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15-06.-2005, 04:29 AM
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#1 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Not quite there
Posts: 968
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Flyer (Question)
Dude,
You've got some issues with this doping thing. What's your deal (background)? I checked out your posts and you seem to be a one man, anti-doping campaign. Is it REALLY as bad as you make it out to be? If so where's your "proof"? With the testing the I know pro riders go through, I just can't believe it is as bad as you make it out to be. I just don't get it (maybe I'm naive). Why the emotion (I was going to use "anger" but thought that was too strong a word). I'm not trying to flame you, I'm trying to figure out what drives you to post what you do. Why should I beleive you? Me, I'm a mid-30's recreational rider. Never even through about racing or dope..... As I said, I'm not trying to get into a flame war, I would just like a little more "proof" when you post "acusitory" statements. That might win you a few more points... L
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Cheap, Strong and Light. Pick any Two. |
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15-06.-2005, 06:54 AM
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#3 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 262
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Re: Flyer (Question)
Flyer,
I'm with Lonnie Utah on this topic. He asked you a question and you gave him a run around answer. No real proof in ANY of your posts. When asked for examples, you give off information that you have read, but nothing firm. I would love to see your "proof", it would really help make sence of your posts, but you NEVER have, and probobly never will give anything concrete. Something that can be proven is the fact that the lists you give as to cyclists that have died due to doping is false. Not one of the death certificates for these guys lists EPO/doping or performance enhancers as the DIRECT cause of death, not even associated with or due to. Another claim you have is that cycling has turned to doping for commercial profit. I bet the shoes on your feet are Nike and ALL of the cloths on your back are "Brand Name." The sad truth of society today is that everything is associated to a name. Cycling just uses the "marketability" to promote the sport, as do all other sports. Dude, this is not a personal attack against you and your beliefs, it is just a question as to how you can come up with some of your statements. I'd love to hear or see some concrete evidence on doping from you, but right now, you don't provide any of that. |
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15-06.-2005, 08:33 AM
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#5 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Not quite there
Posts: 968
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Re: Flyer (Question)
Quote:
Flyer, Thanks for your replies. I won't disagree, as you have obviously put more time into this than I care to, but even if doping is widespread, what about the old adage "innocent until proven guilty." Again, I'm not baiting you, I'm simply searching for answers.... L
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Cheap, Strong and Light. Pick any Two. |
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15-06.-2005, 08:46 AM
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#6 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 860
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Re: Flyer (Question)
Flyer has yet to provide one shred of evidence that would be worth anything in a court of law. All he does is provide unproven accusations, a few facts (very few) and an abundance of opinion based on tenuous at best information. he is the biggest coward on this forum, having never answered a question that takes him to task directly or stepped up to a challenge. He is someone out for attention and will say anything to get it. Read through his archives and you will see this. You will also see how, after touting something over and over, he will drop it in the face of reality biting him in the ass. He is merely a lonely attention seeker who claims to love the sport but only rips on it and everyone involved, including any poster on this forum who doesn't agree 100% with him. Look at how often he will bump a thread from months or even a year or so ago with the same thing he already posted in it...just for attention. Read through my archive and his and you will see all of this.
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16-06.-2005, 12:15 AM
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#9 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Not quite there
Posts: 968
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Re: Flyer (Question)
Quote:
Flyer, What, in your opinion, should be done to resolve the doping problem? I've seen alot of stuff from you, but I don't think I've ever seen you offer an opinion on what the solution is (it may be there, I just might not have seen it).
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Cheap, Strong and Light. Pick any Two. |
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16-06.-2005, 12:25 AM
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#10 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 860
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Re: Flyer (Question)
Quote:
Do you see what i am saying Utah? There could not have been a better response to prove my point. |
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16-06.-2005, 02:13 AM
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#11 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,125
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Re: Flyer (Question)
He knows there can't be anything done about that..........like in all businesses and sports.....cheaters/lyers everywhere. Like I said before: you/he better deal with it.........And to go back to youre first respond I also pointed out to him that he has some huge fixation about doping. He has said that friends of him doped........and he has ridden with dopers......maybe there is youre answer. Still I would never post that much about it.
But hee everyone has there own fixation. Quote:
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16-06.-2005, 02:53 AM
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#12 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 696
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Re: Flyer (Question)
Quote:
Actually, there is no "guilt" with a breach of the rules. It is an internal civil procedure reluctantly established by the UCI at the demands of WADA. A respondent in a civil proceedings if they lose a case are up for suspension, expulsion, damages, fine, etc. No where is the word "guilty" used. No incarceration on being found in breach and fines would only have to be paid if you or your team wished to continue in the sport. There would be no issue of an arrest warrant if you failed to show for a CAS Hearing. OJ Simpson went through it and it appears Michael Jackson is heading that way. Europeans accept that the peloton dopes. From these forums it is quite apparent that Americans have difficulty in finding that palatable, particularly now that Americans are winning. Cycling is huge in Europe and it is not uncommon for someone to know of an ex pro of any tier level who is paying the price in his health from doping. There exists circumstantial evidence that the peloton dopes. One strong piece is the number of "asthmatics" in the peloton are 14 times higher than the average general population. However, it appears only circumstantial evidence that is in breach of the rules nabs riders. Like getting caught in possession of forbidden drugs. Not the dope tests.
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VF "Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat" |
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16-06.-2005, 04:20 AM
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#13 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Not quite there
Posts: 968
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Re: Flyer (Question)
Quote:
True. I have one for redheads (So why did I marry a blonde????)  L
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Cheap, Strong and Light. Pick any Two. |
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16-06.-2005, 06:36 AM
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#15 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,498
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Re: Flyer (Question)
I also have had a problem with the looser rules of evidence regarding doping. It is becoming a modern witch hunt. However, given the difficulty of detecting some of the doping products, absolute proof isn't always forthcoming.
Information on doping in the peloton has been sketchy at best, when it comes to actual proof. The only people talking usually have an axe to grind, and their information could well be biased. A fired soeignor, a mechanic who thinks the star owes him a bike shop, a doctor who left the team under dubious circumstances. The accusations may be true, but so far the accusers have always been tainted with the possibility of ulterior motives. It's a shadowy world. Even WADA is not exactly impartial - Dick Pound tends to shout first and verify later (if at all) so even his pronouncements can be suspect. Usually, he is right, but an accusation from him is not a guarantee of guilt. Even those caught are not necessarily given the same treatment. Virenque came back from a doping conviction to win King of the Mountain, and retire with honor. Pantani did not, his doping conviction led to his demise, and many feel that he was unfairly made into a sacrificial lamb. The politics of the peloton extend to doping convictions, too. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Stop the doping with draconian tactics, and you make cyclists into virtual prisoners. Don't stop it, and the sport's credibility will be destroyed, along with the cyclists. In the end, it's all about money. The financial rewards of being a top cyclist are huge. For that sort of money, teams will bend the rules, and individuals will risk their own health. So how many cyclists dope today? Beats me. But at least I'll admit that I don't have a clue. |
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