How do you plan interval outdoors ?

snhrider

When you do intervals outdoors, do you plan out your route ahead and decide where to start/end your intervals ? For example, if you want to do 4x10 intervals, how do you plan your ride such that you do not encounter a stoplight or a downhill in the middle of an interval or a big hill while recovering between intervals ? I can see how any interval can be done if you ride a relatively flat course multiple times but what if your ride is just one big loop (or out and back) and the terrain is 'random' for example ? Thanks in advance.

Uhl

To some extent yes, I do plan my rides according to my workouts. When doing intervals, I'll choose a route that doesn't have too much traffic or intersections, at least for the interval portion of the ride. I won't necessarily have all the starting points decided beforehand, but I will consider the length of the interval and have an idea of where I should end up.

Fortunately, I live in an area where this is easy to accomplish. If you're in a more urban region, it may take some reconnaissance to find uninterrupted routes for longer intervals. Then you can just use those over and over again.

But even if you do have to slow down or even stop during an interval, don't worry, you can just go a little bit harder as you start up again. You shouldn't lose too much of the training effect by doing so (as long as the break wasn't super-long).

Another trick is: If you know a red light is coming up, then you can ride the brakes while continuing to pedal to keep your wattage up and try to time it just right so you don't have to come to a complete stop.

rule62

Yep...then just deal with the variables as best as possible.

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sogood

It is a problem. The only place I've found where I can do intervals is in a park in our city. The park has a loop of around 4km with no traffic lights or stopping. However, I can only get there once or twice a week. The other bad news is that there's a speed limit of 30kph that's occasionally policed. So pushing hard can be risky at times.

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Piotr

I live in a mountainous region, so my interval sessions always involve going up and down the same hill or canyon road. I guess the same could apply to flat regions, back and forth on the same out of town stretch of road.

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ecandl

I've started doing pyramid intervals the last few weeks. I don't have a powermeter so I just go by perceived effort and try to maintain a consistent effort whether the road is flat, uphill, or downhill, wind, no wind. Any course I take seems to work. Only downside I can see is that I can't really gauge improvement/effort during intervals. I test improvement with hillclimb times or loops I ride periodically. I've given up on my HR monitor -too inconsistent and I always seem to get 240 as my max.

daveryanwyoming

I'm curious, how do you define your pyramids in terms of time at each level and intensity of each level and what physiological systems do they target?

ecandl

As for time - after warmingup (5-15 min. depending on time I have) 5min on 4min off, 4min on 3 min off then 3,2,1,1,2,3,4,5 followed by cooldown.

My goal is to be able to maintain a consitent effort from the first through the last interval. In reality, I think my effort is greater the shorter the interval. The last couple of intervals are usually pretty tough - I would guess that effort is higher, power lower. My efforts are above LT, so anaerboic right?

My rationale for this training is to increase power, hopefully enabling me to bridge or create gaps.

I am just a novice, my understanding of terminology and training technique is weak at best.

daveryanwyoming

Without PM data it's hard to say how you're pacing them, but at first glance I'd say these fall into the "neither here, nor there" camp of training. Your early and late efforts are too long to be purely anaerobic and if done at the appropriate intensity would be VO2 max work. The rest intervals are long enough that I doubt your average power works out above L2 or endurance pacing. The middle efforts might be good L6 or anaerobic tolerance work but only if you do them sufficiently hard enough which is unlikely if you shoot for steady pace from beginning to end or if you pace back the 1 minute efforts knowing the back half of the pyramid is still coming.

I've had team mates advocate similar pyramids in the past, but when you looked at them they didn't really target anything in particular and sort of missed all around. I think of them a lot like typical group hammerfest rides. They can feel and actually be quite hard but the hard efforts are usually pure L6 and the overall intensity is usually quite low. That's fine for L6 speed work topping off a solid aerobic training base but too many riders do them too often thinking they'll help overall when they tend to only help with short anaerobic L6 and L7 efforts.
I'm sure the 5 and 4 and even 3 minute efforts aren't anaerobic since it's a rare individual that can fuel themselves via anaerobic glycolocis for that long. Those longer efforts in your pyramids could be at VO2 Max intensities which defines the top end of your aerobic range even though it's quite painful and forces you to maximal breathing. I say could be, because it depends on how hard you hit them and again it's doubtful you'll give those early efforts your all with the more intense shorter efforts still to come and doubtful you'll have enough juice in your tank or motivation to finish the last few efforts at VO2 Max power after everything that led up to them.
That could be true if you can hit the efforts hard enough. The best you can hope for with this is some VO2 max work and some L6 or anaerobic tolerance work if you can make yourself work hard enough. If you do then the place it will pay off is bridging or creating gaps and dealing with surges as you suggest. Just as long as you don't expect it to help your overall power for long climbs or holding fast pace or time trialing.

Personally I'd target one system or another for most intense rides. IOW, I'd schedule a day of L5 (VO2 max) work where I hit those hard with 3 to 5 minute efforts with equal on and off periods or I'd target L6 (anaerobic tolerance) with focused 1 to 2 minute intense efforts followed by equal rest periods. I'd want to put all my energies into the task at hand and not mix and match. An occasional group ride or training race can provide the more random speed changes and power demands to mimic real racing but I'd train up the specific systems first and wouldn't do too many of the hammerfest rides.

As a beginner just make sure you're spending most of your training time working longer efforts like 10 to 30 minute SST and L4 efforts. Those will be the best bang for your buck in the early going and even later on will form the backbone of your training. All the anaerobic capacity in the world won't help if you can't hold pace aerobically.

Just remember, random training produces random results.....

Good luck,
Dave

ecandl

As a beginner just make sure you're spending most of your training time working longer efforts like 10 to 30 minute SST and L4 efforts. Those will be the best bang for your buck in the early going and even later on will form the backbone of your training. All the anaerobic capacity in the world won't help if you can't hold pace aerobically.

Just remember, random training produces random results.....

Good luck,
Dave[/QUOTE]Thanks for the info. How about a little more. I would appreciate your input. Background: Triathlons last 3 years (2-3 hrs. per week on bike) 1st bike race 3 weeks ago, 30 minute crit with 2 small hills, finished 15th of 55 and my legs felt like I could have done another one. 2-3 more crits this summer with 85 minute hillclimb to end the season. Hopefully more next year.

Here is an average week for me:

Mon. Pyramid intervals

Tues. 100 min group ride. 45 minutes of threshhold paceline with 15 riders. If you can't pull through, you must drop off back. I have been dropped every time. End up working with a few others to finish. This is my hardest ride of the week.

Wed. Hill repeats. Take 2min40sec avg. to complete each interval. 90% max effort.

Thurs. rest day with short run and or swim.

Friday. 2-3x20s

Sat. 2-3 hour ride. Requires some focus to maintain speed, more effort on a couple of small climbs.

Sun. complete rest, maybe a walk with my family

Thanks for your help. I don't have a lot of time due to time constraints, most workouts are in the morning before work.

daveryanwyoming

O.K. I'd probably call these L6 work or realistically I'd swap in a pure L6 workout here if you want to work AC.
Doesn't sound like threshold work if you're getting dropped every time. Sounds a bit tougher. Again hard to say without a PM to record your effort but if you rotate with 15 other riders at a pace where you eventually get dropped I suspect you're going much harder than threshold on your pulls and when you try to reconnect after your pulls and probably working much easier as you move back towards the front. Not sure what this works out to, but I doubt it's threshold work.
Sounds like short VO2 max intervals but don't know what you mean by 90% max effort. 90% of what you could do for that duration? If so it may or may not actually work out to VO2 max work. Can you start on the flats a bit before the hill and get these up to 3 or more minutes. If so they could be decent VO2 max(L5) efforts if each one was done at the best steady pace you could hold for that time or something very close to it.
Coming from triathalons a run or swim might be a lot easier for you, but I sure wouldn't call anything a rest day that involved running at any pace. Remember training stress breaks you down and is necessary to bring about adaptations, but those adaptations occur while you're resting not while you're training. If you don't give yourself adequate rest between hard workouts you'll just dig deeper and deeper and won't be able to put out sufficient effort when the time comes to go hard again. More importantly you won't adapt if you don't give your body some time to come up for air. Are you really resting on this day?
If these are done near your best effort for the duration then this is your threshold or SST day. You should be breathing deeply and steadily but not gasping or having to back off your pace to finish. You also shouldn't be able to hold a conversation beyond a couple of words here and there.
Sounds like Tempo(L3) to low SST work. These are my favorite workouts of the week and often result in FTP progress.
O.K. this sounds like a genuine rest day.

You've got an interesting weekly schedule, but it sounds to me like you're loading up a bit too much intensity and perhaps a bit too much beyond your control with the ride till you drop group ride. That's probably great threshold work for the fitter guys in the group(the one's that set the pace and don't get dropped) but you're using someone else's pace to determine your "threshold" workout. I'd drop that one and substitute solo L4/SST work in its place. Maybe go along on that ride every couple of weeks or even less frequently just as a way to measure progress and get some group riding experience but I wouldn't count on that ride to help you much if you consistently ride yourself to the point of getting dropped.

If you really want to dial a schedule like that you really should hire one of the excellent licensed coaches here like Ric or Alex. That's what they do and do really well, they help folks figure out how to make progress when they don't have all the time in the world to train and recover.

Some general thoughts though:
Work down in intensity and up in duration as the week progresses. This lets you really focus your energies on your hardest workout while you're most fresh and means every sucessive workout is a bit easier and usually a bit more enjoyable. It also leaves you freshest for weekend races. The key is to avoid piling up both intensity and duration early in the week or you'll have trouble working out the following day.

On that note manage duration and intensity so that you can recover for the following workouts. I do our local Tuesday night hammerfest about once a month for social reasons, to get some good speedwork and to see how I'm doing relative to local racers. Invariably I have to ramp down my normal Wednesday workout after a hammering Tuesday night even though I'm not getting dropped on that ride and usually ride near the front, stick the breaks and contest the sprints. But it still costs me too much relative to my normal training week and I end up missing quality as the week progresses. This costs me in terms of training load and puts my weekly schedule out of whack. It's one reason I don't do the Tuesday night group ride every week, it just screws with my weekly training too much.

Good luck,
Dave