"Ullrich can get over last year's defeat"

Pistof

In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on OLN's Road to the
Tour. He believes that Jan's problem is that he hasn't gotten over last
year's defeat. This because Lance had so much bad luck while Jan was in his
best form ever yet could not win. I like Bob and his sense of humor, but
this is the dumbest thing he has ever said. I don't see how Jan could be
disappointed w/the 03 Tour. He came back to take second. Really, he was
the story, not Lance's fifth win. I think he may be busy with fatherhood,
not incapable of coping w/reality. If Bob were right, Jan would need
therapy 'cause he'd be nuts.

BTW, Jan says that he is on track w/his training. Not sure what that means,
but...

Dave

Richard Adams

Pistof wrote:

> In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on OLN's Road to the
> Tour. He believes that Jan's problem is that he hasn't gotten over last
> year's defeat. This because Lance had so much bad luck while Jan was in his
> best form ever yet could not win. I like Bob and his sense of humor, but
> this is the dumbest thing he has ever said. I don't see how Jan could be
> disappointed w/the 03 Tour. He came back to take second. Really, he was
> the story, not Lance's fifth win. I think he may be busy with fatherhood,
> not incapable of coping w/reality. If Bob were right, Jan would need
> therapy 'cause he'd be nuts.
>
> BTW, Jan says that he is on track w/his training. Not sure what that means,
> but...
>
> Dave

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss what an experienced pro, particularly
one who rode in europe for several seasons, has to say. Poulidor lost a
lot to Anquetil, but was still a determined fighter. Who's to say Jan
is made of, or isn't, the same stuff? It's got to be immensely
disappointing to be at your best ever and then watch some guy, who just
fell, sprint off away at a speed you can't match.

Sonarrat

in article c6a9ed$os@dispatch.concentric.net, Richard Adams at
ackthpt@concentric.net wrote on 4/22/04 10:26 PM:

> Pistof wrote:
>
>> In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on OLN's Road to the
>> Tour. He believes that Jan's problem is that he hasn't gotten over last
>> year's defeat. This because Lance had so much bad luck while Jan was in his
>> best form ever yet could not win. I like Bob and his sense of humor, but
>> this is the dumbest thing he has ever said. I don't see how Jan could be
>> disappointed w/the 03 Tour. He came back to take second. Really, he was
>> the story, not Lance's fifth win. I think he may be busy with fatherhood,
>> not incapable of coping w/reality. If Bob were right, Jan would need
>> therapy 'cause he'd be nuts.
>>
>> BTW, Jan says that he is on track w/his training. Not sure what that means,
>> but...
>>
>> Dave
>
> I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss what an experienced pro, particularly
> one who rode in europe for several seasons, has to say. Poulidor lost a
> lot to Anquetil, but was still a determined fighter. Who's to say Jan
> is made of, or isn't, the same stuff? It's got to be immensely
> disappointing to be at your best ever and then watch some guy, who just
> fell, sprint off away at a speed you can't match.

Jan was definitely not at his "best ever," if you take into consideration
how he was coming off of being fired by Telekom, the turmoil that his team
went through during the spring, etc. He didn't get as close as he did by
being on the best form of his life; he got as close as he did because Lance
had a string of misfortunes, and because Ullrich DID manage to ride himself
into form in time for that extremely hot ITT. Armstrong said afterwards
that he felt terrible, and he thought he finished 102nd, not 2nd - where was
everyone else?

-Sonarrat.

Tuschinski

Sonarrat wrote:
> Jan was definitely not at his "best ever," if you take into
> consideration how he was coming off of being fired by Telekom, the
> turmoil that his team went through during the spring, etc. He didn't get
> as close as he did by being on the best form of his life; he got as
> close as he did because Lance had a string of misfortunes, and because
> Ullrich DID manage to ride himself into form in time for that extremely
> hot ITT. Armstrong said afterwards that he felt terrible, and he thought
> he finished 102nd, not 2nd - where was everyone else?
> -Sonarrat.



Bob Roll is talking blahblah here. I agree Jan might have severe
psychological disadvantages compared to lance, but what he says about
Jan's form is ridiculous.

It wasn't as much Jan's great form as Lance's relatively bad shape. Jan
and Lance were helped by the injuries of their greatest
competitors(Hamilton/Beloki), otherwise the story would have been
different. And nope, I'm not detracting from Jan and Lance, staying in
one piece is part of the bussiness. They were the best!



--

otto

Sonarrat <mynick@nospam.hotmail> wrote in message news:<BCADFAC3.3213%mynick@nospam.hotmail>...

> Jan was definitely not at his "best ever," if you take into consideration
> how he was coming off of being fired by Telekom, the turmoil that his team
> went through during the spring, etc. He didn't get as close as he did by
> being on the best form of his life; he got as close as he did because Lance
> had a string of misfortunes, and because Ullrich DID manage to ride himself
> into form in time for that extremely hot ITT. Armstrong said afterwards
> that he felt terrible, and he thought he finished 102nd, not 2nd - where was
> everyone else?
>
> -Sonarrat.

I agree, last year was far from an ideal preparation for the Tour. he
may not be in sparkling form at the moment, but I think Roll is off
the mark. From what I've heard, it's more of a case of pressure from
the media that's stressing him out. Let' see come tour time...

Peter Allen

"Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
>
> BTW, Jan says that he is on track w/his training. Not sure what that
means,
> but...

We don't know what Jan's training schedule is. If he's just focusing on the
Tour, which looks to be the case, he's probably just getting towards the end
of base miles work, and quite possibly just fitting races into his training.
When you do that, you do not go fast in the races, because you are still
fatigued from the previous work. It doesn't mean you won't suddenly get very
fast in the last few weeks before your target race (that's the whole idea of
peaking). It's also worth pointing out that weight (for Lance as well) this
early means very little: you can easily lose 2-3 kilos of fat a month, with
no detrimental effect at all on performance. Fat loss without muscle loss is
much easier for very active people.

The alternative is that he's had some kind of complete breakdown and has
completely jacked this season: his current race form is so far below his
previous years that he'd have had to have done almost no training all winter
to get that slow.

Peter

Tom Kunich

"otto" <berchotto@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3559fe7.0404230346.5e03affa@posting.google.com...
> Sonarrat <mynick@nospam.hotmail> wrote in message
news:<BCADFAC3.3213%mynick@nospam.hotmail>...
>
> > Jan was definitely not at his "best ever,"

Would you say that the man who came in second in the fastest Tour de France
ever WASN'T in his best form ever?

> I agree, last year was far from an ideal preparation for the Tour. he
> may not be in sparkling form at the moment, but I think Roll is off
> the mark. From what I've heard, it's more of a case of pressure from
> the media that's stressing him out. Let' see come tour time...

Yeah, that Bob Roll, only the second American to finish the epic snow stage
behind Andy Hampsten the year Andy won the Giro, who rode several Tours de
France himself and who was a founding member of 7-11, Motorola and who was
called by Lance to help him come back from cancer wouldn't have any idea of
what happens with these guys.

Whereas Otto has a real handle on it.

Ewoud Dronkert

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:25:31 GMT, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Yeah, that Bob Roll, only the second American to finish the epic
> snow stage behind Andy Hampsten

Where Erik Breukink won, btw, and where Johan vd Velde was the first on
top of the passo (but stopped to warm up in a camper van).

-ED
educating the masses

Nev Shea

"Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net:

> I like Bob and
> his sense of humor, but this is the dumbest thing he has ever said.

I doubt it. This is merely his most recent dumb statement. I'm sure he has
said plenty of dumber stuff, but nobody has bothered to document it.
Personally, I start to tune him out as soon as I hear the words "Tour DAY
France"

NS

TM

"Peter Allen" <peteronusenet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsm7ic.52$9N.43@newsfe1-win...
> "Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
> >
> > BTW, Jan says that he is on track w/his training. Not sure what that
> means,
> > but...
>
> We don't know what Jan's training schedule is. If he's just focusing on
the
> Tour, which looks to be the case, he's probably just getting towards the
end
> of base miles work, and quite possibly just fitting races into his
training.
> When you do that, you do not go fast in the races, because you are still
> fatigued from the previous work. It doesn't mean you won't suddenly get
very
> fast in the last few weeks before your target race (that's the whole idea
of
> peaking). It's also worth pointing out that weight (for Lance as well)
this
> early means very little: you can easily lose 2-3 kilos of fat a month,
with
> no detrimental effect at all on performance. Fat loss without muscle loss
is
> much easier for very active people.
>
> The alternative is that he's had some kind of complete breakdown and has
> completely jacked this season: his current race form is so far below his
> previous years that he'd have had to have done almost no training all
winter
> to get that slow.
>
> Peter
>
That was a balanced and well reasoned post.

I'm sorry, you'll just have to do better than that next time. Try
flattening your perspective and using aggressive and confrontational
imagery.

Arthg

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vH9ic.6191$eZ5.5207@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "otto" <berchotto@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c3559fe7.0404230346.5e03affa@posting.google.com...
> > Sonarrat <mynick@nospam.hotmail> wrote in message
> news:<BCADFAC3.3213%mynick@nospam.hotmail>...
> >
> > > Jan was definitely not at his "best ever,"
>
> Would you say that the man who came in second in the fastest Tour de
France
> ever WASN'T in his best form ever?
>
> > I agree, last year was far from an ideal preparation for the Tour. he
> > may not be in sparkling form at the moment, but I think Roll is off
> > the mark. From what I've heard, it's more of a case of pressure from
> > the media that's stressing him out. Let' see come tour time...
>
> Yeah, that Bob Roll, only the second American to finish the epic snow
stage
> behind Andy Hampsten the year Andy won the Giro, who rode several Tours de
> France himself and who was a founding member of 7-11,

Picky picky: Bobke not a 7-11 founder. No big wup.

Motorola and who was
> called by Lance to help him come back from cancer wouldn't have any idea
of
> what happens with these guys.
>
> Whereas Otto has a real handle on it.
>
>




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benjo maso

"Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
> In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on OLN's Road to the
> Tour. He believes that Jan's problem is that he hasn't gotten over last
> year's defeat. This because Lance had so much bad luck while Jan was in
his
> best form ever yet could not win.



Heusghem had bad luck when a dog crossed the road and he lost the Tour in
1922. Brambilla had bad luck in 1947 in the Pyrenees when chasing Robic a
plane crashed just before him, so he lost some precious minutes climbing
over the wreckage. But even a flat isn't just bad luck. And in 2003
Armstrong made mistakes or wasn't as strong as he used to be. But he didn't
have bad luck.

Benjo Maso

Nev Shea

"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in
news:c6btrl$ae0sb$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de:

>
> "Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
>> In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on OLN's Road to
>> the Tour. He believes that Jan's problem is that he hasn't gotten
>> over last year's defeat. This because Lance had so much bad luck
>> while Jan was in
> his
>> best form ever yet could not win.
>
>
> Heusghem had bad luck when a dog crossed the road and he lost the Tour
> in 1922. Brambilla had bad luck in 1947 in the Pyrenees when chasing
> Robic a plane crashed just before him, so he lost some precious
> minutes climbing over the wreckage. But even a flat isn't just bad
> luck. And in 2003 Armstrong made mistakes or wasn't as strong as he
> used to be. But he didn't have bad luck.

Crashing because some kid hooked his handlebars wasn't bad luck?

But I can also think of a bit of good luck -- when Beloki crashed, Lance
was able to avoid him and go through the field because there was a little
access for a tractor. If that access had been a few feet further down the
road, LA would have crashed into a ditch.

NS

benjo maso

"Nev Shea" <spamtrap@garbage.net> wrote in message
news:byfic.6651$eZ5.199@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in
> news:c6btrl$ae0sb$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
> >
> > "Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
> >> In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on OLN's Road to
> >> the Tour. He believes that Jan's problem is that he hasn't gotten
> >> over last year's defeat. This because Lance had so much bad luck
> >> while Jan was in
> > his
> >> best form ever yet could not win.
> >
> >
> > Heusghem had bad luck when a dog crossed the road and he lost the Tour
> > in 1922. Brambilla had bad luck in 1947 in the Pyrenees when chasing
> > Robic a plane crashed just before him, so he lost some precious
> > minutes climbing over the wreckage. But even a flat isn't just bad
> > luck. And in 2003 Armstrong made mistakes or wasn't as strong as he
> > used to be. But he didn't have bad luck.
>
> Crashing because some kid hooked his handlebars wasn't bad luck?


No it wasn't. He was riding too close to the spectators.


> But I can also think of a bit of good luck -- when Beloki crashed, Lance
> was able to avoid him and go through the field because there was a little
> access for a tractor. If that access had been a few feet further down the
> road, LA would have crashed into a ditch.

Perhaps. If he hadn't seen the access for the tractor he would have reacted
differently. And of course he way he made use of it wasn't good luck at all,
but presence of mind and skill.

Benjo Maso