Re: [OT] DIY electrical work

Arthur Clune

Peter B <peter28@btinternet.com> wrote:
: starting a Google search a new one was ordered which arrived 2 days later.
: So much for regs.

The regs don't affect buying (or shouldn't).

There's nothing to stop you fitting your own boiler, but you should
get it signed off by a CORGI registed fitter afterwards if you want
to avoid problems.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

Richard Goodman

"Arthur Clune" <ajc22@york.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:cp97vu$3id$1@pump1.york.ac.uk...
> There's nothing to stop you fitting your own boiler, but you should
> get it signed off by a CORGI registed fitter afterwards if you want
> to avoid problems.

I'm vaguely inclined to think the law does prohibit connecting it up to a
gas supply though. Must see if I can find the Regs sometime..

Rich

David Hansen

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:39:53 -0000 someone who may be "Richard
Goodman" <rsk@NOSPAM.homechoice.co.uk> wrote this:-

>I'm vaguely inclined to think the law does prohibit connecting it up to a
>gas supply though. Must see if I can find the Regs sometime..

According to
http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/sec...law/the_law.asp

"Only a competent person can carry out work on gas appliances or
fittings. Do-it-yourself work on gas appliances or fittings could be
dangerous and is likely to be illegal."

They are an interested party and therefore likely to have twisted
the law as far as possible in their favour on their website.

The figures at http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/statistics.htm
don't convince me that all this red tape has made a dramatic
difference to gas safety.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Arthur Clune

David Hansen <SENDdavidNOhSPAM@spidacom.co.uk> wrote:

: According to
: http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/sec...law/the_law.asp

: "Only a competent person can carry out work on gas appliances or
: fittings. Do-it-yourself work on gas appliances or fittings could be
: dangerous and is likely to be illegal."

Notice that they don't say a CORGI registered person has to do this.

My mother's partner recently fitted a new boiler in a house they rent
out. He then got the work checked and signed off my a corgi approved
gasman. Sorted.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

Richard Goodman

"Arthur Clune" <ajc22@york.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:cpafe8$pc3$1@pump1.york.ac.uk...
> David Hansen <SENDdavidNOhSPAM@spidacom.co.uk> wrote:
>
> : According to
> : http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/sec...law/the_law.asp
>
> : "Only a competent person can carry out work on gas appliances or
> : fittings. Do-it-yourself work on gas appliances or fittings could be
> : dangerous and is likely to be illegal."
>
> Notice that they don't say a CORGI registered person has to do this.
>
> My mother's partner recently fitted a new boiler in a house they rent
> out. He then got the work checked and signed off my a corgi approved
> gasman. Sorted.
>

That it was done, does not mean it was legal. If you can find CORGI gasman
to sign it off as safe then no doubt you've got away with it. However, a bit
of googling suggests gas work is covered by The Gas Safety (Installation and
Use) Regulations 1998. The Regs. require that only a 'competent' person can
do gas 'work'. 'Competent' means approved by the Health & Safety Executive,
which surely does mean CORGI registered. Gas 'work' means installing,
reconnecting, maintaining, servicing, removing etc. a 'gas fitting'. 'Gas
fittings' means pipework, valves .. apparatus and appliances used by
consumers of gas for heating, cooking etc.

So, seems you do have to be CORGI registered to 'install' a boiler. And in
my case, to disconnect the old one. Having said that, making preparations
to install a boiler such as drilling holes in appropriate places for it to
be secured to the wall, and making a suitably sized hole in the wall for the
flue and making good around it it must be ok . But, according to the law,
you must at least use a CORGI registered person to connect the supply pipe,
the flue and the boiler together.

Rich

PeteC

Richard Goodman wrote:
> That it was done, does not mean it was legal. If you can find CORGI
> gasman to sign it off as safe then no doubt you've got away with it.
> However, a bit of googling suggests gas work is covered by The Gas
> Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998. The Regs. require
> that only a 'competent' person can do gas 'work'. 'Competent' means
> approved by the Health & Safety Executive, which surely does mean
> CORGI registered. Gas 'work' means installing, reconnecting,
> maintaining, servicing, removing etc. a 'gas fitting'. 'Gas fittings'
> means pipework, valves .. apparatus and appliances used by consumers
> of gas for heating, cooking etc.
> So, seems you do have to be CORGI registered to 'install' a boiler.

Only if you are installing the boiler or other gas appliances as part of
your business. If you are a keen amateur, you can still install your own gas
equipment - you have to be 'competent', but there is no definition of what
'competent' means. However, all the certificates and labels to state that an
installation is safe are only available to CORGI registered companies (you
need to quote your membership number to buy them); so when you come to sell
your house after a DIY installation, you may have to pay to get everything
certified - and this may cost as much again if there is any remedial work
required.

Regards,

Pete.

Richard Goodman

"PeteC" <newsgroupsdemon@removethisbitacutecomputing.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cpambh$eis$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...

> Only if you are installing the boiler or other gas appliances as part of
> your business. If you are a keen amateur, you can still install your own
> gas equipment - you have to be 'competent', but there is no definition of
> what 'competent' means. However, all the certificates and labels to state
> that an installation is safe are only available to CORGI registered
> companies (you need to quote your membership number to buy them); so when
> you come to sell your house after a DIY installation, you may have to pay
> to get everything certified - and this may cost as much again if there is
> any remedial work required.
>

My first inclination was to think you are wrong, but actually I think you
are right. The Regs say that "No person shall carry out any work in relation
to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so."
Then it goes on to a couple of paragraphs dealing with employees and
self-employed person which do effectively make competence synonymous with
CORGI registration - for people undertaking such work as a business. But,
yes, there is nothing to say what 'competence' means for someone not doing
it for reward.

Interesting. Perhaps we shall have a new boiler after all

Rich

garryb59

[snipped]

>> 'Competent' means

[snipped]

..... what exactly?

Exactly.

Do the regs still insist on this word competent? If so, why? Why not
just make it clear, absolutely, that it 'has' to be CORGI and nothing
else, not even competent?

For me, I couldn't give a toss, couldn't give a flying f***. I've been
wanting to change the pipe from my meter to my boiler [which I
installed myself] from 15mm to 22mm for ages - it's a 18m run [and
that's a lot], with several bends, so you can imagine how much
efficiency I was losing. I was hesitent about taking a torch to the
meter [really?] until I watched a plumber doing a similiar procedure
[when I was doing a decorating job] and thought to myself.....'ah,
right, that's how....'

Few days later...

Needless to say, I now have a s***- hot shower, magic. What a
satisfying job that was. Fired up like beauty...

Naughty boy.....sorry couldn't give a ...

Just need to apply the same urgency to my recumbent and I might
actually get it finished....cheapo lever steering ain't painless..

Garry

Arthur Clune

Richard Goodman <rsk@nospam.homechoice.co.uk> wrote:

: flue and making good around it it must be ok . But, according to the law,
: you must at least use a CORGI registered person to connect the supply pipe,
: the flue and the boiler together.

Indeed. But that doesn't mean you can't fit the boiler and connect up the
radiators etc etc. It's the final step that has to be done by a CORGI person.
Which (though I didn't make it clear) was indeed done in this case.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

Clive George

"Arthur Clune" <ajc22@york.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:cpbu85$bkp$2@pump1.york.ac.uk...
> Richard Goodman <rsk@nospam.homechoice.co.uk> wrote:
>
> : flue and making good around it it must be ok . But, according to the
law,
> : you must at least use a CORGI registered person to connect the supply
pipe,
> : the flue and the boiler together.
>
> Indeed. But that doesn't mean you can't fit the boiler and connect up the
> radiators etc etc. It's the final step that has to be done by a CORGI
person.
> Which (though I didn't make it clear) was indeed done in this case.

Apologies for repeating what others have mentioned already - it doesn't have
to be done by a CORGI person.

It has to be done by a competent person. CORGI is the standard way of
demonstrating competence, although others exist (eg British Gas fitters
aren't in CORGI afaik), and for personal work you don't have to be certified
by anybody.

Now it may well be sensible to get a CORGI person to look over your
installation before turning the gas on. But you can do all the connections
yourself.

Caveat - the law is slacker than a lot of people think, but this isn't
necessarily a bad thing, as a lot of people are less competent than they
think. So only do this sort of thing if you're _really_ sure - and have some
experience of making joints.

cheers,
clive

Arthur Clune

Clive George <clive@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

: It has to be done by a competent person. CORGI is the standard way of
: demonstrating competence, although others exist (eg British Gas fitters
: aren't in CORGI afaik), and for personal work you don't have to be certified
: by anybody.

This was in a rented house (ie one they rent out) so I think it did have to
be (and was) certified.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

Richard Goodman

"Clive George" <clive@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:31tee6F3eipueU1@individual.net...
> Apologies for repeating what others have mentioned already - it doesn't
> have
> to be done by a CORGI person.
>
> It has to be done by a competent person. CORGI is the standard way of
> demonstrating competence, although others exist (eg British Gas fitters
> aren't in CORGI afaik), and for personal work you don't have to be
> certified
> by anybody.
>

You are correct, but one can see where the confusion arises: The law says
two things of relevance to qualification: Firstly, in a general sense, it
requires 'competence'. Secondly, in the sense specific to carrying out work
as an employee or self-employed person, it says they must be in a class of
members approved by the Health & Safety Executive to do that work. This
implicitly suggests that 'competence' = CORGI registration because the HSE
take it as such. Perhaps they also approve people employed by British Gas.
And so everyone else, and particularly gas-fitters themselves, assume or
like to put it about that CORGI registration is necessary to do gas fitting
work. I certainly did, even after reading the Regs, and failing to note the
distinction (between doing it for reward and doing it otherwise than as an
employed person). I have even heard of gas-fitters saying you can't even
turn on your own pilot light or connect a cooker to the supply with a
bayonnet fitting. It's in their interests to say it, although whether they
say it out of ignorance or self-interest is perhaps debatable. But, as you
say, there is no definition of 'competence' for someone doing the work for
themselves, and the law doesn't say actually say that only CORGI registered
people can do gas fitting work.

Rich

Clive George

"Arthur Clune" <ajc22@york.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:cpc45j$b0r$1@pump1.york.ac.uk...
> Clive George <clive@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> : It has to be done by a competent person. CORGI is the standard way of
> : demonstrating competence, although others exist (eg British Gas fitters
> : aren't in CORGI afaik), and for personal work you don't have to be
certified
> : by anybody.
>
> This was in a rented house (ie one they rent out) so I think it did have
to
> be (and was) certified.

Fair enough - rented houses are different.

cheers,
clive

Ian Smith

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Richard Goodman <rsk@NOSPAM.homechoice.co.uk> wrote:

> of googling suggests gas work is covered by The Gas Safety (Installation and
> Use) Regulations 1998. The Regs. require that only a 'competent' person can
> do gas 'work'. 'Competent' means approved by the Health & Safety Executive,
> which surely does mean CORGI registered.

No it doesn't. Competent means competent. If you can do teh work and
it can pass teh safety inspection, you are demonstrably competent at
the tasks undertaken.

> So, seems you do have to be CORGI registered to 'install' a boiler.

No, you need to be competent. That's what the law says, it's just you
that says CORGI is teh only demonstartion of being competent. If you
look at CORGIs own information, even they don't claim to be the only
way to demosntarte competence, and you can be certain they'd say that
if they could.

> But, according to the law,
> you must at least use a CORGI registered person to connect the supply pipe,
> the flue and the boiler together.

No, that's according to Rich. According to the law, you need to be
competent to do so.

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