Today's Forum Topics
Set as homepage
|
View
New Forum Topics Today's Forum Topics Set as homepage |
 |
|
|||||||
Welcome to CyclingForums.com You are currently viewing our website as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions. You will have to register before you can post to this thread. By joining our free online community you will have access to post new topics, communicate privately with other cyclingforums.com members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos and access other special features like product reviews and classifieds. |
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
24-07.-2006, 08:05 PM
|
#1 |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 69
|
Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
Hi everyone.
Seriously, I am not trying to start a fired up debate here but recently I have had too many close calls not to ask the question. I love cycling and I try to do it as much as I can. However one thing I stay away from as much as I can are Sydney roads. Car drivers in Sydney (and I am sure you would all agree) are very impatient creatures. Many cyclists poses the point: The road is for us to share and all cyclist have equal rights to the road. Point taken and totally agree. Now (take a deep breath and lets be fair), How many of you have seen cyclists run red lights, not give way or stop in stop signs, and most of all... ride between lanes even when cars are moving. Just tonight, I nearly hit a cyclist (I was in my car in starting traffic @ about 10kph) who from no where swirved from my left lane into the front of my car and scared the sh%t out of my girlfriend and I. Note this is not the first time it has happened as I see cyclist violating road rules nearly every day. Not to mention cyclist who jump into pedestrian walkways when there is traffic, and without warning dart back onto open roads.  Lets face it. If these guys want to share the road, please follow the road rule!!! I really dont want to accidentally knock down a fellow cyclist when I am driving to and from work. Does anyone share the same view?  |
|
|
|
24-07.-2006, 10:11 PM
|
#2 |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
Posts: 48
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
Yes, I totally agree. We use the roads, as cyclists, we should obey the same road rules as every other road user. This way can expect and demand respect.
I have ridden in the Sydney CBD on a couple occasions, during holidays, and at various times of the day. I became part of the traffic and I had no problems with the traffic because most of it was moving slower than my comfortable commuting speed. In fact it is the only Australian City that I have felt safe being part of the traffic, just another vehicle. I have not ridden in the suburbs, so I can not comment on those parts of Sydney. The parts I have ridden are, out to Glebe, around the CBD, to the North Shore and out to Kingscross and Padington, and as I wrote I thoughly enjoyed my rides inand around the City. |
|
|
|
|
24-07.-2006, 10:21 PM
|
#3 |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Inner West
Posts: 175
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
i think there are four subgroups of cyclists on the roads
1. commuter/mtb safety gear medium to high mostly inocous speed : approx 17-30 kmh obeys most traffic rules less attactive of the species 2. commuter/road bike safety gear medium to high can be unnerving at high speeds but mostly friendly speed:25-45 kmh obeys the rules mostly slightly more or less attractive than above 3. punter / rusty old piece of shit safety gear = ????? mostly lame speed: 0-10 kmh who cares 4. road warrior/tdf timetrial bikes / magnesium mtb safety gear = piss off very unfriendly speed = figjam the best looking of the species with the most money and least brains this species is where i think youll find the most problems once again this is from observatin on my part iand im asking that we all take a chill im not lumping anyone in any sections but......................... most riders where i live fall into these four categories of course there are others but the tdf'ers are the risk takers while of course there will be others that mix between the categories i have found on my ride to work that these styles are the most prominent and i find that the fourth catergory arent to interested in the rules well you cant win em all |
|
|
|
|
24-07.-2006, 11:09 PM
|
#4 | |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ashfield, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,709
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
Quote:
Is this what you ment by speed = figjam |
|
|
|
|
|
25-07.-2006, 08:11 AM
|
#5 |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Inner West
Posts: 175
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
i was waiting for that
hahahahahh figjam no no i could never fit into the clothes they wear so it is with jealousy that i say figjam meaning any disrespect to these riders they are a breed all on there own. |
|
|
|
|
25-07.-2006, 09:38 AM
|
#6 |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 340
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
To judge bikes by the same standards as cars is silly- cars are big, wide, and can't perform u turns in 2 meters of pavement. Bikes are small and manouverable. What is unsafe to others in a car is perhaps only unsafe to the bike rider if they perform the same stunt.
On my commutes i do not care at all about the road rules but do show (some) respect for other road users. So i will run the red, but make sure i quickly slot into the oncoming traffic (say if turning right at a x intersection into my lane) and accelerate up to their speed so as to not disrupt the traffic flow. Also i will overtake on the outside/right hand lane or between cars but try and quickly settle into riding as fast as possible in the left hand lane. Bikes are different from cars- they shouldn't have to obey the same rules. bikes can weave between pedestrians, fit between 2 cars, do u turns in no space at all, etc. cars cannot. I have ridden for years with no respect for the law, including as a full time courier, and have never had an accident that was my fault. Cars actually become more predictable when you are more agressive. For example, if you dont overtake a parked car etc in a decisive move they will hesitate and then you have no idea what they are going to do next. |
|
|
|
|
25-07.-2006, 10:26 AM
|
#7 | |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ashfield, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,709
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
Quote:
BTW, you still haven't declared your category. |
|
|
|
|
|
25-07.-2006, 11:40 AM
|
#8 |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Inner West
Posts: 175
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
haah
yes i forgot i should have stated that im a full time commuter though lycra lizard yes that will do |
|
|
|
|
25-07.-2006, 12:59 PM
|
#9 | |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 494
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
Quote:
Regardless of how you *think* the law should or shouldn't apply, the fact is that bicycles are with few exceptions bound by the exact same laws as all other traffic users. I think your statement "I have ridden for years with no respect for the law, including as a full time courier" sums it up nicely. I don't expect anything better from yet another f*&$wit bicycle courier. You give the rest of us a bad name who do obey the traffic laws. --brett |
|
|
|
|
|
25-07.-2006, 01:58 PM
|
#10 | |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sydney - Australia
Posts: 105
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
Quote:
BIG THUMB UP!!! The road is there to share, not a battle field! If you wanna join the game, then the first principle is to obey the rules! That's how the respect building up between road user |
|
|
|
|
|
25-07.-2006, 02:12 PM
|
#11 |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Inner West
Posts: 175
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
http://www.amygillett.org.au/index.php?page=53
perfect response to this thread i know its posted by me but this works both in this thread adn my own thread |
|
|
|
|
25-07.-2006, 02:52 PM
|
#12 | |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 340
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
As far as i am concerned what is law is arbitrary, what matters is what is the right thing to do. Many actions by road users are strictly legal but insanely dangerous, others are illegal but quite safe.
The commuter who rolls through a red light is not the same as a hoon in a V8 riding through a school zone at 100 kmph. One is safe and convenient/practical, the other is unecessary and dangerous. The same concept applies,and is justified by the rest of our legal system. So paying workers stuff all and firing them at a moments notice might now be legal, but is it morally acceptable? At the same time abortions or taking recreational drugs might be technically illegal but these actions are generally tolerated by the more sane element of our society, and only a fuckwit would judge someone for these actions or claim that they are inherently evil because they are unlawful, or by the other side of the coin excuse bad behaviour that is legal. Now there is another side to the argument, which is to accept that, yes, cylist are not inherently dangerous, but that we should still respect the road rules so that we have a defence against car drivers that do break the road rules. This argument i actually have alot of sympathy for, but in my experience the law has never helped me out at all. And do you really think that your recourse to the law is damaged by my actions? Also, regarding bike couriers, how much more unsafe/ annoying would it be for an extra 400 cars to be darting around the CBD. Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
25-07.-2006, 03:36 PM
|
#13 | |||
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 494
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
Quote:
Both are illegal. You are confusing legality with the associated penalty. Clearly the penalties for each are different. Simply because you have within your own moral code made the decision that you fall outside particular laws, doesn't invalidate the laws, nor does it justify your actions outside of the law. If you chose to continue to live within a society with a particular set of laws you don't get to pick and chose which apply to you. I'd be betting if you were run down by the aforementioned V8 driving hoon you wouldn't be arguing your case in court and stating you believe the law is 'arbitrary'. I didn't claim you were evil. I said you were another fuckwit bicycle courier with no respect for the road rules (by your own admission) and by visibly breaking them give all cyclists a bad rap. The convenience you find in breaking the law, has repercussions outside of your little world which you miserably fail to understand. Quote:
No I don't think that your actions at all effect any recourse I might have within the judicial system. However, as a road user (cyclist), I believe your actions do effect me in terms of the way that I am treated on the road by other road users (vehicles). Quote:
Given I don't drive in the CBD I don't especially have an opinion. However a more accurate question might be, how much less annoying/unsafe would it be for me as a cyclist for bike couriers to simply obey the traffic laws in the course of their jobs? Well clearly I have an opinion on that. Like anyone who regularly breaks the law you attempting to justify the actions by essentially saying you've made a personal choice and no-one gets hurt. I hear the same from people I know who speed in their cars, or who recreationally indulge in 'party' drugs. These same people invariably after being caught whine about how unfair the 'system' is when they have knowingly ignored the law and are fined or lose their driving licenses etc. It's the attitude of riders like yourself that basically make a good argument for mandatory cyclist licensing. --brett |
|||
|
|
|
|
25-07.-2006, 03:53 PM
|
#14 | |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,179
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
Quote:
Your extreme reaction to 11ring's post has failed to acknowledge his clear respect for other motorists. His riding style sounds a little like mine, although I would never say that I have no respect for the law, rather that I consider the traffic regulations a guideline rather than an unbreakable code. Provided that everything one ever does on a bike is respectful of the sensibility and safety of other road users, I feel that judicious rule breaking is OK if one is certain that it is safe. For example, to queue at a red light at 1am on empty suburban streets is absurd. Certainly, there is a grey zone where a manoeuvre is probably, but not undeniably, safe and under such circumstances the respectful choice is to obey the rules - this is where some cyclists struggle with temptation, and others couldn't give a toss and do what they like. I see your point of view about maintaining a good reputation for cyclists - no doubt this is the source of your anger. Judicious rule breaking has to take this into account - if any move is going to make the cyclist look irresponsible, then it shouldn't be made. |
|
|
|
|
|
25-07.-2006, 03:57 PM
|
#15 | |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 340
|
Re: Sydney Cyclists Share the Road??
Yes, both are illegal but not equivelant. One is illegal but safe, the other is illegal and unsafe.
I can think of hundreds of examples of things which are technically legal but insanely dangerouse or reprehensible. How about selling and advertising cigarettes, or sending people to war, or at variose points in our and other peoples history killing them because of the colour of their skin. I never choose to abide by our legal ststem, it existed before me and i have never made any allegiance to obey it. But more to the point our laws, and those of different countries change because some laws are obeyed and others are not. Take the jailing of clarrie O Shea in 1969 for breaking anti-union laws. Thousands went on strike in support of this 'criminal' and the laws were made unworkable and then overturned. The law was bad, so it was peoples right and responsibility to break it. Now i have no illusions that i am changing our society by breaking the road rules, i know i can't change them but i have made the calculation that the world is a better place if this and other laws are broken. So i will keep breaking it. On a more seriouse note, I am probably breaking the law by saying "victory to Iraq" but it is the right thing to do so i will keep saying it as well. Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
Linear Mode
