Need a pro advice - How to improve from here.. ?

noamporat

Hi,
I would like to consult how to improve from my current fitness:
I am nearly 46 y.o. , riding almost 4 years, of which the last 2 are more serious; Lately due to work circumstances, except for the weekend my cycling training is all indoor (usually late evening ); using a TACX Swing and a Polar power output I try to practice highest Wattage average for certain durations; longest is 30 min, but also 20, 10 and such.
My best performance thus far has been Avg. 353W for 30 minutes and a couple of weeks earlier I did 347W for the same duration.
[U]THE LAST ONE WAS[/U]:
Power Avg. 353W
Start HR 148
Finish HR 184
Avg HR 176 (of measured 191Max)
CAD 83
12 min insufficient warmup

THE FORMER ONE:
Power Avg. 347
Start HR 152
Finish HR 177
Avg HR 166 !!
CAD 81
As far as I understand my physiology, the higher the Cadence I go, the higher the HR I reach, and I think that HR is my bottle-neck (and not legs).
Finishing at 184 HR is sort of hard and I cannot stay there for too long.

I wonder what workouts should I practice in order to ramp to.. say 370 or maybe more.

Thanks.
Noam
B.t.w - half a year ago I could not go above 300 for 20 minutes, on a real hill, including off-the-saddle work while the above indoor are all seated, - so I don’t complain J

daveryanwyoming

Heart rate isn't your bottleneck, it's a response to your workload but not the limiter. Short of a massive coronary folk's don't fatigue or run out of steam because their heart's get tired. Based on the power levels you're able to sustain for long intervals and your description of your progress you've long since passed the intial increase in heart stroke volume that happens early in the training process.

The primary long term contributions to aerobic fitness include greater capillary densities in and around your working muscles and greater mitochondrial densities in the key muscle groups. Both of these long term adaptations are centered in the working muscles, not your heart or lungs. Stick with the long steady efforts, think about some VO2 max work either in periodic blocks or as a preseason phase. Balance intensity and overall training load with SST work and keep training steadily to encourage the developement of dense capillary beds and greater mitochondrial densities.

I don't know what you weigh, but those are impressive power numbers. Keep up the good work and continue to challenge both your sustainable intensity and your overall training load. Get a power meter if it's in the budget and track your training with CyclingPeaks WKO+ it's worth it for the Performance Manager alone at the kind of levels you've reached. If you're really serious hire a power savvy coach like Alex or Ric.

Good luck,
-Dave

VS1

Thanks Dave.

noamporat

Thank you Dave!
My weight is 72 kg
I want to believe that the POLAR power output readings are reliable..
Noam

Alex Simmons

Thanks for the plug Dave!

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Alex Simmons

When you download, does the power data from trainer workout look like a smooth power line or is it highly variable/all over the place?

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noamporat

Thanks Alex,
I'll send you a jpg (print screen of it) ina few minutes
Noam

noamporat

I added on excel the % from max HR
time HR CAD Watts
00:12:25 77% 148 77 304
00:12:30 78% 149 81 324
00:12:35 80% 152 83 333
00:12:40 81% 154 83 340
00:12:45 81% 154 83 321
00:12:50 81% 155 85 342
00:12:55 81% 155 85 351
00:13:00 82% 156 84 346
00:13:05 82% 157 84 340
00:13:10 82% 157 85 343
00:13:15 83% 158 86 328
00:13:20 83% 158 85 309
00:13:25 82% 157 87 331
00:13:30 82% 156 88 328
00:13:35 81% 155 87 329
00:13:40 81% 154 86 312
00:13:45 81% 154 85 306
00:13:50 81% 154 89 323
00:13:55 81% 155 84 348
00:14:00 82% 156 81 354
00:14:05 82% 157 83 363
00:14:10 83% 158 81 359
00:14:15 83% 159 80 341
00:14:20 83% 159 82 345
00:14:25 84% 160 80 335
00:14:30 84% 160 80 349
00:14:35 84% 161 80 322
00:14:40 84% 161 81 330
00:14:45 84% 160 83 343
00:14:50 84% 161 81 338
00:14:55 85% 162 81 318
00:15:00 86% 164 83 355
00:15:05 86% 164 82 344
00:15:10 86% 165 83 359
00:15:15 87% 166 82 359
00:15:20 87% 166 82 344
00:15:25 87% 167 83 351
00:15:30 88% 168 82 357
00:15:35 88% 168 81 337
00:15:40 88% 168 81 351
00:15:45 88% 168 84 337
00:15:50 88% 168 81 342
00:15:55 88% 168 84 347
00:16:00 88% 168 83 345
00:16:05 88% 168 83 344
00:16:10 88% 169 83 324
00:16:15 88% 169 81 335
00:16:20 88% 169 83 371
00:16:25 88% 169 82 349
00:16:30 88% 169 82 352
00:16:35 88% 169 84 352
00:16:40 88% 168 80 331
00:16:45 88% 169 81 337
00:16:50 88% 168 79 347
00:16:55 88% 169 83 356
00:17:00 89% 170 86 364
00:17:05 90% 171 85 346
00:17:10 90% 171 87 360
00:17:15 90% 172 86 393
00:17:20 90% 171 84 359
00:17:25 90% 171 83 378
00:17:30 90% 171 83 357
00:17:35 90% 171 82 352
00:17:40 90% 172 81 351
00:17:45 91% 173 81 332
00:17:50 91% 173 81 340
00:17:55 91% 173 78 343
00:18:00 90% 172 82 340
00:18:05 90% 172 80 338
00:18:10 90% 172 84 352
00:18:15 90% 172 83 354
00:18:20 91% 174 82 350
00:18:25 92% 175 81 338
00:18:30 92% 176 81 346
00:18:35 92% 175 82 329
00:18:40 92% 175 83 348
00:18:45 92% 175 83 361
00:18:50 92% 175 85 364
00:18:55 92% 175 84 354
00:19:00 92% 176 86 390
00:19:05 92% 176 84 345
00:19:10 92% 176 84 338
00:19:15 92% 175 86 364
00:19:20 92% 175 86 370
00:19:25 92% 176 86 376
00:19:30 92% 176 85 373
00:19:35 92% 176 85 370
00:19:40 92% 176 85 351
00:19:45 92% 176 85 366
00:19:50 92% 175 84 344
00:19:55 92% 175 85 366
00:20:00 92% 175 86 389
00:20:05 92% 175 86 361
00:20:10 92% 176 84 341
00:20:15 92% 176 85 383
00:20:20 92% 176 85 369
00:20:25 92% 176 84 372
00:20:30 93% 177 83 333
00:20:35 93% 177 83 355
00:20:40 93% 177 81 337
00:20:45 93% 177 80 341
00:20:50 92% 176 82 339
00:20:55 92% 176 82 342
00:21:00 92% 176 85 362
00:21:05 92% 176 84 364
00:21:10 92% 176 83 339
00:21:15 92% 176 85 360
00:21:20 93% 177 85 338
00:21:25 93% 178 87 358
00:21:30 93% 178 84 372
00:21:35 93% 177 84 350
00:21:40 92% 176 84 353
00:21:45 92% 176 83 358
00:21:50 92% 175 84 344
00:21:55 92% 175 85 360
00:22:00 92% 175 85 374
00:22:05 92% 175 85 380
00:22:10 92% 175 86 385
00:22:15 91% 174 86 386
00:22:20 91% 174 84 343
00:22:25 91% 174 86 359
00:22:30 91% 174 81 324
00:22:35 92% 175 83 365
00:22:40 92% 175 81 351
00:22:45 92% 175 81 351
00:22:50 92% 175 84 367
00:22:55 92% 175 83 348
00:23:00 92% 176 83 329
00:23:05 92% 176 85 347
00:23:10 93% 177 84 354
00:23:15 93% 178 83 344
00:23:20 93% 178 87 356
00:23:25 93% 178 85 387
00:23:30 94% 179 86 381
00:23:35 94% 179 86 377
00:23:40 94% 179 85 371
00:23:45 94% 179 86 367
00:23:50 94% 179 84 362
00:23:55 94% 179 85 354
00:24:00 93% 178 84 360
00:24:05 94% 179 83 340
00:24:10 94% 179 85 361
00:24:15 94% 179 83 350
00:24:20 93% 178 84 353
00:24:25 93% 177 84 350
00:24:30 93% 177 84 383
00:24:35 93% 177 83 346
00:24:40 93% 177 83 379
00:24:45 93% 177 81 346
00:24:50 93% 177 82 350
00:24:55 92% 176 84 347
00:25:00 92% 176 84 358
00:25:05 92% 176 84 342
00:25:10 92% 175 84 341
00:25:15 92% 175 82 332
00:25:20 91% 174 85 352
00:25:25 92% 175 85 351
00:25:30 92% 176 87 334
00:25:35 93% 177 85 361
00:25:40 93% 178 84 361
00:25:45 93% 178 84 361
00:25:50 94% 179 84 332
00:25:55 94% 179 82 353
00:26:00 94% 179 83 363
00:26:05 94% 179 82 330
00:26:10 93% 178 84 345
00:26:15 93% 178 82 332
00:26:20 93% 178 82 352
00:26:25 93% 178 85 375
00:26:30 93% 178 85 346
00:26:35 93% 178 84 369
00:26:40 93% 178 85 375
00:26:45 93% 178 85 359
00:26:50 93% 178 84 375
00:26:55 93% 178 84 367
00:27:00 93% 178 82 347
00:27:05 93% 177 84 373
00:27:10 93% 177 83 364
00:27:15 93% 177 82 351
00:27:20 93% 177 83 354
00:27:25 93% 177 83 355
00:27:30 93% 177 81 344
00:27:35 93% 177 82 344
00:27:40 93% 178 79 333
00:27:45 93% 178 82 343
00:27:50 93% 177 83 371
00:27:55 92% 176 83 354
00:28:00 93% 177 86 362
00:28:05 93% 177 84 352
00:28:10 93% 178 85 366
00:28:15 93% 178 85 362
00:28:20 93% 177 86 374
00:28:25 93% 177 83 361
00:28:30 93% 178 84 356
00:28:35 93% 177 82 334
00:28:40 93% 177 82 350
00:28:45 93% 177 83 327
00:28:50 92% 176 83 341
00:28:55 93% 177 84 338
00:29:00 93% 177 85 354
00:29:05 93% 177 86 362
00:29:10 93% 177 83 359
00:29:15 93% 177 85 382
00:29:20 94% 179 84 375
00:29:25 94% 179 80 338
00:29:30 93% 178 79 346
00:29:35 94% 179 81 375
00:29:40 93% 178 79 345
00:29:45 94% 179 83 350
00:29:50 94% 179 81 329
00:29:55 94% 180 81 352
00:30:00 94% 180 81 339
00:30:05 94% 179 82 348
00:30:10 93% 178 81 340
00:30:15 93% 178 81 339
00:30:20 93% 178 83 356
00:30:25 93% 178 81 339
00:30:30 94% 179 82 358
00:30:35 94% 179 80 329
00:30:40 94% 179 83 339
00:30:45 94% 179 81 342
00:30:50 94% 179 84 342
00:30:55 94% 179 83 332
00:31:00 94% 179 84 349
00:31:05 94% 179 84 356
00:31:10 93% 178 84 368
00:31:15 93% 178 84 378
00:31:20 93% 178 84 392
00:31:25 93% 177 84 351
00:31:30 93% 177 84 343
00:31:35 93% 177 83 344
00:31:40 93% 177 83 352
00:31:45 93% 178 85 359
00:31:50 94% 179 84 349
00:31:55 93% 178 85 372
00:32:00 93% 178 82 367
00:32:05 93% 178 81 347
00:32:10 93% 178 83 340
00:32:15 93% 178 83 354
00:32:20 93% 178 81 335
00:32:25 93% 177 81 357
00:32:30 93% 177 82 358
00:32:35 92% 176 80 340
00:32:40 92% 176 82 333
00:32:45 92% 176 84 369
00:32:50 92% 176 84 363
00:32:55 93% 178 85 371
00:33:00 94% 179 83 367
00:33:05 94% 180 83 351
00:33:10 95% 181 83 337
00:33:15 95% 181 81 342
00:33:20 94% 180 83 344
00:33:25 94% 180 84 371
00:33:30 94% 180 80 352
00:33:35 94% 179 78 348
00:33:40 94% 179 81 335
00:33:45 94% 179 81 326
00:33:50 94% 180 84 347
00:33:55 94% 180 83 407
00:34:00 95% 181 82 384
00:34:05 95% 181 82 346
00:34:10 95% 181 83 346
00:34:15 95% 181 84 377
00:34:20 95% 181 82 373
00:34:25 94% 180 82 379
00:34:30 93% 178 82 336
00:34:35 93% 178 82 361
00:34:40 94% 179 83 357
00:34:45 94% 180 83 374
00:34:50 94% 180 83 357
00:34:55 95% 181 85 369
00:35:00 95% 181 83 339
00:35:05 95% 181 84 349
00:35:10 95% 181 84 345
00:35:15 94% 180 85 333
00:35:20 94% 180 87 374
00:35:25 94% 180 85 362
00:35:30 94% 180 82 336
00:35:35 95% 181 84 363
00:35:40 95% 181 83 367
00:35:45 95% 181 82 347
00:35:50 94% 180 78 321
00:35:55 94% 180 82 344
00:36:00 94% 180 82 357
00:36:05 94% 180 82 356
00:36:10 94% 180 82 352
00:36:15 95% 181 83 335
00:36:20 95% 181 86 336
00:36:25 95% 181 85 322
00:36:30 95% 181 85 370
00:36:35 95% 181 84 378
00:36:40 95% 181 82 356
00:36:45 95% 181 84 360
00:36:50 95% 181 84 379
00:36:55 95% 181 86 372
00:37:00 95% 182 83 378
00:37:05 95% 182 82 373
00:37:10 95% 182 82 363
00:37:15 95% 181 83 341
00:37:20 95% 181 81 342
00:37:25 95% 181 85 342
00:37:30 95% 181 83 346
00:37:35 95% 182 84 360
00:37:40 95% 181 84 351
00:37:45 95% 181 85 348
00:37:50 95% 181 84 361
00:37:55 95% 181 83 351
00:38:00 95% 182 83 335
00:38:05 95% 181 83 338
00:38:10 94% 180 84 374
00:38:15 94% 180 84 359
00:38:20 95% 181 82 356
00:38:25 95% 181 81 328
00:38:30 95% 181 83 361
00:38:35 95% 181 84 351
00:38:40 95% 181 84 350
00:38:45 95% 181 84 378
00:38:50 95% 181 81 354
00:38:55 95% 181 81 351
00:39:00 95% 181 81 350
00:39:05 95% 181 80 339
00:39:10 95% 182 77 348
00:39:15 95% 181 78 322
00:39:20 95% 181 80 341
00:39:25 95% 181 82 373
00:39:30 95% 181 81 365
00:39:35 95% 182 82 351
00:39:40 95% 182 83 371
00:39:45 95% 181 83 382
00:39:50 95% 181 81 331
00:39:55 95% 181 81 331
00:40:00 95% 182 82 351
00:40:05 96% 183 85 372
00:40:10 96% 183 84 382
00:40:15 96% 183 83 359
00:40:20 96% 183 83 351
00:40:25 95% 182 83 363
00:40:30 96% 183 84 386
00:40:35 95% 182 84 365
00:40:40 95% 182 82 350
00:40:45 95% 182 84 347
00:40:50 95% 182 81 356
00:40:55 96% 183 81 372
00:41:00 95% 182 83 365
00:41:05 95% 182 81 387
00:41:10 95% 181 81 359
00:41:15 95% 181 81 340
00:41:20 95% 181 85 371
00:41:25 95% 181 82 345
00:41:30 95% 181 83 365
00:41:35 95% 181 82 329
00:41:40 95% 181 85 365
00:41:45 95% 182 86 362
00:41:50 96% 183 85 360
00:41:55 96% 183 84 345
00:42:00 96% 183 85 369
00:42:05 96% 183 85 358
00:42:10 96% 183 89 395
00:42:15 96% 183 93 402
00:42:20 96% 183 94 396
00:42:25 96% 184 95 419
00:42:30 96% 184 97 421

noamporat

and here's a print of the graph

Attached Thumbnails

 

noamporat

the reason for a 407 right after (5 sec sampling) a 347 is my urge to 'correct'..

00:33:40 94% 179 81 335
00:33:45 94% 179 81 326
00:33:50 94% 180 84 347
00:33:55 94% 180 83 407
00:34:00 95% 181 82 384

Alex Simmons

Power is the black line right? Look OK. So the only other things to check are correct parameters for chain stay length and chain weight are entered into the polar's set up (I think that's what you enter isn't it?).

If you have used an estimated weight, then suggest you get it weighed on an accurate scale - like at a post office.

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Alex Simmons

BTW - what category do you race - or what times have you done in a TT of late? That might also be a guide as to whether you really are a rider with an FTP approaching 5W/kg (Cat 1) or we should treat the data with suspicion.

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noamporat

Yes, Power is the black line;
Chain weight and length have been measured precisely (I do that every time that I replace a chain - have a a gigital scale at home) - chainstay as well.

As to your last question.. I never raced. (I am planned to ride with a rider who has been Israel's elite no 1 on-and-off in the last 3 years.. see what he says..

noamporat

I'll measure a certain hill, this or next weekend and will post its length/%slope, time, wattage.. I guess that can give an indication right?