De Rosa Idol failure

Steve Hogg

G'day all,
I have a customer who bought a De Rosa Idol in Italy. We assembled it for him and 500 metres into the first ride the extended seat mast failed when a 73kg rider sat on the seat after making an off the seat effort.
I inspected and measured the wall thickness of the front of the seat mast where there is limited stress, and it is 2.5mm thick. The wall thickness of the rear of the seat mast where there is high stress is 1.5mm thick; i.e, 40% less material than at the front..

The shop in Italy where the frame was purchased (there is no Aust. distributor) is giving him the runaround and referring him to De Rosa. I have sent repeated emails to De Rosa with photos attached that clearly show the screen of my digital vernier calipers highlighting the difference in tube wall thickness between front and rear of the tube. I am still waiting for a reply 5 weeks on.

What I am asking is if there are any De Rosa Idol users out there who can remove the mini seat post and measure the wall thickness of the their seat masts at front and rear of the the tube?

If there is, I would dearly like to know the measurements. If as I suspect, the wall thickness is a constant 2.5mm, then may be some one in the De Rosa factory might have an attack of conscience and answer my emails and start a dialogue regarding this issue.

At the moment, what is peeving me more than the frame failure is the total lack of interest in customer relations shown by the manufacturer.

Regards,
Steve Hogg

sideshow_bob

Unfortunately the best I'm able to offer is for you to try the De Rosa forums at:

http://www.derosanews.com/derosa/mo...ewforum&forum=5

I've posted a couple of questions there and had some good luck in terms of responses.

--brett

Steve Hogg

To any that may be reading this 8 months on.

De Rosa eventually supplied a replacement Idol but took 7 months and a lot of aggravation to do so. When it arrived it was supplied WITHOUT proprietary seat post and WITHOUT integrated head set cups bonded into the head tube. So in its' current state the frame is useless and the saga continues as the owner now attempts to get these parts from De Rosa.

In the last 7 months I have only seen two other Idol frames. Both had failed. One had let go in the rear stays and the warranty replacement for it had a cracked seat stay / RH rear tip junction as supplied.

I think there is a message in all of this. The acronym for it is DBDR!

Regards,
Steve Hogg

Powerful Pete

Very sorry to hear that Steve. Have you been able to get in contact with the company directly? My lowly De Rosa Planet keeps me happy, but I find that that kind of customer service, or lack thereof, will win the De Rosas no new customers...

__________________
De Rosa Planet
Campagnolo Per Sempre!
PAOLO BETTINI CAMPIONE DEL MONDO x 2!

dhk2

Yeah, disappointing. The "italian bike with heart" should be all about top-notch quality and customer service....in fact, it must be if they hope to survive the flood of high-quality, low-cost CF frames from Taiwan and China.

Let's hope my rental De Rosa Avant does better in it's homeland later this month

Powerful Pete

Indeed. Enjoy yourself!

__________________
De Rosa Planet
Campagnolo Per Sempre!
PAOLO BETTINI CAMPIONE DEL MONDO x 2!

Steve Hogg

G'day Pete,
I attempted to contact De Rosa after the initial problem. I tried via the contact info on their site as well as the email address of one of the prinicipals of the company that was supplied to me by someone else. I sent half a dozen emails with photos attached over a 5 week period for zero replies.

Some years ago I had problems with paint falling off new De Rosas in large flakes. It was a bit of a problem here in Oz for a period. The distributor got such an unsatisfactory response from De Rosa that he had the problem frames (quite a few) repainted here in Oz at his own expense and stopped distributing DR's.

I am coming to the view that they are now just a generic Italian brand that is more about show than go and have zero interest in backing their product post sale.

I contrast their attitude with that of many American manufacturers who offer a lifetime warranty and are easy to deal with versus DR's much shorter warranty where if there is a claim, they attempt to wear you out to the point where most people give up.

As you can see this rankles with me. I offer an unconditional money back guarantee on anything we do. I don't expect others to do the same. What I do expect is that when they have an explicit warranty that they honour it without having to be dragged screaming to do it. And when they do honour it 7 months later, they forget to include bits that allow the bike to be frame to be ridden. DBDR!

Regards,
Steve

alienator

I think I've read posts from the owner(s) of a couple of the failures you noted. It is disturbing, at best, that De Rosa is responding as they are.

I don't think they're a generic Italian brand, but I do think that they've failed to move forward with bike technology and more importantly, communication technology. I think they don't realize how quickly word of mechanical failures coupled with piss poor customer service spreads around the world. It does seem as if they're expecting their name to carry them and give them that cachet that makes bikes dream bikes for some. That ain't happenin'.

Failures happen to the best of products and to the best of engineers and scientists; however, not acting quickly to diagnose failures and to prevent them in the future is nearly criminal. To ignore the customer is unacceptable.

FWIW, I don't think a lifetime warranty is a necessity. I think 5 years is more than enough, especially given the abuse that riders dole out to their bikes. It does seem, though, that De Rosa doesn't place any importance on warranties, either. Contrast De Rosa with some of the other bike manufactuers. Nick Crumpton and Richard Sachs are very active in several forums, as is David Kirk. Brent Ruegamer is very customer proactive and also regularly participates and answers questions on at least two forums. Jared, from Baum, in Australia, does the same. Bob Parlee frequents two forums to answer questions. Chas, from Look USA, is uber proactive. Not only does he get issues addressed quickly for US customers, but he also intervenes toute de suite for international customers even though they're not in his territory.

DeRosa really needs to wake up and take a look at all of their competitors that are doing business and customers right.

Powerful Pete

Steve, I hate to admit this as a De Rosa fanboy, but there are complaints about their customer service also here in Italy (which is even less excuseable - no language or distance issues that they can claim).

I also agree with Alienator, I think they do not comprehend the potential impact of word of mouth experience on their sales.

This things are giving me pause for thought when the time comes for the purchase of my next bike - and I am one of the truth believers (I own a 1993 De Rosa Professional - Columbus SLX tubing also).

I believe that if one is able to get to Ugo himselfl these issues would be quickly resolved, but I sincerely doubt he is an internet-using kind of guy. I am much less trusting of his sons, who appear to be somewhat arrogant (based on some interviews I have seen done with them).

There is also a more basic issue in Italy with the entire concept of customer service, and this is changing slowly today, given the shock that Italian builders are encountering when they see the number of Scotts, Cannondales and the like on Italian roads and in Gran Fondos. These are frames that are replaced, no questions asked, in days or weeks, if there are problems.

__________________
De Rosa Planet
Campagnolo Per Sempre!
PAOLO BETTINI CAMPIONE DEL MONDO x 2!

Steve Hogg

G'day Pete and Alienator,
I'm sure that you are right. I have a friend who used to be a long time De Rosa user some years ago (steel frames) when the old man was in charge. He had a problem once with a frame and it was replaced promptly without fuss. As I understand it and correct me if I am wrong, the sons run the show and the accountant son has the whip hand and it shows.

Re warranty periods; perception is everything and frankly most people turn over their frames in 5 years or less so I think 5 years is adequate. The Americans worked out some time ago that warranty claims are going to chew up a predictable percentage of their net return, so they build it into the price which is why they offer a lifetime warranty.

All brands of frame have failures, it is what happens afterwards that is the test of the brand. My most loyal customers are not the ones who have had perfect experiences with us everytime they have dealt with us but the ones for whom we responded positively when they had a problem with a product, advice or service that we had supplied.

De Rosa ( and from what you have said) Italy needs to learn that. One thing about Italian stuff though; I have never had anything but the most positive response from the local Campag warranty people (Italian gent too) when it came to Campag issues.


Anyway, this has helped rid my pissoffedness, time to move on.

Steve