CO2 Inflators

Guy Goldich

I've used a Zefal HPX frame pump for the last 15 years or so without
problems. I usually carry 2 inner tubes and a patch kit.

However, at my local bike shop, my eye has been straying over to the CO2
inflators. Most of my rides are between 20 and 40 miles. I've heard that
since CO2 is a smaller molecule, tires lose air quicker.What has been
people's experience with them? Viable alternative? Weight & reliability?

Jim Flom

"Guy Goldich" wrote ...
> I've used a Zefal HPX frame pump for the last 15 years or so without
> problems. I usually carry 2 inner tubes and a patch kit.
>
> However, at my local bike shop, my eye has been straying over to the CO2
> inflators. Most of my rides are between 20 and 40 miles. I've heard that
> since CO2 is a smaller molecule, tires lose air quicker.What has been
> people's experience with them? Viable alternative? Weight & reliability?

Two tubes and a patch kit for a 40 mile ride? You certainly are prepared,
I'll grant you that. Whatever any supposed loss of air pressure, you really
just need something to hold you over till you get home anyway, right? My
"ULTRAFLATE" jacks up the tire pressure to around 100 pounds way more easily
than a hand pump would, and if you want you can pack an extra cartridge or
two in case you get that second flat, you certainly can. Just make sure you
match your carttridge refills to the gauge refill your applicator takes.

Jim Flom

Erik Lindeberg

"Guy Goldich" <ggodich@comcast.net> wrote in message
newsfCdnRUHuuYIqO7dRVn-jA@comcast.com...
> I've heard that
> since CO2 is a smaller molecule, tires lose air quicker.What has been
> people's experience with them? Viable alternative? Weight & reliability?
>
Small molecules e.g. helium, may diffuse faster than larger molecules
through some materials. The CO2 molecule is, however, larger than
the main constituents of air, oxygen and nitrogen, both with respect to
molecular weight and size. There are other properties,
though, that contribute to how fast the gas molecules
diffuses through the rubber, in particular how easy they
dissolve in rubber.

Occasionally I have been using CO2 cartridges to pump
up my tires and I have not notice that CO2 leaks out faster than air.

Erik

E. Willson

CO2 will indeed diffuse through rubber faster than air. Scientifically, I am
saying that its diffusion coefficient is significantly higher. I do not use
it, so I cannot tell you what to practically expect. I have heard people say
that they needed to pump up tires filled with CO2 after two days. YMMV.

HTH
Ernie

Guy Goldich wrote:

> I've used a Zefal HPX frame pump for the last 15 years or so without
> problems. I usually carry 2 inner tubes and a patch kit.
>
> However, at my local bike shop, my eye has been straying over to the CO2
> inflators. Most of my rides are between 20 and 40 miles. I've heard that
> since CO2 is a smaller molecule, tires lose air quicker.What has been
> people's experience with them? Viable alternative? Weight & reliability?

Christopher Meyer

I stopped using a pump a couple of years ago. My rides are between 20 and
55 miles and to be frank, I love 'em. I've never had a significant pressure
loss due to molecular size after fixing. My preference for road use is the
16g cartridges.

CM


"Guy Goldich" <ggodich@comcast.net> wrote in message
newsfCdnRUHuuYIqO7dRVn-jA@comcast.com...
> I've used a Zefal HPX frame pump for the last 15 years or so without
> problems. I usually carry 2 inner tubes and a patch kit.
>
> However, at my local bike shop, my eye has been straying over to the CO2
> inflators. Most of my rides are between 20 and 40 miles. I've heard that
> since CO2 is a smaller molecule, tires lose air quicker.What has been
> people's experience with them? Viable alternative? Weight & reliability?
>
>

Steve Knight

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:21:38 -0400, "E. Willson" <ewillson@patmedia.net> wrote:

>CO2 will indeed diffuse through rubber faster than air. Scientifically, I am
>saying that its diffusion coefficient is significantly higher. I do not use
>it, so I cannot tell you what to practically expect. I have heard people say
>that they needed to pump up tires filled with CO2 after two days. YMMV.

I did. and the tire once I let the CO2 out never went flat again for a couple
weeks then it just needed topped off.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

psycholist

"Guy Goldich" <ggodich@comcast.net> wrote in message
newsfCdnRUHuuYIqO7dRVn-jA@comcast.com...
> I've used a Zefal HPX frame pump for the last 15 years or so without
> problems. I usually carry 2 inner tubes and a patch kit.
>
> However, at my local bike shop, my eye has been straying over to the CO2
> inflators. Most of my rides are between 20 and 40 miles. I've heard that
> since CO2 is a smaller molecule, tires lose air quicker.What has been
> people's experience with them? Viable alternative? Weight & reliability?
>

They get you back on the road faster and they get you home where you
can/should dismount the flatted tire for further inspection, and where you
can reinflate it with good 'ol American air.

Bob C.

landon2@despamcomcast.net

What's wrong with carrying a small frame pump as a back-up to the CO2
inflator. Two carts (two flats) and if the worst case scenario occurs,
the pump is there. I know weight weenies will scream, but if you're
that concerned, belt and suspenders. Besides, I always understood that
if you carry the pump in your back pocket, it doesn't count as weight
on the bike (kinda like the diet that says if nobody saw you eat it,
calories don't count).

Chuck

On 07 Apr 2004 14:28:25 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
<damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Guy Goldich <ggodich@comcast.net> wrote:
>>I've used a Zefal HPX frame pump for the last 15 years or so without
>>problems. I usually carry 2 inner tubes and a patch kit.
>>However, at my local bike shop, my eye has been straying over to the CO2
>>inflators.
>
>You should consider the correct technique for using these; when they let
>you down, stand at the side of the road looking pathetic until someone
>with an HPX (like me) comes by, mocks you gently, and pumps up your tyre.
>
>CO2's all very well _except_ for the worst-case scenario, and then you're
>completely shafted. In contrast with a patch kit as well as spare tubes
>you're good for eight or so punctures in one day, and if by some hideous
>mischance that _does_ happen, you only have to scrounge another patch off
>a passer-by.
>
>If you can live with the idea that very occasionally you'll be begging
>cager friends to come and rescue you, fine; otherwise, stick with the
>pump.
>
>Don't be concerned, though, about the extra leakage of CO2. It won't make
>any difference on the day, and later you can always reinflate it with air
>at home.

GaryG

"Guy Goldich" <ggodich@comcast.net> wrote in message
newsfCdnRUHuuYIqO7dRVn-jA@comcast.com...
> I've used a Zefal HPX frame pump for the last 15 years or so without
> problems. I usually carry 2 inner tubes and a patch kit.
>
> However, at my local bike shop, my eye has been straying over to the CO2
> inflators. Most of my rides are between 20 and 40 miles. I've heard that
> since CO2 is a smaller molecule, tires lose air quicker.What has been
> people's experience with them? Viable alternative? Weight & reliability?
>

Perhaps it's a California thing, but none of my road biking friends carries
a frame pump. Some of my mountain biking friends carry both CO2 and a
mini-pump inside their Camelbacks...but, they typically ride far off the
beaten track, on trails with sharp rocks and thorns.

On my normal road rides (25-50 miles), I carry 2 or 3 cartridges in a small
seat bag, along with a spare tube (and, sometimes a patch kit). On longer
and/or remote rides, I add an extra tube or two. With this setup, I've not
been stranded once in the last 5 years (roughly 15,000 miles). Perhaps I've
been lucky, but for me a frame pump seems superfluous and a bit archaic, and
I'd rather not have anything extra hanging on the bike. Of course, YMMV.

--
~_-*
....G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

Paul Kopit

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:26:19 -0400, "John Rees" <junk@jrees.net> wrote:

>So CO2 has a higher mass than either Nitrogen (most of our air) and O2.
>How do these big molecules manage to sneak out of your tube faster than
>air?

CO2 is a solvent. Actually, a pretty good organic solvent. It's used
to extract flavors and fragrances.

Bill

I' ve used them for years. The smaller CO2 will fill a 23c road tire plenty
full to finish a ride. It will lose pressure overnight and will need to be
pumped the next day. They are a quick and convenient alternate to a pump
and you can carry several CO2s if necessary.
"Guy Goldich" <ggodich@comcast.net> wrote in message
newsfCdnRUHuuYIqO7dRVn-jA@comcast.com...
> I've used a Zefal HPX frame pump for the last 15 years or so without
> problems. I usually carry 2 inner tubes and a patch kit.
>
> However, at my local bike shop, my eye has been straying over to the CO2
> inflators. Most of my rides are between 20 and 40 miles. I've heard that
> since CO2 is a smaller molecule, tires lose air quicker.What has been
> people's experience with them? Viable alternative? Weight & reliability?
>
>

joe_faustNOSPAM@verizon.net

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:56:20 -0400, "Guy Goldich" <ggodich@comcast.net>
wrote:

>I've used a Zefal HPX frame pump for the last 15 years or so without
>problems. I usually carry 2 inner tubes and a patch kit.
>
>However, at my local bike shop, my eye has been straying over to the CO2
>inflators. Most of my rides are between 20 and 40 miles. I've heard that
>since CO2 is a smaller molecule, tires lose air quicker.What has been
>people's experience with them? Viable alternative? Weight & reliability?
>
A few months back I purchased the Innovations Slim Jim CO2 hybrid
inflator:

http://tinyurl.com/29oyd

Fortunately I have mounting pegs under my down tube and mounted the
Slim Jim just forward of the BB. Haven't had a chance to use it, but I
like the idea of having both a small pump and inflator mounted out of
the way.

Joe

Matt O'Toole

GaryG wrote:

> "Guy Goldich" <ggodich@comcast.net> wrote in message
> newsfCdnRUHuuYIqO7dRVn-jA@comcast.com...

>> I've used a Zefal HPX frame pump for the last 15 years or so without
>> problems. I usually carry 2 inner tubes and a patch kit.
>>
>> However, at my local bike shop, my eye has been straying over to the
>> CO2 inflators. Most of my rides are between 20 and 40 miles. I've
>> heard that since CO2 is a smaller molecule, tires lose air
>> quicker.What has been people's experience with them? Viable
>> alternative? Weight & reliability?

In my experience, flats come in multiples. There's usually more of what caused
the first one. So I'd never want to rely on an inflator.

> Perhaps it's a California thing, but none of my road biking friends
> carries a frame pump. Some of my mountain biking friends carry both
> CO2 and a mini-pump inside their Camelbacks...but, they typically
> ride far off the beaten track, on trails with sharp rocks and thorns.

It's a CA thing to carry a cell phone at all times too. :-) And to draw
attention to yourself with your "adventures."

I've always carried a Blackburn Mammoth, which will bring a MTB tire to full
pressure easily and quickly. It fits in a Cameback, and while it's big for
jersey pocket it'll still fit. It weighs less than an inflator and a couple of
large cartridges, and never runs out of air. However, it's no good beyond 60psi
or so, so it's no good for road tires.

> On my normal road rides (25-50 miles), I carry 2 or 3 cartridges in a
> small seat bag, along with a spare tube (and, sometimes a patch kit).
> On longer and/or remote rides, I add an extra tube or two. With this
> setup, I've not been stranded once in the last 5 years (roughly
> 15,000 miles). Perhaps I've been lucky, but for me a frame pump
> seems superfluous and a bit archaic, and I'd rather not have anything
> extra hanging on the bike. Of course, YMMV.

I've been carrying an inflator since I bought my new road bike in October. I
never got around to purchasing a frame pump. I won the inflator in a raffle, so
I've been carrying it ever since. No flats yet. I know I'll pay for this!
Anyway, a traditional frame pump probably won't fit on my bike, because it has
weird gussets, like a carbon frame. Otherwise I'd carry one. Most of my longer
and/or remote rides are with friends (who have pumps), so I don't worry about it
too much. But if I was doing these rides by myself, I'd definately be
pump-shopping.

The quickest way to piss off your friends and family is to be calling for rides
every time you have the slightest mechanical problem. It only reinforces the
idea that cyclists are reckless, irresponsible flakes. We don't need that.

Matt O.