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15-01.-2007, 02:50 PM
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#1 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 867
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Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
In June I will be travelling to France to ride a tour in the Alps. It's basically La Marmotte over 2 days (~200km including >4000m ascent). I'm a reasonable climber, but these climbs (particularly Galibier and Alpe d'Huez) will really challenge me
 . For geographical reasons, I won't be able to hit the hills until the last 6-8 weeks, so I'd like to maximise my time from now till then. What is the best "at home" training method to improve my ability to climb, without actually hitting the hills? Either on indoor trainer, or on flat/rolling terrain.If I can increase my watts/kg in certain types of intervals or tests, with that do?
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16-01.-2007, 12:59 AM
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#2 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 136
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Quote:
The L4 intervals, e.g. 2*20 min, will do it.
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These are layman's opinions, expressed in language no self-respecting scientist woul be using. |
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16-01.-2007, 01:43 AM
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#3 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 72
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Quote:
Yeah, I would do these on a trainer; you might put something under your front wheel in order to change the angle to more of a climbing position, too. You'll be working on your sustained power; I'm sure being in the mountains is a lot different than the rolling hills here, whereas you'll be going upward for 30-90 minutes at a time without much chance to recover [unless you stop to take a look around!]. So keep that in mind as well.  -Eric |
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16-01.-2007, 04:21 AM
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#4 |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,117
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Indoor trainer seems to be the best way to hold L4 for 20 minutes if you don't have a mountain near by. For some reason unless I am trying to break my 20 minute personal best average speed I always slide back to L3 when outside.
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16-01.-2007, 05:29 AM
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#5 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SCAL
Posts: 182
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Quote:
Don't underestimate the effect of reducing the KG part of that watts/kg ratio. Doing intervals from 80% - 105% of your 1 hour power and a 500 calorie per day defecit (that's 1 lb per week lost) should put you well on your way. |
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16-01.-2007, 07:42 AM
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#6 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney, AU
Posts: 2,122
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Quote:
As discussed on various web forums, this does not work, doesn't make any scientific sense.
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Morphed Bianchi Camaleonte IV 2006, Ridley Damocles 2006, Garmin, Mac 
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16-01.-2007, 08:18 AM
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#7 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 72
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Quote:
So you're saying you should ride in a position that's different than one you'd be riding up a mountain? I don't see how that makes much sense, either... -Eric |
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16-01.-2007, 08:33 AM
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#8 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney, AU
Posts: 2,122
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Quote:
Unless you are standing, in which case there may be a few degrees of difference in your joints. But when you sit on 3 point contact, your body geometry is no different whether you are climbing or riding on the flat. As for the perceived extra power required (by some), it just doesn't happen as you are static with an incline across the wheel base. And as other with indepth knowledge in sports sciences has stated, there's no appreciable advantage in training in that position.
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Last edited by sogood : 16-01.-2007 at 09:13 AM. |
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16-01.-2007, 09:06 AM
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#9 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 867
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Thanks for your help everyone.
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LOOK KG451, DT-Swiss, K-Force MegaExo |
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16-01.-2007, 10:45 AM
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#10 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 135
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Quote:
Berend |
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16-01.-2007, 11:54 PM
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#11 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 926
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Quote:
Have you tried it?
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rmur |
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17-01.-2007, 07:10 AM
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#12 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Huntsville, AL, USA
Posts: 654
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Quote:
Another point is to make sure you have low enough gears to allow you to maintain your best-power cadence when you're climbing, or conversely, make sure you train at the realistic cadences you'll be using on the mountains. You don't want to train long intervals to optimize power at 95 rpm seated, but then find on the actual grades you can only maintain 40 rpm by standing. |
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18-01.-2007, 08:36 AM
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#13 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 93
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
I'm in a similar position, we're training for the Pyrenees (Tourmalet, Aspin etc) in May but the hills around here are not steep enough or are too short to get a sense of what's requried. The best advice I've seen so far is that long climbs are like Time Trials, so to train for them do plenty of uninterrupted hard effort routes. Wind resistance helps too! I'm taking a 3 pronged approach: tough flat-out 40 milers; weight training to build power in the quads to improve power to weight ratio; and watching my diet to reduce overall body weight to reduce the payload. Hope it works. If not, I reserve the right to turn around!
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18-01.-2007, 08:38 AM
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#14 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 867
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Quote:
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18-01.-2007, 09:17 AM
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#15 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 135
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Re: Improving climbing, without actually climbing?
Quote:
I assure you, yes, I've tried it. As a matter of fact, in the two and a half years that I've owned a trainer, I've used it in three different "regimes." Initially, I used it in a "nose down" set-up because I was cheap and didn't buy the plastic "front wheel booster" and didn't bother even slipping a phone book or two under it. About six months or so in, mostly due to influence from a thread similar to this one and due to, well, some discomfort in male-specific anatomical areas from being in a nose-down position, I decided to give a shot to putting a couple of phone books under the front wheel to raise to a climbing angle. Things went on like that until one of the phone books got accidentally chucked out as trash, so for the last year or so I've been on a "level" configuration. I can say very easily that my best climbing performances on the road have come within the last year and correlates far more strongly with having the right kind of structured power-driven workouts (which I was doing before, too) than with the inclination of the bike "to simulate climbing." That is, of course, my own opinion, but I think there's evidence, both qualitative and quantitative (as I tried to present earlier) which argues that the specifity one needs to seek in training for climbing is more in the area of sustained power output and far less in climbing angle simulation. Berend |
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