U.K. Depends On U.S. Military

Carrera

O.K. a new thread to liven things up.
Are people aware the U.K. would be knackered over defence without the U.S. military which explains all these debates over foreign policy. How come we were left so far behind? In actual fact, in a sense, we couldn't go to war without permission from the U.S. Senate as we don't have the capacity. Comments?
Note:
http://www.acronym.org.uk/dd/dd76/76news04.htm
"The UK currently deploys the US nuclear weapon system, Trident, using British-made submarines and an ostensibly British-designed warhead. The UK Trident uses Trident II D5 missiles from the US missile pool, which are manufactured, tested and serviced in the United States. UK Trident submarines collect the missiles from the US Trident submarine base at Kings Bay, Georgia. The missiles are tested at the US missile test range off the coast of Florida. The UK Trident submarines are assigned to NATO and rely on US satellites for targeting."

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

Israel is also far more powerful than the United Kingdom which may explain why it's the U.S. main partner of consultation. Whereas Britain probably couldn't win a war against Iran without U.S. assistance (or defence) Israel is another matter.

"In 1986 descriptions and photographs of Israeli nuclear warheads were published in the London Sunday Times of a purported underground bomb factory. The photographs were taken by Mordechai Vanunu, a dismissed Israeli nuclear technician. His information led some experts to conclude that Israel had a stockpile of 100 to 200 nuclear devices at that time."

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Eldrack

Kinda sucks really. But since we lost the Empire GB has had no real reason to have a big military. All we do is peace-keeping/helping America out when it decides to invade somewhere. We have some of the best troops in the world but they aren't that great in number and horribly under resourced.

limerickman

Britain 100 years - even 200 years ago - required a vast military infrastructure in order to maintain it's empire.
But Britain back then was in a different position to the USA today - because back then you had several colonial powers trying to conquer more than their peers.
France and Germany (Prussia), Astro Hungary were all trying to acquire more and more territory.

So in historical terms, Britain today is nowhere near as dominant as it was back
in those times.
And that's not a bad thing.

Professor Niall Ferguson has calculated that 67 of the 68 empires in mankinds history have all fallen.
Ferguson says that the USA will follow the other 67 empires.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

darkboong

I've made this point before Crappy. My conclusion was : We shouldn't bother buying any more cracked up gear from the US. If we are going to have a Nuke deterrent it needs to be under *our* control, otherwise it isn't worth squat to us. Brown has indicated that he thinks we should fund the development of another US replacement to Trident, I can't see the point. It's new money for old rope.

__________________
Free Beer !

limerickman

Who controls Trident ?
Presumably Britain could use Trident without having to get the go ahead from the US?

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Don Shipp

If Israel did not have the capability of defeating any other Middle Eastern country, Israel would have ceased to exist long ago. But they could not have achieved this without assistance from the US, and indeed from the UK.

__________________
"Boudreaux pissed me off, what should I do?"
"Nothing, just shut up and take his advice."

RobertCZ

No doubt at that but it will not happen in most of our lifetimes.

Britain's took almost 200 years.

Carrera

That was what I was driving at, Lim. That was something I wasn't aware of myself. The U.K. has no nuclear capability without express permission from the White House. The Trident Missiles are actually controlled by America if I understand it correctly. A nuclear power we ain't.
That is why, despite all the wrangles and arguments, Blair has no option but to follow U.S. policy.
France, on the other hand, has its own nuclear capability, although it's not anything to do cartwheels over.
Israel, for that matter, does have its own nuclear capability and doesn't depend on the U.S. for the button option. I believe France collaborated with Israel and helped it get the bomb.

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

But conversely speaking.... Einstein was the brains behind nuclear energy. Without Einstein, the U.S. wouldn't be where it is today. Likewise, without Lenin and Trotsky, Russia would never have been a global power. Physicists such as Saharov borrowed a good deal from Einstein. As Einstein was the father of nuclear physics, Israel of all nations is entitled to its nuclear weapons.

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

But, Booger Boogkins........
That was my point. It ain't under our control. That's an astounding fact, as Britain once led the world in industry and economical power. We got left behind. They allowed all the brains in the country to go elsewhere and in the U.S. there was more money for science.

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

Limerickman, your bold coding ain't right, I don't think. You appear to have both tags closed when the first should be open? Let's see if this works or not:
<B>Writing in bold</B>

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

Hmmm, yet it works on notepad??

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

limerickman

I made not attempt to "bold" anything in message 4 (or anywhere else for that matter).

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.