Endurance Requirement for a Kilo racer?

SolarEnergy

Hi,

For a Kilo specialist, what would be the % of total training time spent doing endurance work?

I would expect this % to be fairly high during the general preparation phase. And as the season moves toward specific preparation, I'd expect that endurance base to be put on a "maintenance" protocol. Is this how you guys train?

Thanks

Woofer

As with all things, this depends on the specialist.

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-225818-15-2.html

Woofer

Listen to the audio.

N=1, 2004 US National Elite champion, Masters world champion
3 hour rides rarely, most rides under 90 minutes.
Does 2 or 3 kilometer time trials a year *total* so he only does them in competition.

http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/fra...uist/index1.htm

Billsworld

That is a great interview. I found it interesting how he divided his workload from stading starts/gym/high cadence roller training. I cant understand the reason for being able to do 180 rpm for 45 seconds on unloaded rollers. I wonder if it is to teach the legs to fire fast, or just to deal with the pain?

Woofer

My WAG is it's an overspeed drill and a technique drill since he doesn't have regular access to a velodrome due to limited training time. During the real event, one has to average over 145 rpm to get close to one minute with the gears that are typically being used at the elite level.

fergie

I wouldn't suggest that one does any Kilos out of competition anyway. Break the event into it's components and train each in turn.

The current argument is whether to start from a endurance perspective (ride fast for 65sec and then try and raise the speed over the training period) or from a speed perspective (ride to 40mph over the training period try to hold this speed for longer).

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

Billsworld

Wouldnt that be a matter of personal strengths ?

fergie

Scammed some SRM data from the current NZ record holder (1.04 on 250m outdoor concrete track). His max power for the Kilo was no where near his absolute max power. I take it this means he paced himself for the effort. Same for pursuiting (he also holds 4K record 4.31).

Over the last seven years he has been committed to a US based Pro team so a large amount of the year is devoted to building his aerobic capacity and even through our track Nationals and Oceania Games was doing numerous 4-6 hour rides while recording 1.05 for the Kilo and 4.49 for 4000m.

While this rider is unlikely to approach 1.00-1.01 in competition it does show that one can get close by adopting the endurance and build speed approach.

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

Woofer

Purely being the devils advocate here:
It could also mean it wasn't his best effort and we don't know if he has ever tried to do it any other way.
edit: I am looking at the example SRM kilo file, assuming it's real, and the rider weighs over 75kg, for a time of about 1:02 so possibly podium class at an indoor velodrome, the peak w/kg is way less than the high world class 5s average. Assuming a lot here, but it is often easier to record a higher peak in a lower gear for a given speed, and they are using pretty big gears at the elite level.

fergie

Well I could ask him if you like.

And if a sub 1.05 Kilo on a outdoor concrete track is not his best ride then I can't wait till see when he does put in some effort

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

Billsworld

Not debating with you....maybe this an oversimplification of the kilo, but it is sort of like the 400 in track n field. There are both 200 meter guys, 400 specialists, and 800 guys that run it. The 200 and 800 guys have little in common as far as training, but may end up with similar times. It appears that a guy like chris hoy who can kilo and sprint well would be more like the 200 meter guy crossing over than the roadie doing the kilo. I would love to see his SRM file though. Warren and I were discussing this before and he feels as you do that everyone has a different way of getting to the end the fastest. Woofer referenced the Antoin Quist interveiw where he discussed his training methods. He seems to do few long rides and works mostly starts, VERY high cadence work and the gym. I think his best time is 104 as a master. Howd you people do at your nationals?

acoggan

Not to try to throw a monkey wrench in the works, but as I mentioned off-list I think there's something wrong with the max/5 s data you have for him. I'd therefore be hesistant to definitively conclude that he must have paced himself.

fergie

Yeah I suspect that max power is way too high from his max mean power in Cycling Peaks. He thinks it should be higher (bloody Pros and their egos ). Even still his starting power was around 1500watts which seems low when many people here have 5sec powers around that level and he starts pursuits at 1050watts. But then Boardman's peak power in a Wingate was less than 1000watts. He is a very good sprinter and is being chased by our sprint coach for the Team Sprint but is also a very handy Road Rider (3rd last year at Road Nats).

May also have something to do with how often his SRM is recording data. I would assume as it is his own unit he can do this daily and have it set at 1sec intervals.

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

WarrenG

I'm not sure if you're interested in learning more about this one guy's approach or one that might work best for yourself, or somebody you're trying to help...

I see people do the first 50-100 meters at absolute maximum effort to get up to some speed and then hold back a bit as they ramp up to their max speed for the event, which is often not going to be the fastest speed they could get up to.

As the first guy in the team sprint there is no holding back at all, at any point. It's just go as hard as you can and get to as high a speed as you can, then hold on until it's time to get out of the way. IME, using this approach for a kilo will result in a slower time. If you're a world-class elite then you'd tend to aim at a target closer to the highest speed you could and then hold on the best you can.