Cyclone Larry aftermath

stevebaby

Cyclone Larry recently hit NE Australia causing widespread damage to infrastructure and crops,power failures and flooding.The cleanup has already started and the state and federal governments have pledged aid to the victims,but it may take some time to fully recover.
Was there widespread looting? No,some alcohol was stolen from a pub.
Were there armed troops patrolling the streets?No,the army is experienced in disaster relief and is assisting in the cleanup.
Was anyone murdered or raped or robbed as a result? No.
Was anyone threatened with a firearm at all? No.
Were any robbers or rapists shot by householders in self-defence? No.
Were any robbers or rapists threatened by householders in self-defence? No.
Did the police shoot or threaten any criminals? No,they are busy cleaning up and helping people.
What a difference .

Ps England has had its share of devastating weather too.See post 13 on the link.. http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=187881
Cyclone Larry - Mac Forums

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Hypnospin

i hope the best for the victim response and recovery efforts.

must set you straight re the list here, understand there was a lot of sensationalist news in the katrina/rita aftermath, by and large the stories of serious criminal involvement of the residents was far overblown by the media, whilst at the same time the mistreatment of the residents by the police, military and recovery effort crews was downplayed, as was the inadequecy of the efforts funded for recovery.

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"The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so must we think anew and act anew"
Abraham Lincoln, in his address to congress dec. 1st, 1861

stevebaby

That's pretty much what I figured had happened.There are enough threats to our safety from nature and we sure don't need to invent any from each other.
Larry,Katrina,the asian Tsunami and all the other natural disasters from around the world...people are people wherever they are and they come together to help each other.It's a natural human instinct...we're herd animals and we band together for the good of the herd.Disasters like these bring out the best in us all,but it's not newsworthy.

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Hypnospin

there was also, in the case of the recent us disasters, the need of the commercial media to minimize and divert public attention, and deflect focus from the ineptness what was offered by the the gov't in times of crisis of it's own people at home in their country.

but yes, we pull together in these times idealy, too bad it often takes a shock like these to bring out this human instinct of caring.

__________________
"The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so must we think anew and act anew"
Abraham Lincoln, in his address to congress dec. 1st, 1861

roadhog

Without knowing exact details of the recent damage in Australia, I would guess it tould be tough to compare the two incidents (New Orleans vs. Australia) and the aftermath. New Orleans is a densely populated area that was literally under water for quite some time. I'm guessing the Australia damage is more similar to the damage experienced from Katrina outside of New Orleans proper, like in the Mississippi coastal area. Of course all the indents were tragic, but you also didn't see any of the things you mention in the aftermath of Katrina on the Mississippi coast. Entirely different circumstances.

stevebaby

I wrote that to draw out a predictable response and I got exactly the response that I hoped for...
Thank you..that was too easy.
I don't think my country is the best.The people affected by Cyclone Larry behaved pretty much the way the people of every other country do when faced with natural disaster.There were a few aussies in New Orleans when Katrina hit.When they arrived back in oz they were interviewed and asked about the looting,murders,rapes etc and their answer was.."Wildly exaggerated".People just started putting their lives back together,as they do everywhere in that situation,but that sort of story isn't newsworthy.
Perhaps it's more a comment on the differences of the news media than the people.
Actually the title of "the original penal colony" goes to the us.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_colony
Penal colony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediahttp://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/convicts/
Convicts and the European settlement of Australia - Stories from Australia's Culture and Recreation Portal
Australia ceased to be a penal colony in 1868.
The us has a much higher percentage of its citizens in prison than australia,in fact the highest percentage of any country.There's something else to boast about.
It was an australian,Dr Howard Florey,who turned penicillin from an interesting observation by Alexander Fleming into a lifesaving drug,and while the moon landing was a remarkable achievement,how many lives did it save?

Australia is hardly a third world country.In most lists of quality of life ,oz usually is ahead of the us,in part due to the high quality of medical care available to every citizen.Norway usually beats everybody on that score though.
Most of the american tourists who come here say that oz is "just like america...without the ghettoes,the crime rate and the poverty."After the World Trade Centre was attacked many americans emigrated to oz (and New Zealand).

NEEEEXT!

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stevebaby

China has more prisoners in terms of numbers,but china also has the largest population.Per capita (percentage,which is what I actually wrote) the us has the highest rate of imprisonment in the world.
Check
your facts!
http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censu...aaprisonpop.htm
US Prison Population Tops 2 Million
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/r188.pdf
World Prison Population List (fourth edition)http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/international/wpl.html
World Prison Population List [Statistics]
Australia has a pretty average level of crime,comparable to other western countries.Any australian can confirm what american visitors tell us.
Where are the ghettoes in australia?
Name a few...

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Hypnospin

s-babe, you risk endangering your credibility and being perceived as a bit of a instigator for the sake of itself (not that that is always a bad thing, and i must confess to putting myself in this postion "a time or two")

but when it comes to the plight of the indigenous people of australia, and the relative state of their dwellings, unless one in in some serious denial, the term "ghetto" is wholely applicable in this case.

and visitors, as tourists, so seldom see the gritty armpit of any given region, that is, unless i take 'em round on a bit of a crawl...

__________________
"The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so must we think anew and act anew"
Abraham Lincoln, in his address to congress dec. 1st, 1861

stevebaby

If you want to criticise australia,you could start with the disgraceful way that both sides of politics in australia sided with indonesia on the east timor issue and ignored the plight of a people,40000 or so of whom were executed in reprisal by the japanese in WWll for sheltering australian commandoes.It was only after a fair bit of pressure from the australian people that the government acted to send in peace-keeping troops.The troops did a pretty good job of restoring order,protecting the east timorese from indonesian militias,providing aid and ensuring a peaceful transition to independence.The army can claim all the credit for that,not the australian politicians who promptly tried to screw one of the newest,poorest and smallest countries in the region over oil and natural gas rights.
I'll target for criticism any country in the world including my own and if you or any other american thinks my criticism of the us is disproportionate,perhaps you should try a different perspective of the world.Many americans act as though the us is the world (how many countries play in the World Series in baseball?) and speaking generally,don't seem to have much knowledge of other countries.Most of the members of the soapbox for sure and the forum generally have travelled widely (including some of the american members)and will pick up on any bullshit.
(...and some won't,and some will spread a bit of it around...LOL)
Anyone can do some research before they leap to the keyboard and start pounding away.Being provocative is enjoyable for the competitive aspect of the ensuing debate but it sometimes forces people to learn and re-evaluate their prejudices and perhaps adopt a healthier attitude to their fellow human,for the good of the greater number.If anyone wants to jump into a debate or an argument or a discussion (and threads in this sub-forum are usually a combination of all of these),without preparation or prior knowledge...be prepared for the fur and feathers to start flying.

Don't bring a knife to a gun-fight (speaking metaphorically,of course)...as the well known scotsman said.
None of us had any say about which country we were born in and few of us can choose which country we live in.The attitude that "my country is the best" is illogical and dangerous and the sooner everybody in the world grows up and realises that we are citizens of the world before we are citizens a geographical area bordered by arbitrary lines,the better off we will all be.

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bastard

Hypnospin

funny you should mention baseball in your diatribe,
in a qoute attributed to babe ruth, he was asked his view on his being paid more than the president of the united states.
his reply;
"yeah, but can the president of the united states hit a baseball?"

fact in point, the baseball in the us is comprised of many international players.

only one of many attributes of the oppurtunities the us offers without predjudice.

[QUOTE=stevebaby]you should try a different perspective of the world.Many americans act as though the us is the world (how many countries play in the World Series in baseball?)

__________________
"The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so must we think anew and act anew"
Abraham Lincoln, in his address to congress dec. 1st, 1861

stevebaby

It would be absurd to deny that many indigenous australians live in poverty,but they are a very small minority in their own country.An even smaller minority try to retain some aspects of their traditional lifestyle...they were hunter-gatherers with little need for possessions or permanent dwellings and what looks like material poverty to westerners is often just a different way of life.Some of the aborigines living that way are among the happiest people anywhere,with a rich and complex culture and a great sense of belonging to the land rather than owning it.I know that there are other forum members who have had the opportunity to live and work with them and who will agree.
Most are caught between two conflicting cultures and suffer similar problems to other indigenous peoples,with alcohol abuse and in australia,petrol sniffing...discrimination,denied opportunities etc., but "ghettoes",no,not in the normal sense of the word.The most dangerous place that I've been to in australia is the main street of Sydney on a saturday night,and I've lived and worked in or visited every state,every major city and many of the larger towns.
The referendum to finally give citizenship rights to aborigines in 1967 was supported by the highest vote in australian history,and the recent reconciliation march was one of ,if not the biggest demonstrations in our history.
It's a valid criticism,and if more people from outside australia criticised our government's truly appalling record then the lot of the aborigines might improve.Australian governments are often more sensitive to outside opinions than they are to those of their own citizens.
Just like everywhere else,our government often gets it wrong.I'll never defend them when they do.My country,right or wrong? Bullshit.

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bastard

stevebaby

Some of those players are australian,but they aren't representing australia and neither are the other international players.They all play for american teams.
At least in World Series Cricket,we let a few other countries try their luck...

Getting right off topic,just for the moment...
If you were born in New Zealand...and grew up to play rugby for NZ,became fabulously wealthy,became the Prime Minister of NZ,won a Nobel Prize,found the secret of world peace and discovered life on another planet,became the Secretary-General of the UN.....and you died.....what would the newspaper headlines in NZ say?



"FORMER ALL BLACK DIES..."

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stevebaby

No.If you visited you would very likely feel very much at home.Australia has a very similar standard of living to the US.As do most of the countries of Europe,with some minor differences.
I do not have a very high opinion of the media in the US.That said,sometimes it can be OK,but mostly it's insular and sensationalist.I get the PBS show "Newshour"on free to air,and it's a very high-quality and rigorously objective and even-handed news show.I now ignore most of the rest of the US media...likewise,I don't pay much attention to the much of the section of the australian media which chases ratings.
Fox news...you trust a media organisation owned by a conservative and very wealthy and cynical australian businessman who will exploit every prejudice in the book to make a buck?

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stevebaby

Isn't that just a curious thing,because I had to go to the us on business,twice...and I wouldn't go back unless I was paid a lot of money.
So who is envious?

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bastard