Frustrated with FTP Progress

dkrenik

I fully realize that this is a "coaching question" and greatly appreciate any advice from the forum members.

After taking last year off, I began riding again ~November of last year. Over several weeks I raised my wattage on 2x20's from ~210W to 240W. I've been at ~240W now for the past 4 months or without much progress. I have noticed that my level 5 power is responds well to training (6x5 min at 290W presently).

I've tried blocks of level 5 work and when going back to level 4 - nothing has changed. I've tried blocks of SST without any changes in FTP.

Recommendations?

whoawhoa

How has your CTL changed over this period?

dkrenik

I just started training with a power meter in February (used speed as a proxy for power on my rollers before that). Given that, I'm not sure these numbers are relevant:
Feb 1: 12 (I manually entered some earlier workouts into WKO+ after estimating power given speed on my rollers)
Mar 22: 44
Present: 60

daveryanwyoming

My FTP has hit several short plateau's and then suddenly jumps a notch. You haven't given much insight into your typical training week, but with a CTL of 60 it sounds like you may be taking more off days than necessary.

One thing I've found useful when my FTP seems stalled is to work in some longer L3/SST rides. I don't know if it's mental or physical but I'll go out targeting 85% for an hour to an hour and a half per block in a longer 3 to 4 hour ride and typically find I start near 85% of FTP and tend to ramp it up as the long interval progresses. A couple days of these and I usually see a jump in my next pure L4 session. I don't know if it's the additional SST time or just the mental boost of going pretty hard for a longer interval and really enjoying it. But either way I've come to think of that along with some dedicated L5 training as my FTP teasers as they always seem to give me a few watts jump in my best 20 minute power and FTP.

I suspect you're going to see an FTP jump soon with the increases you're seeing in VO2 max power. Sometimes it's just a matter of patience or a matter of getting into a hard race or other situation that forces you to dig a bit deeper than daily training but it's hard to imagine you won't see some FTP improvement if your VO2 max keeps rising with L5 work.

Good luck,
Dave

dkrenik

Perhaps. My job requires travel. I was completely off the bike for ~8-9 days end of March/early April; more travel mid April; 2 multi-day trips in May and another coming up in June. Ughhhh

It looks like I average about 500-550 TSS/week (when I can train) with some weeks (like last week) over 700 TSS.


Thanks for the encouragement, it's much appreciated.

rayhuang

How are you testing? Maybe your ftp is going up, but your intensity of training leaves you too tired to put in a solid effort when you test for ftp?


I honestly could not find the motivation to do an hour test with meaningful data. But if you put me on the line for a 40k TT I gurantee you I will give 100%.

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dkrenik

Ehhhh, good question
I've a "lunch time loop" that has a section that takes me ~45 min's to complete at TT pace. If pressed I would say that my Pave has gone from ~235W to ~240W in the past few months (not significant I believe).

rmur17

nice reply. SST is the well I keep going back to when I lose momentum: either physical or mental.

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rmur

rmur17

Could you post the composition of a typical L4 week?

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rmur

dkrenik

Lets see, a typical week consists of:

• 
  Monday: Pilates Reformer class (lower back issues)
  Tuesday: SST - ~45 mins (of ~1:10) at 230W Pave/240 Pnorm (1.0+ IF)
  Wednesday: 2x20 at 230-240W Pave/Pnorm (1.0 IF); what I've been able to hold on 2x20's hasn't changed since early March
  Thursday: ~50 min L3
  Friday: EZ
  Saturday: 2-3 hours team ride .8-.9 IF
  Sunday: EZ

Mix in an occasional TT or circuit race on Sat or Sun. I've been considering doing more weekday evening club rides just to mix it up a bit.

Also, as of late, I've been doing more L5/VO2 work:

• 
  Monday: Same
  Tuesday: 6x5min at ~290W
  Wednesday: 4-5x5min @ ~290W
  Thursday: SST ride
  Friday: EZ
  Sat/Sun: Same

Appreciate your input.

rmur17

tight for time right now. Could you elaborate on the L4 Tuesday workout?

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rmur

dkrenik

Sure. It's a "lunchtime ride" of ~1:10. After warming up (~10 min's) I basically TT to a certain landmark that takes ~45-47 min's over rolling terrain. IF is 1.0 - 1.0+ (~230W Pave/~240W Pnorm). After that I take a little break and really "hit it" on a short hill coming back for 1 min (400W-450W) then take it easy the rest of the way home.

Many thanks,
Dave

rmur17

okay - IMHO I'd label that as a mid-L4 workouts rather than SST but perhaps I think of SST as slightly lower in intensity up to 0.95IF or so.

So in your 'L4 focus' weeks, I see two solid L4 sessions back to back followed by L3, then an easy day, then a typical Sat tempo-ish ride, with another light day to finish the week.

It doesn't sound unreasonable and neither does the L5 week where I assume the SST ride is actually mid-L4 again.

So we could be down to overall training load not being high enough. Plain ole CTL vs. historic norms is the big tell there. Or ... perhaps you're not working the L4 intervals hard enough? Or perhaps you're working them too hard?

If I were advising you on a coaching basis, I'd give no advice whatsover until I knew your background pretty well and where you have been or think you should be. Additional questions would be your weekly time constraints (job, family, etc). Further to the current specifics, I'd ask detailed questions about how you feel during and after each workout and prior to the following workout. Then there's diet, recent gain or loss in weight ...

In a nutshell, once the basics appear to be there, there are a lot of questions to ask in an effort to ascertain what the problem may be and how to tackle it.

I know that's not much help but perhaps it'll get you thinking about analyzing the issue and/or perhaps getting a coach.

Putting all that aside, if you not restricted on Sunday and everything else is 'okay', the first thing I would suggest is to get another solid workout in that day. After all, Monday is a rest day from cycling. Why take two in a row?
IME many people gravitate towards a 3-ON, 1-OFF/easy, 2-ON, 1-OFF/easy weekly schedule when trying to maximize their training. Not knowing anything else than your CTL is ~60, that's my best current suggestion.

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rmur

dkrenik

Actually, considering you're view on what constitutes SST work, you might consider what I call L3 as SST (High 3/Low 4)

I suppose training load could be higher. One of the things I've learned since picking up a PM is that I definitely wasn't training enough before a PM

The L4 intervals (2x20) are done on rollers. I've noticed that I can't hold the power on rollers that I can hold on the road (as discussed on other threads & forums). In short, I don't believe that I could do them any "harder". I truly struggle to finish the 2nd 20 min interval.


Understood

I feel fortunate that I can usually squeeze an hour to an hour and 15 min's into my work day for training. I've all the obligations that are typically associated with having pre-teen daughters (shuttle service for sports and music and such) so sometimes my weekend rides are solo instead of with the club.

Actually you've done plenty - thanks. I've been thinking plenty about getting a coach as I obviously can't figure this out myself.

Agreed. This sounds like the best place to start.

Many thanks