rear wheel. So now the bike shop is rebuilding my rear
wheel (which they should have done after the first one since
this is a new bike bought last fall). They've had my bike
since Monday, and I was supposed to pick it up today. I call
them on the way home to see if it is ready, but I find they
don't have black spokes. I don't want silver spokes as I may
sell those wheels.

So, I'm going to have a custom set of wheels built (not by
the bike shop). I would do it myself but I'd lose too much
time from riding while trying to learn. I'll learn after I
get riding again. I just wish I had my bike -- it looks like
I won't get to ride this weekend, either.

I must be free of the LBS for the mechanical needs of my
bike.

Somehow, I don't think the problem is just the spokes, but
I'm a noob, so don't listen to me.

Daniel Crispin wrote:
:: I need some advice here.
::
:: I purchased by bike a month ago. I had to get my spokes
:: re-tightened (forget that word, my first language is
:: French and I have no idea for the correct english term)
:: about a week ago. Today as I was riding the bike started
:: making the same racket noise that it did before I had my
:: wheels fixed.
::
:: One of the shop I went to told me that because I was
:: heavy, my wheels will need to be adjusted often. Also
:: told me that my spokes were low quality and that made it
:: worth. He wanted to sell me a new wheel for the back
:: because that is where most of my weight is when I ride.
:: Said the rest of my wheel is good quality but the spokes
:: are not. I wanted to have the spokes replaced but he said
:: it would cost more than purchase a new wheel entirelly...
::
:: Does this make any sense? He offered to sell me a Deore
:: wheel with Anodized spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty
:: similar to what I have except for the spokes. 100 CAN$.

Rick Onanian

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:38 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>So now the bike shop is rebuilding my rear wheel (which
>they should have done after the first one since this is a
>new bike bought last fall). They've had my bike since
>Monday <snip>

They need the whole bike just to rebuild the wheel?

They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they rebuild
it? I mean, for all your trouble and everything...

>Somehow, I don't think the problem is just the spokes, but
>I'm a noob, so don't listen to me.

The OP's problem is not cheap spokes.
--
Rick Onanian

Roger Zoul

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:38 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
::: So now the bike shop is rebuilding my rear wheel (which
::: they should have done after the first one since this is
::: a new bike bought last fall). They've had my bike since
::: Monday <snip>
::
:: They need the whole bike just to rebuild the wheel?
::
:: They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they rebuild
:: it? I mean, for all your trouble and everything...

Hmm.....didn't think to ask that til now....thanks...

::
::: Somehow, I don't think the problem is just the spokes,
::: but I'm a noob, so don't listen to me.
::
:: The OP's problem is not cheap spokes.
:: --
:: Rick Onanian

Badger_south

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 20:06:17 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Rick Onanian wrote:
>:: On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:38 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
>:: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>::: So now the bike shop is rebuilding my rear wheel (which
>::: they should have done after the first one since this is
>::: a new bike bought last fall). They've had my bike since
>::: Monday <snip>
>::
>:: They need the whole bike just to rebuild the wheel?
>::
>:: They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they
>:: rebuild it? I mean, for all your trouble and
>:: everything...
>
>Hmm.....didn't think to ask that til now....thanks...

Doesn't that just drive ya nuts, though? You'd think they'd
suggest that, at least to a good customer.

Wish I had a LBS like Mike J's around here. Read his site
from cover-to-cover if you get a chance - lots of good tips
on stuff like this.

(Heck if I hadn't read this ng, I'd have paid about $85 more
for my Trek last month.)

Good luck and wishes for a fast repair and return of your
steed, man.

-B

Daniel Crispin

> > He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with Anodized spokes
> > and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I have
> > except for
the
> > spokes. 100 CAN$.
>
> You might want to buy stronger wheels, but I wouldn't buy
> them from the same guys that sold you the bike

What do you mean by stronger wheels? Deore is high-midrange
and dual walled (or what ever it is called in english) is
the best frame you can get. I have talking tech because all
my tech books are in french and I can't explain easilly...

> You can spend about $200 usd to get a decent set of
> handbuilt wheels or you can shop around--I recently saw a
> nice pair of Ritchey 36 spoke offset rims with DT spokes
> and Deore hubs at the local REI on sale for less than
> $100usd. Having two complete sets of wheels with different
> types of tires is very luxurious if you can afford it.

When you say hand build, do you mean putting the wheel
together or forging the rim? I really doubt a rim can be
forged by hand better than a machine can do it. If you
are talking about putting the wheel together, then yes I
agree it might be better done by hand. But I don't want
to spend 200$ on a wheel when I have one that is only a
month old and is supposed to be of good quality. If the
spokes are the problem it might be worth it to replace
them. 36$ plus labour will cost me maybe 60 CAN$. Not bad
compared to 200 US$.
>
> Another poster mentioned 32 spoke wheels--I'm going to
> recommend 36 spoke wheels if you have a choice. Unless
> you're racing, you won't feel the difference and not
> having to true them very often is nice.

Well that is what I have... I counted 35 but I must have
missed one

Bernie

Daniel Crispin wrote:

>>>He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with Anodized spokes
>>>and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I have
>>>except for
>>>
>the
>
>>>spokes. 100 CAN$.
>>>
>
>Well that is what I have... I counted 35 but I must have
>missed one
>
<lots of snips> You have a brand new wheel with 36 spokes.
You probably need a decent bike mechanic to re-tension your
wheel. It's just like a rebuild. Should cost no more than
$40 CAD. Saying that, you didn't say how much you weigh, or
if you are beating the rim on curbs, etc. I have gone thru
some wheel truing and tensioning problems in the past few
years. If the rim is not ruined, a decent shop can make
your wheel good as new. IMO, the hard thing is finding the
shop that will properly do the job. I tend to agree with
previous poster who advised not to buy a new wheel from the
shop that just sold you a new bike, then told you the
nearly new wheel was no good. Do tell more about your
experiences, and about the wheel, etc. For an example, my
bike mechanic took my "found in a dumpster" old mountain
bike rear wheel, which was dirty but not abused, re-
tensioned all the spokes (replaced none) and made it strong
and true. It works great, and I expect it to last a long
time. He charged me less than $40 too.

Best regards, Bernie

Roger Zoul

Daniel Crispin wrote:
:::: He offered to sell me a Deore wheel with Anodized
:::: spokes and dual walled frame. Pretty similar to what I
:::: have except for the spokes. 100 CAN$.
:::
::: You might want to buy stronger wheels, but I wouldn't
::: buy them from the same guys that sold you the bike
::
:: What do you mean by stronger wheels? Deore is high-
:: midrange and dual walled (or what ever it is called in
:: english) is the best frame you can get. I have talking
:: tech because all my tech books are in french and I can't
:: explain easilly...
::
::: You can spend about $200 usd to get a decent set of
::: handbuilt wheels or you can shop around--I recently saw
::: a nice pair of Ritchey 36 spoke offset rims with DT
::: spokes and Deore hubs at the local REI on sale for less
::: than $100usd. Having two complete sets of wheels with
::: different types of tires is very luxurious if you can
::: afford it.
::
:: When you say hand build, do you mean putting the wheel
:: together or forging the rim? I really doubt a rim can be
:: forged by hand better than a machine can do it. If you
:: are talking about putting the wheel together, then yes I
:: agree it might be better done by hand. But I don't want
:: to spend 200$ on a wheel when I have one that is only a
:: month old and is supposed to be of good quality. If the
:: spokes are the problem it might be worth it to replace
:: them. 36$ plus labour will cost me maybe 60 CAN$. Not bad
:: compared to 200 US$.

Get them to fix it under warranty. If they can't fix it,
then have them replace it. It could have been a poorly made
wheel from teh get-go.

:::
::: Another poster mentioned 32 spoke wheels--I'm going to
::: recommend 36 spoke wheels if you have a choice. Unless
::: you're racing, you won't feel the difference and not
::: having to true them very often is nice.
::
:: Well that is what I have... I counted 35 but I must have
:: missed one

Roger Zoul

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 20:06:17 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
::
::: Rick Onanian wrote:
::::: On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:38 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
::::: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
:::::: So now the bike shop is rebuilding my rear wheel
:::::: (which they should have done after the first one
:::::: since this is a new bike bought last fall). They've
:::::: had my bike since Monday <snip>
:::::
::::: They need the whole bike just to rebuild the wheel?
:::::
::::: They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they
::::: rebuild it? I mean, for all your trouble and
::::: everything...
:::
::: Hmm.....didn't think to ask that til now....thanks...
::
:: Doesn't that just drive ya nuts, though? You'd think
:: they'd suggest that, at least to a good customer.
::
:: Wish I had a LBS like Mike J's around here. Read his site
:: from cover-to-cover if you get a chance - lots of good
:: tips on stuff like this.

I'm not sure if I know that site...

::
:: (Heck if I hadn't read this ng, I'd have paid about $85
:: more for my Trek last month.)
::
:: Good luck and wishes for a fast repair and return of your
:: steed, man.

Thanks...now is when a good second bike would be handy...

::
:: -B

Badger_south

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 23:25:23 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>:: Wish I had a LBS like Mike J's around here. Read his
>:: site from cover-to-cover if you get a chance - lots of
>:: good tips on stuff like this.
>
>I'm not sure if I know that site...

Mike's site is:

http://www.chainreaction.com/

-B

Roger Zoul

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:11:38 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
::: So now the bike shop is rebuilding my rear wheel (which
::: they should have done after the first one since this is
::: a new bike bought last fall). They've had my bike since
::: Monday <snip>
::
:: They need the whole bike just to rebuild the wheel?
::
:: They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they rebuild
:: it? I mean, for all your trouble and everything...

I'm going to get my bike with a loaner rear wheel in a few
minutes. Thanks much for the idea.

Rick Onanian

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 21:33:33 -0400, "Daniel Crispin"
<calendyr@videotron.ca> wrote:
>But I don't want to spend 200$ on a wheel when I have one
>that is only a month old and is supposed to be of good
>quality. If the spokes are the problem it might be worth it
>to replace them. 36$ plus labour will cost me maybe 60
>CAN$. Not bad compared to 200 US$.

Consider having your existing wheel tensioned and trued by a
good wheelbuilder. You'll just be paying for the labor,
using your old parts, but you'll get an essentially new
wheel out of it.
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:58:37 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<rogerzoul2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Rick Onanian wrote:
>:: They couldn't loan you a wheel to ride while they
>:: rebuild it? I mean, for all your trouble and
>:: everything...
>
>I'm going to get my bike with a loaner rear wheel in a few
>minutes. Thanks much for the idea.

Sheesh, I said something, and it actually _helped_ somebody?
Wow. Hell must have frozen over... <BFG>

Er...you're quite welcome. Happy to help. Etc.
--
Rick Onanian