Genetic Potential / Trainability of FTP

Originally Posted by Markster

Anyone have any input?

Originally Posted by frenchyge

Have you done a 'true' dizzy-headed, fall-off-the-bike, 1 minute test? I'd be really surprised to see a 425w 5-min test and a mere 560w 1-min test. 1200w for 5-sec is really not bad either, which also puts the 1-min result into question.

Originally Posted by Markster

Is there much connection between the 5secs and 1min durations?

Originally Posted by Markster

A few weeks ago I did a HC which took 8:15 and I averaged 408W NP (400W average). I'd estimate my 5min power is at least 425W.
This time last year I did a 6:05 HC at a similar level of fitness and I averaged 425W @ 70W.

However, my FTP is currently only 321W. This is about 6 rows lower on the Power Profile tables. My 1min and 5sec powers (560W and 1200W respectively) are way below these numbers so I don't think my 5min power is elevated by a large anaerobic capacity ( I don't have particularly big muscles and I've done a CP analysis in the past and my AC was about 25k).

These figures give me a sharply inverted V profile. I've struggled with consistent training the last few years (a lot of overtraining and stuff), and although I've seen big gains doing FTP work, I've never managed to sustain a block for longer than 4weeks. I therefore don't have much idea of my real FTP potential, and whether I'm a natural inverted V, or whether I can improve my FTP to nearer my 5min power.

I've read that 'good' TTers can get their FTP to within 90% of their VO2max values. How much is this percentage defined by genetics? Can people generally achieve, say, 80%, but only a few have the potential to achieve 90%?

My goal is TTing so I will be focussing on increasing my FTP. I've also got on top of all the training issues I previously had so expect to train a lot more consistently. My goal for next season is an FTP of 350W (previous best is 335W).

Using the 8:15 HC @ 400W as an estimate of my VO2max power (how valid is this?) and assuming it doesn't change, my goal power power will be 88% of my VO2max power. Does this seem achievable? Is 90% (360W) achievable? I think I read that Dr Coggan can reach an FTP of 90% of VO2max power, but isn't he a bit of an aerobic monster? (sorry Andy!).

Anyone have any input?

Thanks very much!

Originally Posted by rmur17

first thing that comes to mind is whether you're comparing apple-apples for ~5MP and FTP powers. Did those hillclimb results involve a lot of standing for instance? Or perhaps are your FTP estimates taken from TT's or workouts in a tight aero position?

If neither is the case (comparable positions, motivation, cooling, altitude) then we are talking apples-apples.

FTP at 75% of 5MP ... probably on the low side ... though I can't recall seeing many statistics.

Re FTP training, a 4-week block is about typical for you? For me that's a break-in period to real threhold training. I did five months steady last year w/o a break and then another three months on top of that.

Originally Posted by Markster

My TT position doesn't seem to affect my power production at all compared to my road bike position (it's not extreme and I train in the TT position a lot). I picked specific figures for my intial post, but there are plenty more that confirm the V-shape on the power profile.

The 4wk FTP blocks were not by design. I'd always tend to get carried away by the big increase I'd see in my numbers doing threshold work and then push too hard trying to make every workout a PB. I'd then go backwards and dump the FTP training for something else. I'm over that now!

Originally Posted by rmur17

okay. Dem's apples.

Sounds like you have your answer then: keep the threshold training steady, incrementally progressive and see where you end up. Think tortoise instead of hare.

IIRC, many folks do longish blocks of threshold training 8-12-16 weeks ... even longer.

personally I've reached about 87% FTP/5MP ratio - can't say what that would really be in Vo2max terms. 90% is a nice target if you're a TT'r.

Originally Posted by LarsEjaas

My 5 min. power is actually better than yours, and I would be hard preasured to do more than the 560 watts for a minute too :-( Of course this is one of my week points, and I'm actually racing cyclocross this winter to try to improve this. Just to say - you are NOT the only rider out there with a weak AWC.

You should be able to get your FTP up at around 90% of your 5 min. power unless your AWC is really good (and this doesn't seem to be the case...). Nothing magic here - keep doing long intervals at around FTP. As you have discovered - do not force it, it is better to be a little conservative and then build for a longer time. My experience (to quote NIKE): just do it! Do not get to caried away with PB's - focus on actually doing the planned number of intervals save the PB's for racing!

Originally Posted by Markster

Is/has your FTP been up around the 90% of 5min level?

Cheers.

Originally Posted by LarsEjaas

It HAS been (think the highest has been around 87%), but my 5 min. power has improved quite a lot during the last year, and I haven't done the fokused FTP work as I used to (less focus on timetrials) - so now it's FAR from that.

(I actually just calculated my FTP to 78% of my 5 min. power - so lots of room for improvements! This was, however in the summer - I have just had a long "end of season brake, so my fitness is a lot worse right now").