VO2 Max Training Question

GIH

Hello I have a training question if ya'll don't mind. A few weeks ago I decided I wanted to do one level 5 (Coggan levels) training session per week. My 5 minute power is much stronger than my FTP (or pessimisticly my FTP is very weak) according to the charts in Dr. Coggan's book as I have the inverted V shaped power profile, but I thought it would be a good idea anyways.

I typically train by doing 4 minute intervals with 4 minute rest, and I've slowly increased the power. Today and the week before I haven't been able to finish them, and I think its most likely because the NP is above my FTP during the workout. For example today I blew up during the 5th repeat and I ended up having a 36 minute NP 15 watts higher than my FTP, which is why I think it was so hard.

So here is the question: How much do I lose by putting in a longer break? Would I lose very much by doing 5 or 6 minute intervals with a break like 10 minutes or something? Or should I just shelve the VO2 intervals for a while and work on threshold until my power profile evens out?

My main goal is to improve both my FTP and my VO2 max so as to become better at cycling, but I have more specific goals. I'm an inexperienced racer so I mostly concerned about my fitness for a couple of events in November. I'm sort of new but not quite a beginner any more. I've trained about 6 months, with a Kinetic for 3 months and with a powertap for 3 months.

Animator

I've read on this forum that the length of the rest interval is not as important as the time within the level, unless you're doing micro-intervals or something of that sort. Whether this is correct or not, I'd be interested to find out too.

GIH

I think that is especially true for Level 4 intervals. I think with level 5 intervals anaerobic work capacity can make it easier to do the intervals if you rest too much, so if I did 4 minute level 5 intervals with 10 minute rest in between I might let my anaerobic system recover so much that I'm not really stimulating gains in VO2 max.

rr9876

I think that if you rest too long in between VO2 intervals it allows too much of your anaerobic capacity to be restored. As a result you are able to "cheat" during the on portions of the workout by using to much anaerobic capacity. This causes you to place less stress on the top end aerobic system, which means less of an increase in VO2max.

I would say that if you are having trouble getting through 5x4 min w/ 4 min rest then you are going too hard during the on portions. Either you are going too hard overall or going too hard in the first couple intervals and leaving nothing left for the rest of the workout. Finding the proper wattage at which to pace VO2 intervals takes some experimenting; you can't really base it off of a certain percentage off FTP or some shorter MMP value (like 5 minutes for example).

I think that your idea of using NP might be good place to get a starting value, though. Figure out what power you can do your repeats at in order for the entire work/rest sequence to come out with a NP of roughly your FTP, and then use that as a target for your next workout. At the end if you've still got a bit left, try to adjust things up a bit for the next workout.

robkit

my gut feeling is with the first response, that the rest period is less imporant than being able to complete the planned session of numintervals x intervalength. and that it would only come into play if you were looking to very specifically train repeatability of/recovery from short intervals, if that's even genuinely possible.

then again, the point about recovery of anaerobic capacity sounds a good one.

for vo2 max i do 4 min intervals with 6 mins rest, as much for phsycological recovery as well. if i felt like i could get the session over with using less time in rest periods that may be nice, but more likely that would be the point where i'd up the interval power.

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GIH

Yeah it definitely makes sense to do them at less power. I don't know why I didn't consider that. Today I did them at 92% of CP5 which is 123% of FTP for me. According to Coggan's power levels it was actually an L6 workout, but no doubt those levels are supposed to be tailored to an individual athelete's power profile.

Animator

Thanks, that makes sense. And my limited experience seems to correlate well with it, i.e., I can consistently hit very high 5 min. averages with lots of rest between intervals.

Spunout

Something to think about: Are you chasing numbers or training for racing?

In a racing situation, nobody is going to wait for you because you aren't sufficiently recovered between efforts. Mix it up with tolerance/limited recovery intervals (1:1.5 L6 and 1:1 L5) because the ability to repeat efforts quickly is key with staying in or making the winning move.

GIH

Ultimately I only really care about racing, but I'm probably not going to do that many races this year, I'm more focused on a couple of events at the end of the year and trying to start off next year in good shape.There is one weekly crit that I need to go to more often to work on Anaerobic efforts. Also the all important bike handling which is what I need to improve the most by far.

otb4evr

When I think about how little I know about the physiology of training, I always tend to take direction from people that I consider to know more than I.

Here is what Dr. C had to say about L5 training:

http://groups.google.com/group/watt...812318e4dc90725

(Subscription required, but if you haven't subscribed to the Wattage group, you should...)

Here is a snippet dealing with the rest interval:

Jim

Quadsweep

I would certainly agree with Dr Coggan. That is a good linked thread!