The Trudgen Stroke

Pat

The American Red Cross "Swimming and Diving" copyright 1938

"John Trudgen went to Buenos Ayres in 1863. While there he learned "to
trudge" from the natives."

"Briefly, it is a combination of the hand-over-hand method of employing the
arms in combination with a single scissors stroke of the legs which by
adding a considerable roll of the body has evolved from the overarm side
stroke. The arm on one side strokes along but on the other, the arm pull is
combined with a scissors of the legs.
Theoretically, this unbalanced thrust should result in uneven propulsion,but
in actual practice,if the momentum is properly employed in a substantial
glide, progress is almost continuous. The breath is taken, as usual, during
the highest point of the stroke, which, in this case, is during the pull of
the single arm. The exhalation takes place during the combined stroke of the
other arm and of the legs."

Yes, folks, that is how they wrote in 1938. The arms while underwater are
straight. (pictures were included in the book) The legs were done in the
side stroke fashion. The head and shoulders were out of the water during the
stroke. So, maybe the two older folks I saw swimming similar to this were
doing the Trudgeon. Now, I just have to get up the nerve to ask them....

Pat in TX

Steve Freides

"Pat" <Orion@starrynight.com> wrote in message
news:5q1950Ftjsv5U1@mid.individual.net...
> The American Red Cross "Swimming and Diving" copyright 1938
>
> "John Trudgen went to Buenos Ayres in 1863. While there he learned "to
> trudge" from the natives."
>
> "Briefly, it is a combination of the hand-over-hand method of
> employing the arms in combination with a single scissors stroke of the
> legs which by adding a considerable roll of the body has evolved from
> the overarm side stroke. The arm on one side strokes along but on the
> other, the arm pull is combined with a scissors of the legs.
> Theoretically, this unbalanced thrust should result in uneven
> propulsion,but in actual practice,if the momentum is properly employed
> in a substantial glide, progress is almost continuous. The breath is
> taken, as usual, during the highest point of the stroke, which, in
> this case, is during the pull of the single arm. The exhalation takes
> place during the combined stroke of the other arm and of the legs."
>
> Yes, folks, that is how they wrote in 1938. The arms while underwater
> are straight. (pictures were included in the book) The legs were done
> in the side stroke fashion. The head and shoulders were out of the
> water during the stroke. So, maybe the two older folks I saw swimming
> similar to this were doing the Trudgeon. Now, I just have to get up
> the nerve to ask them....
>
> Pat in TX

We still teach sidestroke, including that kick, in the YMCA swimming
program and the YMCA lifeguard class.

-S-

Steve Curtis

"Steve*Freides" wrote:

>We still teach sidestroke, including that
>kick, in the YMCA swimming program
>and the YMCA lifeguard class.

Has there ever been a sanctioned competitive sidestroke event?

mwsmith

Pat wrote:
> The American Red Cross "Swimming and Diving" copyright 1938
>
> "John Trudgen went to Buenos Ayres in 1863. While there he learned "to
> trudge" from the natives."
>
> "Briefly, it is a combination of the hand-over-hand method of employing the
> arms in combination with a single scissors stroke of the legs which by
> adding a considerable roll of the body has evolved from the overarm side
> stroke. The arm on one side strokes along but on the other, the arm pull is
> combined with a scissors of the legs.

I don't think the scissors kick came from the natives. They were already
using a flutter kick, but the scissor kick was the civilized thing in
england, so they changed to the "Trudgen" stroke but kept the scissor
kick. Kind of like riding side-saddle.

mwsmith

Steve Curtis wrote:
> "Steve Freides" wrote:
>
>> We still teach sidestroke, including that
>> kick, in the YMCA swimming program
>> and the YMCA lifeguard class.
>
> Has there ever been a sanctioned competitive sidestroke event?
>

Only for trolls.

Steve Freides

I wrote:

>We still teach sidestroke, including that
>kick, in the YMCA swimming program
>and the YMCA lifeguard class.

Steve Curtis replied:

> Has there ever been a sanctioned competitive sidestroke event?

I further reply:

I imagine some lifeguard teacher has done it in their class but I highly
doubt a sanctioned competition. Sidestroke, along with the heads-up
versions of front crawl and breastroke, are all taught as rescue strokes
only to the best of my knowledge. Sidestroke is taught because it
mimics, to some extent and for some circumstances, the type of thing
you'd have to do while moving a victim to safety, e.g., the kick can be
useful in a deep water spinal injury rescue.

The YMCA lifeguard course entrance test includes a 500 yard swim as
follows:

200 free

100 breast - both to test general swimming fitness

100 side stroke using only the front hand

100 elementary backstroke kick only - both these for rescue purposes

There's other stuff you have to be able to do as well, e.g., tread two
minutes without using your hands.

Not that you asked, but I thought I'd put sidestroke into a larger
context for anyone interested. We also teach it at the Shark level in
the kids swimming program.

-S-

Steve Curtis

"mwsmith" wrote:

>Steve Curtis wrote:

>>"Steve Freides" wrote:

>>>We still teach sidestroke, including
>>>that kick, in the YMCA swimming
>>>program and the YMCA lifeguard
>>>class.

>>Has there ever been a sanctioned
>>competitive sidestroke event?

>Only for trolls.

Pot, kettle, black.

Pat

>We still teach sidestroke, including that
>kick, in the YMCA swimming program
>and the YMCA lifeguard class.

Has there ever been a sanctioned competitive sidestroke event?

Page 123 of the book: "The overarm side stroke came into general use in
England at about the same time that interest in competitive swimming
quickened. The search for speedier strokes may or may not have been a
factor in its evolution, but certain this style of swimming was used by most
of the swimming champions over a period of years which extended almost to
the turn of the century (turn from 1800s to 1900s)."

"In the earlier years Davenport and Finney were among the best and speediest
exponents of overarm side stroke swimming and they were followed by Nuttall,
Evans and Tyers who held championships for many years.
With the advent of the trudgen style of swimming, overarm side stroke
swimming began to fade as a speed stroke and when the crawl came in, it was
quickly forgotten by competitive swimmers."

Pat

>>
>>> We still teach sidestroke, including that
>>> kick, in the YMCA swimming program
>>> and the YMCA lifeguard class.
>>
>> Has there ever been a sanctioned competitive sidestroke event?
>>
>
> Only for trolls.

Answer is Yes, there has been.

dave.clary@geewhizmail.com

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:16:03 -0500, "Steve Freides"
<steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:


>The YMCA lifeguard course entrance test includes a 500 yard swim as
>follows:

>100 side stroke using only the front hand

My granddaughter swims a pretty good IM but she said this felt really
strange when she took her life guard test. :-)

--
Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, TX
http://davidclary.com

mwsmith

Pat wrote:
>> We still teach sidestroke, including that
>> kick, in the YMCA swimming program
>> and the YMCA lifeguard class.
>
> Has there ever been a sanctioned competitive sidestroke event?
>
> Page 123 of the book: "The overarm side stroke came into general use in
> England at about the same time that interest in competitive swimming
> quickened. The search for speedier strokes may or may not have been a
> factor in its evolution, but certain this style of swimming was used by most
> of the swimming champions over a period of years which extended almost to
> the turn of the century (turn from 1800s to 1900s)."
>
> "In the earlier years Davenport and Finney were among the best and speediest
> exponents of overarm side stroke swimming and they were followed by Nuttall,
> Evans and Tyers who held championships for many years.
> With the advent of the trudgen style of swimming, overarm side stroke
> swimming began to fade as a speed stroke and when the crawl came in, it was
> quickly forgotten by competitive swimmers."

I think that was before sanctioning became an issue. FINA didn't appear
until about 1908.

_

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:44:57 +0100, mwsmith wrote:

> Pat wrote:
>>> We still teach sidestroke, including that
>>> kick, in the YMCA swimming program
>>> and the YMCA lifeguard class.
>>
>> Has there ever been a sanctioned competitive sidestroke event?
>>
>> Page 123 of the book: "The overarm side stroke came into general use in
>> England at about the same time that interest in competitive swimming
>> quickened. The search for speedier strokes may or may not have been a
>> factor in its evolution, but certain this style of swimming was used by most
>> of the swimming champions over a period of years which extended almost to
>> the turn of the century (turn from 1800s to 1900s)."
>>
>> "In the earlier years Davenport and Finney were among the best and speediest
>> exponents of overarm side stroke swimming and they were followed by Nuttall,
>> Evans and Tyers who held championships for many years.
>> With the advent of the trudgen style of swimming, overarm side stroke
>> swimming began to fade as a speed stroke and when the crawl came in, it was
>> quickly forgotten by competitive swimmers."
>
> I think that was before sanctioning became an issue. FINA didn't appear
> until about 1908.

No.

Sactioning became an issue with the war between the Swimming Association of
Great Britain and the Amateur Swimming Union, circa 1885.

mwsmith

_ wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:44:57 +0100, mwsmith wrote:
>
>> Pat wrote:
>>>> We still teach sidestroke, including that
>>>> kick, in the YMCA swimming program
>>>> and the YMCA lifeguard class.
>>> Has there ever been a sanctioned competitive sidestroke event?
>>>
>>> Page 123 of the book: "The overarm side stroke came into general use in
>>> England at about the same time that interest in competitive swimming
>>> quickened. The search for speedier strokes may or may not have been a
>>> factor in its evolution, but certain this style of swimming was used by most
>>> of the swimming champions over a period of years which extended almost to
>>> the turn of the century (turn from 1800s to 1900s)."
>>>
>>> "In the earlier years Davenport and Finney were among the best and speediest
>>> exponents of overarm side stroke swimming and they were followed by Nuttall,
>>> Evans and Tyers who held championships for many years.
>>> With the advent of the trudgen style of swimming, overarm side stroke
>>> swimming began to fade as a speed stroke and when the crawl came in, it was
>>> quickly forgotten by competitive swimmers."
>> I think that was before sanctioning became an issue. FINA didn't appear
>> until about 1908.
>
> No.
>
> Sactioning became an issue with the war between the Swimming Association of
> Great Britain and the Amateur Swimming Union, circa 1885.

No.

FINA didn't exist until 1908.

Pat

>>
>> Sactioning became an issue with the war between the Swimming Association
>> of
>> Great Britain and the Amateur Swimming Union, circa 1885.
>
> No.
>
> FINA didn't exist until 1908.

IIRC, the question was if competitive swimmers ever used the side stroke,
not "did competitive swimmers use the side stroke in the USA" (or in any
specific country). So, the answer is still "yes", it was used in
competition.

Pat in TX