Climbing hills

samcrx3

Hi, I'm a reasonably new to cycling. I have been riding for about a year now with the local bicycle user group. I seem to be having a lot of trouble in keeping up with the other riders, so much so that they lose me and I'm then on my own. I'm a small (150cm) female rider, aged 38 and weigh about 55kg. My bike is a 2005 Giant CRX3 flat bar with a 42 frame (the smallest you can get). I've now got clipless pedals and am using them well. I'm just wondering if this is just a fitness issue or is there more to it that I don't know about. I just lose everyone on the hills. I seem to be breathing a lot harder than the others. I try to take my time, pacing myself in a low gear and spin, but on a big hill I just conk out. Today I participated in a ride to Mount Panorama to greet the team who cycled from Melbourne to Bathurst to raise money for Make a Wish Foundation. Some of us went for a ride around the mount and I decided to give it a go. It nearly @#$$%&% killed me!!! I actually had to walk most of the way up and so many were passing me. Anyone tried it?? It is rather steep. I'm wondering why I don't seem to be getting any better at the hills. Is it my size? smaller lung capacity? need to get fitter? legs need strengthening? the bike? my technique? all of the above? Any ideas or suggestions welcomed.
Regards, Sam

Dini77

Sam, there's not 1 person out there who hasn't been in this situation at some time . Hills hurt and they sort out the strong from the weak - at all levels.

I think anyone can turn themselves into better climbers - but it requires the right type of training, committment, time and yes, much pain to get there. Actually, your size/weight gives you a huge advantage on the hills - given you're relatively new to cycling though it's goign to take some time and some specific hill training. BUT (and this is critical) this should only be done after you've built a sufficiently good base level of fitness/condition. Have a chat to a coach to get a training program set-up for you or speak to one of your more experienced riding buddies. I'd prefer the coach approach as a good coach will guide you through a whole program and tailor to your goals in a structured way. Given your level, it's probably not just hill training you need. Hope this helps

Jono L

My basic principal, ride heaps, dont stop. No excuses. But make sure you always have fun, and it is soooo much fun flying past people uphill knowing you've worked hard to get there.

__________________
Classic1-
Don't get me started on triathletes. Sluggo wearing, mechanically inept, dirty, dribbling, elbow steering spawn of Satan. Anyone who sticks food to their bike is a disgrace IMHO.

emvee

Once you gain fitness, with your weight you won't have a problem going up the hills. It's coming DOWN the hills that's the problem when you're light!!! (Tuck a brick into your jersey before you descend....)

jur

The most fundamental thing you need is to increase your fitness. I can't emphasise this enough. There are 2 types of cyclist, sprinters and climbers. Sprinters are analogous to the 100m dash, you put out a very large effort for a short time. Climbers are much like long distance athletes, they put out a much lower effort BUT FOR A LONG TIME. This is what you'll need to do.

The way to get this is to practise riding up long hills:

1. Find yourself a nice hill not with a steep incline and ride up this hill. It helps to have a hill that lets you climb for at least 15 minutes continuously.

2. Ride up. Pace yourself so you don't kill yourself. Use as low gear as necessary, don't let your cadence be too low, say 60rpm or faster. If you have a heart rate monitor, great. Get your HR up to say 140bpm and KEEP IT THERE. Don't let it go up or down. Don't stress yourself, nice and easy.

3. Do this 2 days, then rest a day. 30 minutes a day is just fine.

4. Very quickly, you will find that to keep your heart rate at that level, you will be riding faster and faster as your fitness increases.

4. Time yourself doing your fitness run, and be patient. The cardiovascular system builds up over several weeks. Don't stress yourself, you can't rush this.

5. For now, ignore any advice about "hill climbing technique". Most of that is just refining applicable to racing. The fundamental thing is fitness. Since cycling is an activity that goes on for a long time, endurance is what you need, ie fitness.

samcrx3

Thanks so much for your ideas. There are heaps of hills around here since Bathurst is in a bit of valley. I'm not into racing, just want to get fit enough to stay up with the others. The biggest problem I'm finding is that everyone is telling me something different, which is confusing me. Some are saying to get in a low gear and spin up the hill, and others are saying to get up a good speed and then mash up the hill. I have heard that riding out of the seat uses more energy than sitting to ride. Also I don't thing my legs are strong enough yet to pull up very well when pedalling - I am starting to do that a bit, but one leg seems to have a stronger pull than the other. I'm reasonably motivated enough to go for a bike rides by myself during the week, but would be nice to go with someone to encourage me a bit.
Regards, Sam

artemidorus

Riding out of the saddle is less efficient than sitting and spinning but it spares your knees when you run out of low gears and your cadence drops painfully low. Everyone needs to do it at some stage, it's just the steepness of the grade that varies with training and the individual.

Dini77

Sam, to avoid conflicting messages, IMHO the most effective utilisation of your time and effort is acheived through finding a good coach or an experienced bike rider you know who can point you in the right direction. Also, have a look at some of the other forums - particularly Cycling Training - where there is an exact thread relating to hill climbing and training for it. Some of the guys on that forum are very experienced riders/coaches.

The general consensus currently is that spinning is the way to get up hills faster - all the best climbers currently do this. But you need to find the right/optimal cadence for yourself - this requires trying a few different approaches. Given your size, experience, etc, I'd say that spinning would be the way to go for you up hills - i certainly don't recommend 'mashing' big gears. You will kill yourself doing this and not be able to sustain this effort for long at all. Maintain a steady pace, and aim to keep cadence 75rpm+ (the better you get, the faster you'll be able to spin. I climb best around 90-93rpm). Also have a look at your gearing and maybe look to get some more 'granny' gears on your bike (maybe a 25, 27 tooth) - this will help to spin and not tax your muscles as much. Standing does require more energy expenditure as there are more muscles involved when doing this - try to stay seated for most of the time and intermittantly stand to break it up a bit.

I'd still recommend finding a coach for you to teach you the basics on technique, write a good program to build your base, fitness and strength. Good advice from the right people will save a lot of time.

HTH
cheers

jur

Look, a coach is not a bad idea specifically, but bear in mind the needs stated in the OP. She's not after racing/winning and that sort of stuff, just would like to keep up with friends in the group. Coaches cost money, you know.

What's more, the mashing/spinning issue, while not incorrect, is not the most important issue - it was, is and always will be fitness - the ability to put out a certain level of power for a sustained amount of time. The optimum cadence has far less importance - the rider will find her own optimum quickly enough as long as she is not mashing slowly or spinning rapidly.

Dini77

Firstly, i never said that the OP use a coach to get into racing. Coaches can be used for all purposes - general fitness, technique, certain goals (eg 180km rides, etc), not just racing. Coaches also ask up front exactly what a person's goals are and tailor programs accordingly - u can hire one pretty cheaply to write a 3 month training program for you. After that, you should be free to part ways (it's just to get started). Yes they do cost some $, but that's why i also said to seek out a known experienced rider to point in the right direction if the coach option is not on the table

Your point re: fitness is right (see my original response in bold type), but i have to disagree with your comment about disregarding hill climbing technique. Tehnique is critical to all aspects of bike riding as it directly translates into more efficient use of energy - racing, recreation, whatever. All i pointed out was a path to get OP to her goals with as little conflicting messages as possible - either coach or an experienced friend. It's amazing how many people you see out there who have crap technique, push too big gears, wrong bike set-up but who all think they're doing the right things. How do you know unless someone tells/helps you???

Last comment on this from me - seek good advice, improve base fitness, improve technique, practice hills, stick at it, you'll improve.

robalert

I think hills generally are not enjoyable except for the feeling of conquering it and beating other people up there...

I am generally quite demotivated in climbing when I am by myself...

But the truth is simply practice, as with any sport. I still don't like hills but don't hate them as much as before.

Have you chatted with the organisers in your BUG about the issue of struggling up hills...? A good ride leader/group of cyclist should help you out a bit. Most common prob with begineers is that your seat may be too low. Otherwise, it is most likely to be cycling specific fitness and technique.

There is alot of arguments for and against climbing seated or standing. I find a bit of alternating helps some muscles recover. You just have to do both properly, ie, still pace yourself when standing. Two things I learnt which was very simple, was the importance of keeping your upper body straight (don't slouch) because it means you draw less air into your lungs AND focus on exhaling so that keeps you breaths deeps when climbing.... Also, keep your body as relaxed as possible focussing not on the hill but your pedal strokes.

Just my 2cents worth from a rookie...

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jur

Sorry, I was not picking a fight sincere apologies for any offense. Your post did have the important bold statement, my bad.

But perhaps we can continue a bit of discussion re hill climbing technique?

I once asked a question very related to this in bikeforums some time ago, asking among other things, specifically what hill climbing techniques might be. To put it mildly, the answers were very vague. Lots of cyclists tout this phrase, but don't have the next clue what it actually is.

Eg, I asked if I had an identical twin with identical fitness as me, but in addition had learned hill climbing technique, how would he beat me? This question went essentially unanswered.

Eventually I discovered that there is no well-defined technique except perhaps to practice muscles that are used while climbing steep slopes, and to pedal as smoothly as possible around the stroke, applying equal power at every point in the spin. But for climbing milder slopes, say 5%, no extra technique is needed that you wouldn't already be using on the flats. And for this reason a lot of these is just confusing the OP - it tends to bring one under the impression that there is some magic technique that will dramatically make you fly up slopes, and this is not the case. Without fitness, you can spin or mash using perfect technique till you're blue in the face, you'll still get dropped.

Eden

Hi,
Last year I was in nearly your same situation - I generally did not have to walk, but I was among the slowest climbers. Over this year I've improved my hillclimbing a huge amount. I took 40min off of my time from last year up the Mt. Baker Hillclimb (24.5 miles 4300ft of climbing). I'm 33, 5ft even (152cm) and I weigh about 104lbs (47kg) . I ride a 43cm Fuji Provence (WSD). The biggest changes I've made are getting a new bike that is lighter and fits better, losing weight - down from about 117 (53kg) and riding a lot - especially hills. My bike fitting properly has made a huge difference. My old bike was heavy and too long - I was putting a lot of energy into the handlebars that I can now put into the pedals. Your bike seems like it should be a good size for you, but getting a good bike fitting may be worth it. The second thing I did was lose some weight - the less you have to take up the hill the easier it is. Maybe not nice to hear, but it does make a big difference. The weight loss mostly came from increased riding (5 to 6 days/ week), which has also strengthened my legs quite a bit. I did find one legged pedaling (just as it sounds - clip in only one foot) on a trainer to be very helpful for not only learning use a complete pedal stroke, but to build the muscles that are used to pull up on the pedals as well. You can do this on the road, but I would not recommend trying it on a non-stationary bicycle for the first time. I agree with you, I do find that I don't have a very large lung capacity and my breathing can be rapid and heavy at times, but increased training is helping there too - especially riding with people who push me hard.
That all said it really depends on your goals and how much time and effort you have to dedicate. I have plans to race next season with an emphasis on climbing so I have been working on it a lot. If you just ride recreationally it may not be reasonable to expect to put in the time and effort it takes to be a good climber. Oh- and don't compare yourself to men. As a woman I have become a pretty good climber - I entered a hillclimb TT this year and came in 6th in my category, but if I was being compared to the guys I would have been pretty low on the list.
I'm sure none of this is any revelation, but hopefully it is helpful.

geoffs

My better half is 5'3" and 51kg and while she spends a lot of the time on the back of our tandem, she has ben improving her fitness alot over the past year. I have always told her that it's great to love climbing hills as if you are ok with the hardest parts then everything else is easy. We were cycling in France for 5 weeks and there are lots of hills that we ended up climbing. The choice was always; flat - river valleys, no view and boring or
the hilly route - spectacular scenery, facinating hilltop castles and villages.
When faced with hills that are really long, a low gear and spinning is the only way to go.
A heart rate monitor can be a huge help. I have always been happy (most of the time with what ever effort my stoker has provided however as she was wanting to get fitter, I bought her a HRM. First time she used it, apparently the HRM wasn't working as it only went to 104bpm. Mmmmmm. I tried it to test it and worked fine for me registering about 150bpm. Marian teried again and this time I unclipped so she was pedaling the tandem by herself. All of a sudden the hrm was reading 140. So even though she thought she was pushing hard, (and I wasn't going to say any different) she didn't realise the amount of effort required.
Now I am having to say, "ease up abit". It's like have rocket assist at the back.
Some training tips:
have goals/a goal and stick to it.
Make it fun and build in rewards for your self.
Measure your training in time rather than distance. ( so many minutes so many times a week adds up to x hours a week.
A coach or a decent book can be a big help. http://www.roadbikerider.com has heaps of tips and good advice.
Rest - don't over train. rest is good. Listen to your body. Even better take your pulse when you first wake up. If it is higher than normal - rest.
Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is rest and periodisation.
Periodisation is breaking up your traing into cycles. what you do one week increase by say 5% a week per week for 3 weeks then have an easy week.
Then sart at where you were on the second week and build on that for the next 3 weeks and repeat.

Happy cycling.

Geoff