Salvageable wheel/rim???

Zilla

I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily
I only got a minor foot sprain. But the rear wheel
(Bontrager Race Lite 700c) twisted on me. I slammed
the "boinged" part against the ground to untwist
it as much as I can, but this only fixed it so far and
it's still twisted enough that it won't rotate now since
the rear caliper brakes get in the way. I'd say the
rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course the spokes
are all lose now. Is this rim worth salvaging? It's
basically a new wheel on a new bike, which is 4
mos. old with only around 200 mi. on it. (I have not
ridden it much because of the weather.) Can I
still true the wheel?

I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence,
the wheel building post I had earlier.)

--
- Zilla
Cary, NC
(Remove XSPAM)

david

its toast, tension will be extremely uneven. rebuild with new rim - I have
the same problem. I crashed in a cat 5 race, frickin squireliness of riders.
Ruined my velomax orion comp front and rear rims ($200 for rebuild)
expensive for a college student. YIKES! (same out of true as your rim about
1/2 - 1 inch) bike shop tried for an hour, and said no way, they got the
front true but tension was way wack.

David

"Zilla" <zilla62XSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:hk2ec.15735$Lh2.8598@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily
> I only got a minor foot sprain. But the rear wheel
> (Bontrager Race Lite 700c) twisted on me. I slammed
> the "boinged" part against the ground to untwist
> it as much as I can, but this only fixed it so far and
> it's still twisted enough that it won't rotate now since
> the rear caliper brakes get in the way. I'd say the
> rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course the spokes
> are all lose now. Is this rim worth salvaging? It's
> basically a new wheel on a new bike, which is 4
> mos. old with only around 200 mi. on it. (I have not
> ridden it much because of the weather.) Can I
> still true the wheel?
>
> I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence,
> the wheel building post I had earlier.)
>
> --
> - Zilla
> Cary, NC
> (Remove XSPAM)
>
>
>

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Zilla who? writes:

> I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily I only got a minor
> foot sprain. But the rear wheel (Bontrager Race Lite 700c) twisted
> on me. I slammed the "boinged" part against the ground to untwist it
> as much as I can, but this only fixed it so far and it's still
> twisted enough that it won't rotate now since the rear caliper
> brakes get in the way.

Don't do that!!!

This is an old saw that won't go away as people dent and damage rims
of wheels that have a wow in them. It might look macho but it has no
mechanical value. A warped wheel usually has some loose spokes and
others that are tighter than they should be. Straightening that
without loosening all spokes tries to retension the wheel while
bending the rim beyond yield. The resulting combined stresses usually
cause irrecoverable damage. Wheels are easily straightened with
controlled manual pressure AFTER spokes have been loosened about a
turn each. The procedure is explained in "the Bicycle Wheel", with
diagram, in detail better than I can repeat it here.

http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html
http://tinyurl.com/2jnuv

> I'd say the rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course the spokes
> are all lose now. Is this rim worth salvaging? It's basically a
> new wheel on a new bike, which is 4 mos. old with only around 200
> mi. on it. (I have not ridden it much because of the weather.) Can
> I still true the wheel?

I didn't see the wheel so I can't say, but it should be recoverable to
nearly new condition with a bit of skill.

> I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence, the wheel building
> post I had earlier.)

That's a good backup to have anyway but fix that wheel and get good at
it. I'm sure you patch your own tires so why not break that umbilical
chord to the shop and fix your own wheels.

By the way, people who insist on spoke wrenches with more than a
closely fitting parallel slot are people who don;'t lubricate spoke
nipples. Using a parallel jaw, easy to engage from the side, VAR 13
"butterfly" spoke wrench, spokes can be effortlessly tightened to
failure with no rounding of nipple flats. Get one!

Jobst Brandt
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Eldred

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 05:43:43 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
wrote:

[snip much that is useful]
>
>That's a good backup to have anyway but fix that wheel and get good at
>it. I'm sure you patch your own tires so why not break that umbilical
>chord to the shop and fix your own wheels.
>

Are you plucking several spokes at once to produce this chord?

How come you let your spokes get so badly out of whack that they
produce different notes?

E.

Mike Jacoubowsky

> I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily
> I only got a minor foot sprain. But the rear wheel
> (Bontrager Race Lite 700c) twisted on me. I slammed
> the "boinged" part against the ground to untwist
> it as much as I can, but this only fixed it so far and
> it's still twisted enough that it won't rotate now since
> the rear caliper brakes get in the way.

In general, the best way to straighten a rim that's actually bent is to
apply a force similar to what bent it in the opposite direction. Unless
your wheel got bent by being slammed against the ground, what you've done
has more likely put even more bends into it.

The best way to fix a bent rim is to loosen the spokes a bit and then
attempt to bend it back. This works best on rims with an "S" bend (a curve,
rather than a sharp bend). What I do is this- with the rim in a
floor-mounted truing stand (or in a bike upside-down, but it's tough to get
into a good position for the next part), I position the rim so that the bend
is towards me and, holding the rim with my hands at approximately the 10 & 2
o'clock positions, push the bend (positioned at 10 o'clock) away from me,
using my foot. Depending upon the severity of the bend, you may have to
move your hands a bit further down the rim. This is something best
practiced on wheels that are already of no value to you, since the best way
to learn how much pressure you need to apply is by applying too much.

What you don't want to do is try and true a badly bent rim using spoke
tension alone. The result will be extremely uneven spoke tension, as a
small number of spokes work hard to force a rim in a direction it really
doesn't want to go. Such wheels won't stay true very long.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Zilla" <zilla62XSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:hk2ec.15735$Lh2.8598@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily
> I only got a minor foot sprain. But the rear wheel
> (Bontrager Race Lite 700c) twisted on me. I slammed
> the "boinged" part against the ground to untwist
> it as much as I can, but this only fixed it so far and
> it's still twisted enough that it won't rotate now since
> the rear caliper brakes get in the way. I'd say the
> rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course the spokes
> are all lose now. Is this rim worth salvaging? It's
> basically a new wheel on a new bike, which is 4
> mos. old with only around 200 mi. on it. (I have not
> ridden it much because of the weather.) Can I
> still true the wheel?
>
> I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence,
> the wheel building post I had earlier.)
>
> --
> - Zilla
> Cary, NC
> (Remove XSPAM)
>
>
>

Qui si parla Campagnolo

zilla-<< I'd say the
rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course the spokes
are all lose now. Is this rim worth salvaging? >><BR><BR>

No. The rim is now bent and altho you may be able to get it pretty true by
first banging it on the ground, the tension will be wildly erratic and it won't
stay true. Go to a Trek dealer and hopefully they haven't gotten rid of all the
people that can build wheels and have them rebuild it with a new rim.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Zilla

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Zilla who? writes:
>
>> I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily I only got a minor
>> foot sprain. But the rear wheel (Bontrager Race Lite 700c) twisted
>> on me. I slammed the "boinged" part against the ground to untwist it
>> as much as I can, but this only fixed it so far and it's still
>> twisted enough that it won't rotate now since the rear caliper
>> brakes get in the way.
>
> Don't do that!!!
>
> This is an old saw that won't go away as people dent and damage rims
> of wheels that have a wow in them. It might look macho but it has no
> mechanical value. A warped wheel usually has some loose spokes and
> others that are tighter than they should be. Straightening that
> without loosening all spokes tries to retension the wheel while
> bending the rim beyond yield. The resulting combined stresses usually
> cause irrecoverable damage. Wheels are easily straightened with
> controlled manual pressure AFTER spokes have been loosened about a
> turn each. The procedure is explained in "the Bicycle Wheel", with
> diagram, in detail better than I can repeat it here.
>
> http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html
> http://tinyurl.com/2jnuv
>
>> I'd say the rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course the spokes
>> are all lose now. Is this rim worth salvaging? It's basically a
>> new wheel on a new bike, which is 4 mos. old with only around 200
>> mi. on it. (I have not ridden it much because of the weather.) Can
>> I still true the wheel?
>
> I didn't see the wheel so I can't say, but it should be recoverable to
> nearly new condition with a bit of skill.
>
>> I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence, the wheel building
>> post I had earlier.)
>
> That's a good backup to have anyway but fix that wheel and get good at
> it. I'm sure you patch your own tires so why not break that umbilical
> chord to the shop and fix your own wheels.
>
> By the way, people who insist on spoke wrenches with more than a
> closely fitting parallel slot are people who don;'t lubricate spoke
> nipples. Using a parallel jaw, easy to engage from the side, VAR 13
> "butterfly" spoke wrench, spokes can be effortlessly tightened to
> failure with no rounding of nipple flats. Get one!
>
> Jobst Brandt
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Thanks. I'll post a link of a pic of the wheel
and have you folks judge it...

--
- Zilla
Cary, NC
(Remove XSPAM)

Zilla

Zilla <zilla62XSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>> Zilla who? writes:
>>
>>> I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily I only got a minor
>>> foot sprain. But the rear wheel (Bontrager Race Lite 700c) twisted
>>> on me. I slammed the "boinged" part against the ground to untwist
>>> it as much as I can, but this only fixed it so far and it's still
>>> twisted enough that it won't rotate now since the rear caliper
>>> brakes get in the way.
>>
>> Don't do that!!!
>>
>> This is an old saw that won't go away as people dent and damage rims
>> of wheels that have a wow in them. It might look macho but it has no
>> mechanical value. A warped wheel usually has some loose spokes and
>> others that are tighter than they should be. Straightening that
>> without loosening all spokes tries to retension the wheel while
>> bending the rim beyond yield. The resulting combined stresses
>> usually cause irrecoverable damage. Wheels are easily straightened
>> with controlled manual pressure AFTER spokes have been loosened
>> about a turn each. The procedure is explained in "the Bicycle
>> Wheel", with diagram, in detail better than I can repeat it here.
>>
>> http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html
>> http://tinyurl.com/2jnuv
>>
>>> I'd say the rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course the spokes
>>> are all lose now. Is this rim worth salvaging? It's basically a
>>> new wheel on a new bike, which is 4 mos. old with only around 200
>>> mi. on it. (I have not ridden it much because of the weather.) Can
>>> I still true the wheel?
>>
>> I didn't see the wheel so I can't say, but it should be recoverable
>> to nearly new condition with a bit of skill.
>>
>>> I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence, the wheel building
>>> post I had earlier.)
>>
>> That's a good backup to have anyway but fix that wheel and get good
>> at it. I'm sure you patch your own tires so why not break that
>> umbilical chord to the shop and fix your own wheels.
>>
>> By the way, people who insist on spoke wrenches with more than a
>> closely fitting parallel slot are people who don;'t lubricate spoke
>> nipples. Using a parallel jaw, easy to engage from the side, VAR 13
>> "butterfly" spoke wrench, spokes can be effortlessly tightened to
>> failure with no rounding of nipple flats. Get one!
>>
>> Jobst Brandt
>> jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
>
> Thanks. I'll post a link of a pic of the wheel
> and have you folks judge it...
>
> --
> - Zilla
> Cary, NC
> (Remove XSPAM)

Thanks to all...

Here are some pics of the wheel I tried to take a reliable picture to
neither
emphasize nor de-emphasize the warp.

http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel1.jpg
http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel2.jpg
http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel3.jpg
http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel4.jpg
http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel5.jpg

--
- Zilla
Cary, NC
(Remove XSPAM)

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Zilla who? writes:

>>> I didn't see the wheel so I can't say, but it should be
>>> recoverable to nearly new condition with a bit of skill.

>>>> I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence, the wheel
>>>> building post I had earlier.)

>>> That's a good backup to have anyway but fix that wheel and get
>>> good at it. I'm sure you patch your own tires so why not break
>>> that umbilical chord to the shop and fix your own wheels.

>>> By the way, people who insist on spoke wrenches with more than a
>>> closely fitting parallel slot are people who don;'t lubricate
>>> spoke nipples. Using a parallel jaw, easy to engage from the
>>> side, VAR 13 "butterfly" spoke wrench, spokes can be effortlessly
>>> tightened to failure with no rounding of nipple flats. Get one!

>> Thanks. I'll post a link of a picture of the wheel and have you folks
>> judge it...

> Thanks to all...

> Here are some pictures of the wheel I tried to take a reliable
> picture to neither emphasize nor de-emphasize the warp.

http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel1.jpg
http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel2.jpg
http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel3.jpg
http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel4.jpg
http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel5.jpg

From what is visible in these pictures, that is an eminently
repairable wheel. I assume there are no kinks (short ripples) in the
"saddle" formed by the rim. Make sure the spokes are about a turn
looser than they were in last use before straightening the wheel.

As recently explained, straightening is done by laying the wheel on
the floor, placing the most laterally out of line place (marked by
felt tip pen) down, while pressing on the rim 45 degrees either side
of this point with the hands (or with knees if it is a strong rim).
Lightweight track rims deform easily by hand.

There should be a slight over-center feel to deflecting the rim while
"thrusting" on it. Repeatedly check alignment as the amount of
overshoot is increased, then move to the next worst place to repeat
that process until alignment looks close (+-5mm) to true. From this
point, spoke tightening can true the wheel. Where individual spokes
on the same side become clearly tighter than their neighbors, repeat
the bending routine carefully, with the tight spoke zone up, to
relieve this disparity. Loosening these spokes should be possible
thereafter to bring things into true.

Never bang the wheel on the ground as in the much told macho tale of
old. It can only damager the rim.

Jobst Brandt
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Luke who? writes:

> I've a wheel that I'm considering resurrecting - if for no reason
> than to profit from a lesson in advanced circular rehabilitation.

http://home.ca.inter.net/~luca/Collision/collision.html

> Regardless of the fate of the rim, I'll definitely recover the old
> Phil hub. This concern is strictly academic: if I were to acquire a
> rim with an identical ERD of the mauled Wolber (enabling an
> identical lacing pattern), would it be advisable to press the spokes
> into service once more?

From the pictures, it seems the rim has a smooth curve saddle shape
that can be corrected. This is a good one on which to practice
because the solid section rim is not a great value to worry about
throwing away but it is a good work piece. Remember to back off the
spokes before bending the rim.

Of course, always reuse spokes if they don't have a kink (a bend that
does not straighten when tensioned) but leave them in place and
transfer them one at a time to a new rim.

Jobst Brandt
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org