Roads Gone Wild

Pete Bentley

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

"No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."

Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
to think differently.

Pete.

Sara

In article <cpc562$otn$1@news.mimir.com>, Pete Bentley
<pete@sorted.org> wrote:

> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html
>
> "No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
> driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."
>
> Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
> but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
> to think differently.
>
Blimey. It sounds sane - it'll never catch on

Richard Goodman

"Pete Bentley" <pete@sorted.org> wrote in message
news:cpc562$otn$1@news.mimir.com...
> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html
>
> "No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
> driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."
>
> Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
> but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
> to think differently.
>

I've been enthusiastic about it ever since I first heard about it, and it's
not that new now. I just wish more attention was being paid to it and we
could get on with ripping out lights, signs, one way systems and speed bumps
here! I really do believe traffic would flow more smoothly, and more
safely.

Rich

dkahn400

Richard Goodman wrote:

> I've been enthusiastic about it ever since I first heard about it,
> and it's not that new now. I just wish more attention was being
> paid to it and we could get on with ripping out lights, signs, one
> way systems and speed bumps here! I really do believe traffic would
> flow more smoothly, and more safely.
>
Let's start by ripping out 99% of the cycle lanes.

--
Dave...

Paul - xxx

Pete Bentley vaguely muttered something like ...
> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html
>
> "No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
> driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."
>
> Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
> but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
> to think differently.

Sounds different, and plausible, enough to actually work.

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."
(8(|) Homer Rules !!!

Richard Goodman

"dkahn400" <dkahn400@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1102687186.739014.265090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> Let's start by ripping out 99% of the cycle lanes.
>

Good point! I'll go along with that

Rich

Toby Sleigh

> Let's start by ripping out 99% of the cycle lanes.
>
> --
> Dave...
>
Hear, hear

Toby

Arthur Clune

Richard Goodman <rsk@nospam.rsk.homechoice.co.uk> wrote:

: I've been enthusiastic about it ever since I first heard about it, and it's

I'm not keen. The times traffic lights fail it's deeply hair to get across
some junctions on a bike.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

Simonb

Arthur Clune wrote:
> Richard Goodman <rsk@nospam.rsk.homechoice.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I've been enthusiastic about it ever since I first heard about it,
>> and it's
>
> I'm not keen. The times traffic lights fail it's deeply hair to get
> across some junctions on a bike.
>
> Arthur

I think it involves more than simply removing the signs, etc. It seems to
involve reshaping the roadway as well. Anyhow, I noticed when the lights
went out at a huge junction, very close to where I live, there wasn't chaos
at all. In fact everyone was taking lots more care as no-one was assuming
anything. This lasted for about a week -- god knows what was wrong with the
lights which they couldn't fix in all that time.

Richard Goodman

"Arthur Clune" <ajc22@york.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:cpcg6p$st5$1@pump1.york.ac.uk...
> I'm not keen. The times traffic lights fail it's deeply hair to get across
> some junctions on a bike.
>

That is the fear that stops it happening of course isn't it? It's counter
intuitive. It goes against decades of road traffic planning and thinking,
and people have got used to the way things are. Without signs to tell them
what to do, people think it will be chaos. Perhaps it wouldn't work
everywhere - it seems to be mainly an inner city thing. But where it has
been tried, it seems to have been a success. Busy junctions have been
redesigned, the signs pulled out, and the death rate has fallen - in the
article referred to by the OP, from 3 per year in one place to zero. What
I've read about it is enough to persuade me at least that it can be done and
does work, and would probably be better for all road users than the
continual proliferation of traffic lights, traffic islands, pinch points,
speed bumps and segregated cycle provision that in the end just creates more
congestion, frustration and danger, that we keep seeing here. 'Here' for me
at least, being London.

Rich

Sam Salt

Paul - xxx wrote:
> Pete Bentley vaguely muttered something like ...
>> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html
>>
>> "No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
>> driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."
>>
>> Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
>> but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
>> to think differently.
>
> Sounds different, and plausible, enough to actually work.

Why do these innovative schemes always seem to be thought of and developed
in other countries,usually The Netherlands or Scandinavia? There does seem
to be a lot of sensible thought behind the ideas,although I first heard
about similar practices a couple of years ago.Practical or sensible or not I
would bet a pound to a penny that in say twenty years we will still not have
seen any application of ideas like this except in the odd pocket of forward
thinking.
In my odd and superficial brush with the thoughts of Traffic Engineers I
found them to be very fixed in their ideas and loathe to take on new
thinking,especially if it impedes the onward progress of the great god "car
".
Here in Wakefield the presence of an Avanced Stop Line is seen as something
radical so I think these ideas will be a little while coming.


Sam Salt

JLB

Richard Goodman wrote:
> "Pete Bentley" <pete@sorted.org> wrote in message
> news:cpc562$otn$1@news.mimir.com...
>
>>http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html
>>
>>"No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
>>driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."
>>
>>Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
>>but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
>>to think differently.
>>
>
>
> I've been enthusiastic about it ever since I first heard about it, and it's
> not that new now. I just wish more attention was being paid to it and we
> could get on with ripping out lights, signs, one way systems and speed bumps
> here! I really do believe traffic would flow more smoothly, and more
> safely.

I doubt it would be more smoothly; part of the point is that it forces
drivers to slow down, take care and think about what is going on around
them. A driver can no longer assume right of way, because everyone is
effectively equal in priority. But, yes, I really would be delighted to
see it given a serious test here. It might undermine the drivers' belief
that everything is there just for them (which encourages them to
maltreat cyclists and other road users). Just as good it would remove
innumerable obstacles from the pavements. It amazes me how ready the
council is to stick things all over the pavement as though that was the
pavement's primary purpose.


--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

Jeremy Parker

"dkahn400" <dkahn400@yahoo.co.uk> wrote

[snip]

> Let's start by ripping out 99% of the cycle lanes.

That's about right. I wish to publicly state that, contrary to
rumour, I am not 100% against bike lanes.

Second thoughts: on the other hand, that would imply that there are
about 3km of good bike lanes in London. I think that's an over
estimate.

Jeremy Parker

Pete whelan

Pete Bentley wrote:
> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html
>
> "No street signs. No crosswalks. No accidents. Surprise: Making
> driving seem more dangerous could make it safer."
>
> Somehow can't see it working in, say, the West End of London
> but an it's interesting that traffic engineers are starting
> to think differently.
>
> Pete.

it's one of the things I've thought of for a long time. The UK appears
to have far more directional/instructional street furniture than other
european countries - maybe it is a reflection of the poor standard of
drivers in the UK