tcr elite

05-08.-2005, 08:23 PM	#1
jbbcj Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 17	tcr elite Has anyone got any information on the tcr elite. what year. Is it marketed as race or comfort.

06-08.-2005, 04:01 PM

rooman

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Me!bourne, Lat/Long -37.9870,145.0419

Posts: 1,160

Re: tcr elite

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbbcj

Has anyone got any information on the tcr elite. what year. Is it marketed as race or comfort.

see this for some info: http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/?id...tures/giant_day

it, IMHO , like all production bikes, is a pizza......

sorry they dont win me....blah!!

__________________

I think..that the greatest benefit to cyclists would ensue if government were to..gradually signify and produce society's view that cycling is a legitimate form of roadway transportation, open to all on an equal basis of proper skills and responsibilities that are easily attained and exercised.(John Forester)

08-08.-2005, 09:51 PM

artemidorus

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Sydney, Australia

Posts: 2,181

Re: tcr elite

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooman

it, IMHO , like all production bikes, is a pizza......

What a load of tripe!

08-08.-2005, 10:12 PM

rooman

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Me!bourne, Lat/Long -37.9870,145.0419

Posts: 1,160

Re: tcr elite

Quote:

Originally Posted by artemidorus

What a load of tripe!

IMHO...ok! so? ...yeah?.... well?....??, fill me in ? , you have an opinion, elaborate?...they have a place for some... but to me they are mass produced bikes just like mass produced pizzas and they make too many compromises in the design and production process to allow a consistent ride quality and rider comfort and safety across all sizes...it cant happen, it doesnt happen.... that's my stand on production bikes and mass produced velos like Giant, Trek Avanti, Lightspeed, and lately Bianchi....do you have an interest that demands some other view, what?
is it to be revealed that the tcr is NOT mass produced...oh mein got im himmel...you mean they lied to us, they are really custom bikes for every rider and the LBSs, every one of them, lop off the chain stays at 40cm and paint them to all look the same...nah don't think so!

How many custom makers will hide from you when you bring it back and say WTF is this a bike or a bucking sheep that's trying to maim or kill me? huh? !...fill me in, may be even.....elighten me.....always happy to hear and listen to words of more than two syllables.

Last edited by rooman : 08-08.-2005 at 10:29 PM.

09-08.-2005, 10:24 AM

Yohans

Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2003

Posts: 4

Re: tcr elite

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbbcj

Has anyone got any information on the tcr elite. what year. Is it marketed as race or comfort.

It is marketed as having a "relaxed 'Elite' frame geometry -- the ultimate bike for touring, benefit rides and serious commuting."

see http://www.giantbicycles.com/us/030...=2003&range=139

I have one. I bought from CBD cycles in 2003. I am very happy with it.

10-08.-2005, 08:54 AM

artemidorus

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Sydney, Australia

Posts: 2,181

Re: tcr elite

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooman

IMHO...ok! so? ...yeah?.... well?....??, fill me in ? , you have an opinion, elaborate?.

Gladly:
Firstly, this isn't the first time I've seen you make this kind of trollish post about production bikes

Quote:

...they have a place for some... but to me they are mass produced bikes just like mass produced pizzas...

and mass-produced cars and mass-produced televisions and mass-produced bicycle tyres...
Quite clearly, the mere fact that something is mass produced is neither here nor there, it simply makes it more likely that something will be better priced.

Quote:

and they make too many compromises in the design and production process to allow a consistent ride quality and rider comfort and safety across all sizes...it cant happen, it doesnt happen....

Of course it doesn't happen and no bicycle manufacturer would so pretend. Any reasonable person knows that if a given bike doesn't fit in whatever size, then try another model or brand. Put on a different stem or seat post. Only a small fraction of people won't fit any production bike.

Quote:

that's my stand on production bikes and mass produced velos like Giant, Trek Avanti, Lightspeed, and lately Bianchi..

Clearly!

Quote:

..do you have an interest that demands some other view, what?

I ride bikes. I don't like seeing tripe propagated.

Quote:

is it to be revealed that the tcr is NOT mass produced...oh mein got im himmel...you mean they lied to us, they are really custom bikes for every rider and the LBSs, every one of them

Facetious.

Quote:

lop off the chain stays at 40cm

Not this BS about chain stays again!

Quote:

How many custom makers will hide from you when you bring it back and say WTF is this a bike or a bucking sheep that's trying to maim or kill me?

The person who is ultimately responsible for the fit of a bike being taken out of the shop is the buyer, although I would agree that the vendor has some responsibility. The manufacturer of a bike bears no responsibility, unless they are selling it as a custom-made bike. In my early twenties, I bought at least one bike that was too small, and I blame my own impetuousness for that.
If you're not sure, keep your money in your pocket, try some more bikes, read some more guiding information and speak to some wise people.

Quote:

huh? !...fill me in, may be even.....elighten me.....always happy to hear and listen to words of more than two syllables.

Always happy to oblige.

jbbcj, it seems to be a comfort bike rather than for racing. If you want a race bike from Giant, try the TCR Composite or Alloy. (I have the latter.) Giants are well made and good value, but no more so than many other brands.

10-08.-2005, 09:51 AM

rooman

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Me!bourne, Lat/Long -37.9870,145.0419

Posts: 1,160

Re: tcr elite

Quote:

Originally Posted by artemidorus

Gladly:
trollish .....

HARDLY.....I, TOO RIDE BIKES, 350-500 KLMS PER WEEK, I ALSO HAVE AN OPINION ON BIKES THAT ISNT CLOUDED BY RETAILERS DEMANDS OF TURNOVER AND LOTS OF FISH IN THE SEA...

be better priced. CERTAINLY THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD LIKE, OFTEN THOUGH IT IS REDUCED FIT FOR PURPOSE THROUGH DESIGN CONSTRAINTS FROM MASS PRODUCTION METHODS AS WELL AS LOWER QUALITY COMPONENTRY , THAT CAN BE AN ISSUE (BUT WE ALL DO GET WHAT WE PAY FOR IN THE END, ABSOLUTLEY)

Put on a different stem or seat post. Only a small fraction of people won't fit any production bike. WHICH IS A START, BUT NOT THE WHOLE SOLUTION FOR MOST RIDERS WHO HAVE TO DO THIS

.....................................

Not this BS about chain stays again!......ELEMENTARY DEAR ARTY, ITS THE WHEEL BASE THAT MOST RIDES COME UP SHORT ON, ESPECIALLY ROAD BIKES BUT THAT IS OT, AS OUR FRIEND IS INTERESTED IN THE TCR1, OK, I iORIGINALLY KEPT THIS SHORT, GIVING OUR THREADER A LINK, PARDON ME FOR ADDING AN OPINION BASED ON MANY THOUSANDS OF KILOMETERS OF RIDING COMFORT, TOURER, BMX, ROAD AND TRACK...OBVIOUSLY THATS TRIPE..

The person who is ultimately responsible for the fit of a bike being taken out of the shop is the buyer, although I would agree that the vendor has some responsibility. The manufacturer of a bike bears no responsibility, unless they are selling it as a custom-made bike. In my early twenties, I bought at least one bike that was too small, and I blame my own impetuousness for that.
If you're not sure, keep your money in your pocket, try some more bikes, read some more guiding information and speak to some wise people.

YOU COULDNT BE MORE WRONG..THE SELLER HAS A DUTY THAT THE ITEM IS FIT FOR PURPOSE...IT IS NOT SOLEY A BLING BLING PURCHASE, THIS IS OFTEN OVERLOOKED (PURPOSEFULLY IN SOME CASES, JUST TO MAKE A SALE)...THE MANUFACTURER LIKEWISE HAS A DUTY OF CARE IN PRODUCING A PRODUCT THAT IS SAFE, & CAN PERFORM TO THE STANDARDS OF A REASONABLE MAN ( WITH OBVIOUS INCLUSION OF THE ROLE OF THE SELLER IN ENSURING THE BUYERS NEEDS ARE KNOWN). THE NUMBER OF PRODUCT RECALLS FORCED BY THE US REGULATORS ON BIKE MAKERS IS HUGE ALL OF THEM ARE IN THERE

......................

I TOO HAVE A GIANT IN MY QUIVER, IT IS A COMMUTER, ONE WHERE GIANT ACTUALLY GOT THE GEOMETRY RIGHT (YEP DECENT LENGTH CHAINSTAYS), BUT IT SURE ISNT A TOP END BEAST THAT I PAID THROUGH THE NOSE FOR TO FIND IT WOULDNT DELIVER....BUT IT IS STILL A PIZZA,

jbbcj, it seems to be a comfort bike rather than for racing. If you want a race bike from Giant, try the TCR Composite or Alloy. (I have the latter.) Giants are well made and good value, but no more so than many other brands.

jbbcy, hope you found info on the link, at the end of the day, if it fits you fine, just be careful that it will do what you want it to do, safely before you part with the readies...safe riding.

10-08.-2005, 10:35 AM

artemidorus

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Sydney, Australia

Posts: 2,181

Re: tcr elite

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooman

OFTEN THOUGH IT IS REDUCED FIT FOR PURPOSE THROUGH DESIGN CONSTRAINTS FROM MASS PRODUCTION METHODS

I've never noticed any faults due to mass production.

Quote:

AS WELL AS LOWER QUALITY COMPONENTRY

Componentry is always obvious; if you don't like it, have it changed or get another bike.

Quote:

ELEMENTARY DEAR ARTY, ITS THE WHEEL BASE THAT MOST RIDES COME UP SHORT ON, ESPECIALLY ROAD BIKES

My rear tyre pokes into a dimple in the seat tube, so I guess my chain stays are very short (as are those of all the bikes I noticed in the TDF). My bike is comfortable for all day rides and stable on fast descents, so I can't accept that long chain stays are important.

Quote:

YOU COULDNT BE MORE WRONG..THE SELLER HAS A DUTY THAT THE ITEM IS FIT FOR PURPOSE...IT IS NOT SOLEY A BLING BLING PURCHASE, THIS IS OFTEN OVERLOOKED (PURPOSEFULLY IN SOME CASES, JUST TO MAKE A SALE).

No, it is simply not enforcable. You cannot demonstrate in court that your top tube is 2cm too long, so a vendor will never have to be responsible for bike fit. Of course, they want your continued custom and should take pains with fit, but they are not ultimately responsible. The buyer is the only one who will make sure it fits.

Quote:

...THE MANUFACTURER LIKEWISE HAS A DUTY OF CARE IN PRODUCING A PRODUCT THAT IS SAFE, & CAN PERFORM TO THE STANDARDS OF A REASONABLE MAN

I wasn't commenting on build defects, just fit. Clearly, if a defect is present, custom or mass manufacturers need to fix it. I'm not aware of any stats showing that custom bikes are less likely to be defective.

Quote:

THE NUMBER OF PRODUCT RECALLS FORCED BY THE US REGULATORS ON BIKE MAKERS IS HUGE ALL OF THEM ARE IN THERE

None of these recalls are for fit.

Quote:

BUT IT IS STILL A PIZZA,

Just like a Rolex watch or an Audi A8, pizzas both.

11-08.-2005, 12:30 AM	#9
rooman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Me!bourne, Lat/Long -37.9870,145.0419 Posts: 1,160	Re: tcr elite FWIW, in 05, Armstrong's SSLx & TTX were both lengthened at request of LA and Brunyeel to improve stability and handling characteristics. Talk to the likes of Phil Anderson, he'll fill you in on what the TdeF geometry has to be to win, you might be surpised when you find out the geometry of most bikes of the tour .... Arty, you may recall, at the beginning I prefaced my remark with IMHO, its my opinion, not lightly developed either, I base it on many years of riding the wrong bikes, and finding out very late in life that I neednt have had the aches, pain, discomfort or agony and almost debilitating long term injury that those bikes had almost caused me...I discovered in time that I was one person ( and I am told by several reputable bike fitters, In Sydney and Melbourne,) like a huge proportion of our population who cannot fit on production bikes for long term riding health. Something will suffer in the long term , knees, back, neck, hips, something.....you see unlike cars and watches, bikes are a machine that can only perform to the limits of the riders phsyiology and capability. It is this distinctly personal element of rider physiology that differentiates bikes, especially those that will be used for lengthy periods and at a high level of application ( racing, touring, TTs), that is why much damage can be done to most riders who extend their riding at this level because of little thought to what they should be riding at the time they make their decision...this isnt helped by the stocks they are offered and the selling style of many LBS staff. They may make adjustments with seat and stem, but that is just the start, often it is more than that, which goes to the frame, it usually is beyond just top tube and seat tube length, it includes:- head angle, trail, seat tube angle and wheelbase ( including chainstay) which have to be right for pain free optimum output. This is not some whinging whining one off situation and it cant be dismissed by a word of two syllables as you have tried to do.... You were lucky with your physiology and frame selection of a suitable production bike..others arent so lucky...your luck, doesnt qualify you to dismiss opinions of others so lightly and flippantly..... I am not going on any more as this thread is not ours for that purpose, our friend in riding asked for some opinions, he got yours, he got mine, that's good, now let him/her consider the merit of otherwise in his / her own way and hopefully have pain free enjoyable safe riding. __________________ I think..that the greatest benefit to cyclists would ensue if government were to..gradually signify and produce society's view that cycling is a legitimate form of roadway transportation, open to all on an equal basis of proper skills and responsibilities that are easily attained and exercised.(John Forester)

11-08.-2005, 02:24 AM

#10

Fat Hack

Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2003

Posts: 238

Re: tcr elite

Please don't crack the shits with me, but.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooman

.I discovered in time that I was one person by several.... like a huge proportion of our population who cannot fit on production bikes for long term riding health. Something will suffer in the long term , knees, back, neck, hips, something

I tried to ignore this thread, but I can't get past this bit. If, when you say "huge proportion", you mean a majority or a large minority, you're wrong.

I read that "Kennedy Cycle Fit" thread a while ago, and you had a bad experience when some prick sold you the wrong size bike, right? Then John Kennedy fixed you up best he could, right? At the risk of over simplyfying this, and probably sounding patronising in the process, you're generalising from your own experiences.

Are you saying that all production bikes are crap, or only mass produced bikes? And how much "mass" is "mass" before they become crap?

Either way, I would say that most production bikes very good; many fantastic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooman

Something will suffer in the long term , knees, back, neck, hips, something.....you see unlike cars and watches, bikes are a machine that can only perform to the limits of the riders phsyiology and capability. It is this distinctly personal element of rider physiology that differentiates bikes, especially those that will be used for lengthy periods and at a high level of application ( racing, touring, TTs), that is why much damage can be done to most riders who extend their riding at this level because of little thought to what they should be riding at the time they make their decision...this isnt helped by the stocks they are offered and the selling style of many LBS staff. They may make adjustments with seat and stem, but that is just the start, often it is more than that, which goes to the frame, it usually is beyond just top tube and seat tube length, it includes:- head angle, trail, seat tube angle and wheelbase ( including chainstay) which have to be right for pain free optimum output.

All this stuff sounds like it's straight out of the Kennedy and Steve Hogg sales brochure. It's all just too much; a total exaggeration. Some people do need this detail, but I would say it's rare for someone to need a custom frame. You're over blowing the whole fit issue, most likely (as I said) due to your own negative experiences. There are plenty of people out there with injuries, but it's due to other factors, not because they didn't get a custom frame. And to intimate that big adjustments can't be made with stems, spacers/steerers and seat posts is also inaccurate.

The old "everyone would be better off with a custom frame" thing -- and I'm not necessarily saying youve said that -- reminds me of the total BS I was fed as a young guy when I was racing in the late 80s and early 90s. I was continually bullied by guys with vested interests into thinking that I HAD to have a custom frame or my bike would spontaneously combust, or I would be crippled by some spine injury.

When I told one of Paconi's bike shop mates that I couldn't afford a custom, and was going to buy a cheaper 531 Raleigh, he would say to say to me: "do your want your cheap production frame to fail on you in the middle of a race and have all your teeth knocked out?" Talk about scare tactics!! So, when we rocked up to the VFL Park criteriums, 70% of the riders had Paconis, Perkins and Hillmans. It was mostly TOTAL BS: most of us didn't need a custom frame to race well.

By the way, the stuff John Kennedy says about the longer chain stays I really agree with -- I mean, would it kill manufactuers to make 42cm chain stays to improve comfort, stability and chain line, or would this weaken the area too much? I don't understand why we have to have 395, 400 or 405mm stays.

Anyway, the fact is, the majority of us do fine on production bikes.

Last edited by Fat Hack : 11-08.-2005 at 02:54 AM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode