Power numbers by racing category

wattsup?

I found some really interesting numbers posted by Dario Frederick who, among other things, has written for VeloNews and cyclingnews.com. This particular info should be credited to cyclingnews.com. I found it on nyvelocity.com, which actually has some really interesting stuff on it, particularly in some of the rider's journals with respect to training with power. I copy and paste with due credit:

Maximal steady state (MSS) power to weight ratios for men's road cycling categories to be competitive in sustained climbing situations (>10min)*:

Cat 5: 3.0 - 3.4
Cat 4: 3.5 - 3.8
Cat 3: 3.9 - 4.3
Cat 2: 4.4 - 4.8
Cat 1: 4.9 - 5.3
Pro National-level: 5.3 - 5.8
Pro World Class: 5.9 - 7.0
*Values expressed in Watts per kilogram of body weight)

Here is the link to the original post if anyone is interested in further great reading:

http://www.nyvelocity.com/content.php?id=88
http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/...ters09-06#Power


Cheers,

Ethan

the holster

those seem far to low.

whoawhoa

Agreed. Extend that out to an hour or so and it would be more realistic.

wattsup?

According to the article, these numbers are taken from actual racing power profiles of hundreds of riders in actual races. I think it is an interesting comparison to Coggan's power profiling chart in that these tests naturally take into account the context of a race environment as opposed to simply a dedicated, all-out effort for a specified period of time.

To illustrate my point: If a rider were to warm up, do a long, hard climb of >10 minutes, and then go home, his power number is likely much higher than that of the same rider on that same long, hard climb on the 3rd lap of a road race after numerous short, intense efforts, perhaps after a breakaway, and perhaps after helping to chase to bridge back to a break, to name a few very common scenarios. And these don't take into account factors such as nerves, energy conservation, on-the-bike nutrition, etc. that are all considerable in a race scenario.

Unfortunately, climbs of >10 minutes in races here in the states are pretty rare. I'll be doing Boulevard RR in San Diego in February as a Cat IV, and I believe there is 3K feet of climbing for 2 laps, and I'll be using my PT to measure the festivities. I've heard there are a lot of short rollers and stairstep climbs, so it will be difficult to draw a solid comparision, but the numbers should be interesting nonetheless.

I checked out the available sample files on the CyclingPeaks website, and none of the climbs were >10 minutes, but the AP for each were all >400w. But, as we all know, 400w for 3.5 minutes is vastly different than 400w for 20 minutes.

What'll be cool is as training with power becomes more mainstream, the pool of data from which we can draw will increase and the information available will be much more accurate, along with having better power meters with increased functionality to which RDO has eluded. Of course, as more riders train with power, those numbers will also go up as the effectiveness and efficiency of training with power makes us all stronger riders.

The article also talks about the fact that these are merely numbers, and that there are really strong riders by the numbers who fail to do well in races, and conversely riders with less w/kg that are successful. Just because a rider is strong doesn't mean he/she can make it to the podium. I know I've learned a great deal about racing in the short time I've been doing it, and I can only imagine the vast amounts I still have to learn.

Besides all of that, I like these numbers because they make me look good relative to my category...

Cheers,

Ethan

joule

I have to agree that these are too low. My only guess is that the watts being measured are using an SRM verses a PowerTap. I've read the readings between the two are different due to the wattage being monitored at different sources (cranks vs hub). I'm a lowly cat 5, soon to be cat 4 and I commonly average 4.0 w/kg on my 60 - 120 minute training rides. From competitions, I'm a pretty good cat 5 but I'm certainly no cat 3 (based on the numbers presented).

beerco

Dude, if you can't win cat 3 races with a threshold of 4 w/kg, fitness isn't your problem.

Squint

I've always read that article as being 30 min power even though it says >10 and 10 vs. 30 min power is going to be quite different. It does say that the data is gleaned from both testing and racing.

I live close to a long and popular climb in CO and judging from their speeds, I think very few people are climbing at more than 4 W/kg. This is quite a contrast from the Internet where everyone's FTP is 5-5.5 W/kg.

peterpen

While I also agree these seem a bit low, being able to sustain 4 w/kg should do you fine into the 3's. I see virtually no difference between cat 4 and 5 - just 10 mass starts - and very little between 4 and 3 - chiefly positioning and sprinting knowledge. Look at times for TT's and hill climbs - quite often the top 10 in cat 4 are roughly equal to those in the 3's. Sometimes in mass start hill climbs they're even faster - because the 3's will actually engage in tactics. The biggest difference with the 3's is that it is much harder to upgrade to cat 2 (and many don't ever want to) which means the talent pool is deeper.

caveat: this is the opinion of a cat 4 who just started racing last year. The rest of my team are 3's and I have no problems training with them or finishing with them in hilly twilights races we do together.

I look at w/kg numbers as reducing my excuses for not doing well - with a 4 w/kg ratio there's no reason why I can't make the selection in any Cat 4 RR with a few hills. If I don't, I'm doing something else wrong. But while W/kg numbers are great for setting training goals, it's what individuals do with those numbers that gets them results. Unless you're a Justin England, who comes late into the sport with incredible fitness and ability, you won't just ride your way to cat 1 based on w/kg. And even England would get caught in crits!

Smartt/RST

In "defense" of my local comrade...Dario defines MSS as a power output that can be sustained for >30min, so I would say that the article is a typo.
I think you will find that the numbers make a lot more sense that way and are very similar to Coggan's and RST's data as well.

__________________
Smartty

RapDaddyo

Obviously, there are going to be large regional differences, but the numbers look like to me about what I would expect in my region for FTs by cat. Anyway, some day we'll have a large number of actual PM ride files to peruse for important races, by cat. It would be interesting to see not only the total ride NP but also the short-term NPs at key points in a race (e.g., climbs).

mises

Since it's from race data are they using total bike/rider/clothes/bottles, etc. kg or just the rider kg? That would dilute the watts/kg quite a bit.

joule

Well I've only done 9 mass start races and admit to not knowning a lot about tactics. I do know that when training with a couple of cat 3 guys they pretty much eat me alive. I can keep up, but they do the pulls ... I can just barely hang on. But I enjoy riding with people better than me as it give me more motivation to push the limit, more than I would have done solo or with some lesser riders. I guess this year will be an education for me since I expect to advance to cat 4 early in the season.

BlueJersey

Couple of things are misleading here. Power to ratio maybe relevant on a hilly course. Who do we skinny dudes kidding about? A 130lb rider with 4.4w/kg just can't ride as fast as a heavier rider with the same power to weight ratio. On a flatter course, the lighter rider just can't win the race by his or her power to weight ratio alone. I think the chart is pointless though.

joule

And that's the rub... I weigh in at 130 lbs and probably on a good day do 4.2 w/kg for a 40k time trial. While I can hold onto (just barely) some cat 3 guys on some pretty tough climbs, I cannot compete otherwise. I've done a few training rides with them and I'm sure they could drop me anytime they wanted to outside a climbing area. When they are in the mood and do some hard pulls on the flats, I do my absolute best just to stay on their wheel.