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FTP VO2 max relationship?

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Old 23-11.-2007, 10:24 PM   #1
morning wood
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12
Default FTP VO2 max relationship?

I had a couple of Vo2max tests a while ago and what they really showed is what shyte athletic ability I have . I scored 47 mL.kg.min-1 and one and 49 on the other. These were carried out at a local university on an SRM stationary bike and gas/blood analysis etc. Results from one of the tests is shown below.



Haematocrit (%)
46.00
Haemoglobin (g/l)
136.00


Lactate 1

Lactate 2



Maximum Heart rate (beats.min-1)
181.00
Maximum Minute Power (W)
367.00
Power:Weight Ration (w.kg.min-1)
4.85
Fitness Index (w.kg.min0.67)
20.21
Maximal Oxygen Consumption (mL.min-1)
3564.00
Maximal Oxygen Consumption (W.L)
102.97
Maximal Oxygen Consumption (mL.kg.min-1)
47.08


Ventilatory Threshold(vt1) Power (W)
233.00
Ventilatory Threshold (vt1) Power (kg)
3.08
Ventilatory Threshold (vt1) Economy (W.L)
83.69
Ventilatory Threshold (vt1) VO2 (mL.min-1)
2784.00
Ventilatory Threshold (vt1) VO2 (mL.kg.min-1)
36.78
THRESHOLD HEART RATE (vt1) (beats.min-1)
147.00
VT1 (%MMP)
63.49
Ventilatory Threshold(vt1) (% VO2 MAX)
78.11
VT1 (%Max HR)
81


Ventilatory Threshold (vt2) POWER (W)
320.00
Ventilatory Threshold (vt2) POWER (W.kg.min-1)
4.23
Ventilatory Threshold (vt2) Economy (W.L)
92.57
Ventilatory Threshold (vt2) VO2 (mL.min-1)
3457.00
Ventilatory Threshold (vt2) VO2 (mL.kg.min-1)
45.67
Threshold Heart rate (vt2) (beats.min-1)
176.00
VT2 (%MMP)
87.19
VT2 (vt2) (% VO2 MAX)
97.00
VT2(%Max HR)
97.24


Isocapnic Buffering Phase (W)
87.00
Isocapnic Buffering Phase (mL.kg.min-1)
8.89
Hypocapnic Hyperventilation (W)
47.00
Hypocapnic Hyperventilation (mL.kg.min-1)
1.41
Relative Buffering
27.19




At the time of these tests my FTP was ~250 watts and I had completed a 25mile TT in 64:30 and a 10 in 23:50.



So what’s the relationship between FTP and Vo2max? Am I using all of my limited ability? I’ve read several times that Vo2 is trainable what I’m sure any great gains made are usually on the untrained. I will admit to not ever really doing a structered phase of 5min/Vo2 type intervals. What gains can be expected with these?

Assuming my Vo2max won’t shift much is it still possible to get in 300 watt FTP club?



Cheers.
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Old 24-11.-2007, 12:22 AM   #2
Roadie_scum
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Posts: 1,273
Default Re: FTP VO2 max relationship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by morning wood
I had a couple of Vo2max tests a while ago and what they really showed is what shyte athletic ability I have . I scored 47 mL.kg.min-1 and one and 49 on the other. These were carried out at a local university on an SRM stationary bike and gas/blood analysis etc. Results from one of the tests is shown below.



Haematocrit (%)
46.00
Haemoglobin (g/l)
136.00


Lactate 1

Lactate 2



Maximum Heart rate (beats.min-1)
181.00
Maximum Minute Power (W)
367.00
Power:Weight Ration (w.kg.min-1)
4.85
Fitness Index (w.kg.min0.67)
20.21
Maximal Oxygen Consumption (mL.min-1)
3564.00
Maximal Oxygen Consumption (W.L)
102.97
Maximal Oxygen Consumption (mL.kg.min-1)
47.08


Ventilatory Threshold(vt1) Power (W)
233.00
Ventilatory Threshold (vt1) Power (kg)
3.08
Ventilatory Threshold (vt1) Economy (W.L)
83.69
Ventilatory Threshold (vt1) VO2 (mL.min-1)
2784.00
Ventilatory Threshold (vt1) VO2 (mL.kg.min-1)
36.78
THRESHOLD HEART RATE (vt1) (beats.min-1)
147.00
VT1 (%MMP)
63.49
Ventilatory Threshold(vt1) (% VO2 MAX)
78.11
VT1 (%Max HR)
81


Ventilatory Threshold (vt2) POWER (W)
320.00
Ventilatory Threshold (vt2) POWER (W.kg.min-1)
4.23
Ventilatory Threshold (vt2) Economy (W.L)
92.57
Ventilatory Threshold (vt2) VO2 (mL.min-1)
3457.00
Ventilatory Threshold (vt2) VO2 (mL.kg.min-1)
45.67
Threshold Heart rate (vt2) (beats.min-1)
176.00
VT2 (%MMP)
87.19
VT2 (vt2) (% VO2 MAX)
97.00
VT2(%Max HR)
97.24


Isocapnic Buffering Phase (W)
87.00
Isocapnic Buffering Phase (mL.kg.min-1)
8.89
Hypocapnic Hyperventilation (W)
47.00
Hypocapnic Hyperventilation (mL.kg.min-1)
1.41
Relative Buffering
27.19




At the time of these tests my FTP was ~250 watts and I had completed a 25mile TT in 64:30 and a 10 in 23:50.



So what’s the relationship between FTP and Vo2max? Am I using all of my limited ability? I’ve read several times that Vo2 is trainable what I’m sure any great gains made are usually on the untrained. I will admit to not ever really doing a structered phase of 5min/Vo2 type intervals. What gains can be expected with these?

Assuming my Vo2max won’t shift much is it still possible to get in 300 watt FTP club?



Cheers.


Mate, don't worry too much. You just never know how well trained you were when you took the test or how much adaptation you have left. Try hitting some VO2max intervals (search) if you feel like that is your limiter, or if you haven't trained much in this way before, SST/L4 will push your VO2max up too. Only way to know is to try.... have at it!
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Old 24-11.-2007, 12:39 AM   #3
morning wood
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Default Re: FTP VO2 max relationship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadie_scum
Mate, don't worry too much. You just never know how well trained you were when you took the test or how much adaptation you have left. Try hitting some VO2max intervals (search) if you feel like that is your limiter, or if you haven't trained much in this way before, SST/L4 will push your VO2max up too. Only way to know is to try.... have at it!

I think I'm beyond worrying about it but you gotta admit those numbers are pretty pi$$ poor It's not as if I was 'in of the street' and done the tests, at the time I had an FTP~250 so not exactly untrained. Anyway those tests were approximately 18 months ago and in that time I've done a fair amount of FTP type work and you know what my FTP is now? Yep you guessed it ~250 watts As I said I've not really done the 5min/VO2 type workouts so perhaps this is where I need to go as I don't really seem to be absorbing what I've been doing.
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Old 24-11.-2007, 10:52 AM   #4
11ring
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Posts: 331
Default Re: FTP VO2 max relationship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by morning wood
I think I'm beyond worrying about it but you gotta admit those numbers are pretty pi$$ poor It's not as if I was 'in of the street' and done the tests, at the time I had an FTP~250 so not exactly untrained. Anyway those tests were approximately 18 months ago and in that time I've done a fair amount of FTP type work and you know what my FTP is now? Yep you guessed it ~250 watts As I said I've not really done the 5min/VO2 type workouts so perhaps this is where I need to go as I don't really seem to be absorbing what I've been doing.
I blame the parents

It is quite clear looking at the numbers that your good FTP power is a result of training not massive natural ability. You threshold occurs at a high % of vo2max and your efficiency is pretty good, both indicate a pretty high level of aerobic conditioning. I would not expect any further significant gains in FTP without also raising your Vo2max.

Also, it is a bit confusing comparing FTP and Vo2max in ml/min/kg as FTP is not scaled by weight. You should be comparing Vo2max in L/min to FTP and Vo2 max in ml/min/kg to watts/kg.

There is another thread with some data on this. I will find it and post a link,
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Old 24-11.-2007, 10:56 AM   #5
11ring
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Default Re: FTP VO2 max relationship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11ring
It is quite clear looking at the numbers that your good FTP power is a result of training not massive natural ability. You threshold occurs at a high % of vo2max and your efficiency is pretty good, both indicate a pretty high level of aerobic conditioning. I would not expect any further significant gains in FTP without also raising your Vo2max.

Also, it is a bit confusing comparing FTP and Vo2max in ml/min/kg as FTP is not scaled by weight. You should be comparing Vo2max in L/min to FTP and Vo2 max in ml/min/kg to watts/kg.

There is another thread with some data on this. I will find it and post a link,

See http://www.cyclingforums.com.au/t401887.html
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Old 24-11.-2007, 11:51 AM   #6
Spunout
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Default Re: FTP VO2 max relationship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11ring
It is quite clear looking at the numbers that your good FTP power is a result of training not massive natural ability. You threshold occurs at a high % of vo2max and your efficiency is pretty good, both indicate a pretty high level of aerobic conditioning.

Would it be at all possible to consider that high VT% of V02Max suggest OP is running on genetics (high HCr) and does not train enough?
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Old 25-11.-2007, 01:15 AM   #7
morning wood
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Default Re: FTP VO2 max relationship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11ring
It is quite clear looking at the numbers that your good FTP power is a result of training not massive natural ability. You threshold occurs at a high % of vo2max and your efficiency is pretty good, both indicate a pretty high level of aerobic conditioning. I would not expect any further significant gains in FTP without also raising your Vo2max.

Also, it is a bit confusing comparing FTP and Vo2max in ml/min/kg as FTP is not scaled by weight. You should be comparing Vo2max in L/min to FTP and Vo2 max in ml/min/kg to watts/kg.

There is another thread with some data on this. I will find it and post a link,

Thanks for the response and the link. It was actually that thread that prompted the question but I didn't want to hijack it.
Well I'm gonna include a structured plan of VO2 type intervals and see where that gets me. I doubt I'll have another VO2max test but I'll monitor my FTP and do the odd ramp test using the same protocol as the VO2max test and see at what level/power I bomb out.
Point taken about the comparison of the particular units etc.
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Old 25-11.-2007, 01:20 AM   #8
morning wood
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Default Re: FTP VO2 max relationship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunout
Would it be at all possible to consider that high VT% of V02Max suggest OP is running on genetics (high HCr) and does not train enough?

I've put the time in but I'm wondering if it's at the correct levels of intensity. Is this what you mean?
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