Alcohol prohibition for teenage Americans

Carrera

O.K., here are the facts. Anyone remotely offended by this, please just skip the post and chill. Anyone who wishes to read the case, please read on:
Elisa Kelly, a citizen of Virginia has been jailed for over 2 years. Her crime? Giving alcohol to some 16 year olds at a teen house party in her own home, the sort of thing that happens in France every day.
Here is the shocker: The mother was originally going to be jailed for 8 years but managed to get the sentence reduced.
Now, this piece of information needs to be digested. I mean, for all Bush's talk about human rights, could you imagine someone in Putin's Russia going to prison for allowing 16 year olds to drink alcohol at a home party? Or in China. for that matter?
The thing is, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Behind each and every incident, you can bet your bottom dollar the self righteous, evangelicals are lurking somewhere in the shadows, ranting over the evils of liquor, abortion, sex outside marriage and the usual agenda. This has to be the most puritanical lunacy I've ever hard of to date. These guys make the Taliban seem like raving-looney, bleeding heart liberals and where is the outcry?

"Kelly and Robinson — the boys' stepfather — were charged with nine misdemeanor counts each of contributing to the delinquency of a minor resulting from the August 2002 backyard birthday bash. Both were originally sentenced to eight years, but the sentences were reduced to 27 months. The case was appealed to the Virginia Supreme Court and then the U.S. Supreme Court, which recently declined to hear it.
Robinson's attorney, Jonathan Wren, called the jail time the "harshest sentence of its kind by a long shot." Wren said his client declined to comment.
Kelly said she reasoned that supplying the kids with alcohol and keeping them home would be safer than having them out drinking and driving."

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

The BEEB has apparently addressed this case and letters are churning in on message boards. Here are some comments, including some Americans commenting:
"Once again - the punishment does not fit the crime. I would think that if any parents were concerned, it should be an issue that should have been shared person to person rather than ruining someone's life. Another atrocity resulting from apparently a minimum sentence limiting a judge's access to sanity and mercy.If I was on the jury and was aware such a sentence was possible, I would not convict no matter of the evidence.Where are our priorities?
Charles, Orlando, FL"

A brilliant article that shows how ridiculous the moral crusaders of the United States really are. I am a generally pro-American Briton, supporting the 'special relationship' between our two countries, but it amazes me that religious dogma and self-righteous moralists continues to dominate large parts of American society. It is an absolute outrage that this woman has been jailed at all, let alone for two and a half years. If it had happened in Europe, there would have been a massive outcry.
Chris Thomas, Ruislip, Middlesex, UK"

"Nice article Mr. Frei. This shows to the world the asinine alcohol laws in the USA. Some may not be aware that Elizabeth Dole wanted to raise the age limit to 24! We brought my daughter up in the "European" style having an odd glass of wine with lunch from age 16 - now I see the penalty exerted on Ms. Kelly I shudder about it. She travelled to Europe on a trip with other 18/19 year olds and the US kids went absolutely crazy with the legal booze there. My daughter was well in control. Hmmm.
Neil R, Raleigh nc"

"But this case demonstrates the lie! How can it EVER be the government's business that 16-year olds drink beer?
I am sure the government in Tehran and the Taliban in their caves applaud such laws! But who else would?![Spironline], Denmark."

"To paraphrase, Jimmy Carter, "We are a nation of differences, which gives us our strength". Citizens have the right to vote and enact laws. We have freedom of speech. We may not be perfect, but we are still the best ship afloat. If someone decides to break the law, they should be prepared to pay the price. Choices in life has consequences. We teach that fact to our children. Shall adults think they are exempt?Colleen, Tulsa, OK."

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Scotty_Dog

While I'll admit that 2 years seems an excessive sentence, the law is especially meant as a deterrent from giving other people's underage children alcohol. They were charged with 9 misdemeanor counts each of contributing to the delinquency of a minor, because 8 of those minors were not their own children. I would not want another adult buying and/or giving my child alcohol.

The law is meant as a severe deterrent because of the possibilities what might happen after underage people consume alcohol. For instance, what if 1 or more of the teenagers got drunk, decided to leave the party to go for a drive, and ended up killing another innocent motorist.

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"There is alot of blather here that does not float the hooey barge." boudreaux 11/22/2005

Scotty_Dog

And here is probably why they received such a harsh sentence:

But Albemarle County Commonwealth's Attorney James L. Camblos III, who prosecuted the parents, said it was the worst case of underage drinking he has had to deal with in 15 years. "Not only were they serving alcohol to 15- and 16-year-olds, they misled parents who called to ask about alcohol, and they tried to get the kids to cover it up after police got there," Camblos said.

from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...7060802795.html

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"There is alot of blather here that does not float the hooey barge." boudreaux 11/22/2005

Carrera

"I'll admit that 2 years seems an excessive sentence."

Way, way excessive! I'm not saying a wrong wasn't committed here but it hardly compares with rape and mugging or drug-trafficing. This woman should have gotten a fine and a warning - period. That's my view.
Also, we very much need to address which is the greater crime: Is it allowing the kids to drink at a birthday party or police setting dogs on the same kids as they fled the home through the woods? I saw the interview on T.V. last night where the lady was interviewed while in prison and this was her account. The kids fled into the woods and dogs were set on them.
If it happened in France, I believe there would be major street riots.

__________________
"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

"For instance, what if 1 or more of the teenagers got drunk, decided to leave the party to go for a drive, and ended up killing another innocent motorist."

The hitch is it didn't happen. So far as I know, none of the kids at the party got into any car in a state of intoxication. The mother also claims to have asked party members not to drive.
These moral police were jumping the gun before any incident took place.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

jhuskey

The HBD crash rate for 16-year-old drivers is 1.8 times higher than drivers of all ages.
The HBD crash rate for 16 to 19-year-old drivers is 1.9 times higher than drivers of all ages.

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Whenever I can't get excited about riding I just fantasize about someone else's bike.

Scotty_Dog

So using that logic, maybe next time they should wait until after someone gets hurt or killed?!?!

The 2 parents sentenced to jail lied to the other parents about the alcohol, and attempted to get the children to lie to the police. It's one thing to allow your own children to reasonably consume some alcohol now and again, but you can't supply and contribute alcohol to other children.

It's so painfully obvious that you have no children.

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"There is alot of blather here that does not float the hooey barge." boudreaux 11/22/2005

limerickman

I agree.
They weren't driving cars.

The coverage of this case over here reports that the lady in question retained the car keys of the kids concerned - so they couldn't use their cars even if they wanted to.

Carerra, I agree with you with regard to this case.
The sentence imposed is totally disproportionate.
The sentence may adhere to the letter of the law - but I would think that this sentence goes against the spirit of that same law.

You've got to remember parts of the US are extremely puritanical when it comes to alcohol consumption.
Being charitable I would say the judge was playing up the local hicks in Virginia.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Carrera

"It's so painfully obvious that you have no children."

I've always been of the opinion that to post here, people should be fairly thick-skinned and be able to take what they also dish out with a shrug (and maybe a smile?). Even so, I don't think I deserve to be questioned as to whether I have kids or not. If this comment had been made to someone who was impotent and yearning to have children it would have caused major offence. It's a free world. If you don't agree with me, this is your right. Why get so uptight?
Maybe the parents lied because they understandably wanted to have a party and enjoy a birthday? I understand the lady confiscated the car keys. Nobody drove while intoxicated. An 8 year jail sentence is ludicrous.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

Maybe some folks jumped to the conclusion I was having a dig at the U.S. but in actual fact I'm defending an American citizen and her children with a view to personal liberties. I think it's totally outrageous. This woman is currently doing time for serving a bit of alcohol in her own home at a birthday party. Had the kids left the home and drove while drunk, sure, as a cyclist I'd admit this would be another matter. As you say, though, the mother confiscated the keys.
I'm glad the Beeb has latched onto the case. I hope there is a major movement in the U.S. and liberal Americans start to make their voices heard as they did in the sixties.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

limerickman

I'm not jumping to any conclusions Carerra about your having a dig at the US.

The fact of the matter is that the law in certain states of the USA is puritanical when it comes to issues like alcohol.

The authorities decided to try to make an example of this woman.
Their stance is totally disproportionate in my opinion.
In addition I still contend that while they're intent on enforcing the letter of the law - I don't believe that they're adhering to the spirit of that same law.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

jhuskey

Lim , I am disappointed you would make a generalized statement about the people in W.Va.

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Whenever I can't get excited about riding I just fantasize about someone else's bike.

Hypnospin

when i was was a teen in ca, us, it was not uncommon to have parties with adults present, alcohol included. and look how well we turned out...ok, i may be the exception.
there was an incident once, kid was riding his 750 in front of the party and fatally nails another kid who was on the street playing frisbee. a year later there was a memorial party. the kid who rode the 750 eventually dies in a boating accident.


a friend of mine always used to pose the question, in genuine wonder, why it was a kid in the us could sign up for to join the army and go to war yet not be permitted to drink.




[QUOTE=Carrera]O.K., here are the facts. Giving alcohol to some 16 year olds at a teen house party in her own home, the sort of thing that happens in France every day.
raving-looney, bleeding heart liberals and where is the outcry?

]

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"The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so must we think anew and act anew"
Abraham Lincoln, in his address to congress dec. 1st, 1861