Tips for adult first time rider

Travis

Hi, a family member who has managed to reach 40 without ever having
ridden a bike recently approached me for help with this. She's very
short statured and required a kid's bike, to which I've attached
training wheels suitably modified and beefed up to work with the
medium size wheels on this bike. (Out of the box training wheels seem
to assume that the bike they're to be fitted to will be for a toddler
at most, they're tiny.)

Anyway, lessons haven't been going well. If I don't maintain an iron
grip on the handlebars while running along side she's instantly off
course and out of control. In effect she's not much more than a
passenger of a bike which I am in control of.

I'm not prepared to concede that some people are just unteachable and
that there is no hope whatsoever of her learning to ride a bike, so if
anyone has any coaching tips which don't involve too much risk of
injury I'd like to hear them!

If this works, there will be one less car...

Thanks

Travis

Skewer

Travis wrote:
> Hi, a family member who has managed to reach 40 without ever having
> ridden a bike recently approached me for help with this. She's very
> short statured and required a kid's bike, to which I've attached
> training wheels suitably modified and beefed up to work with the
> medium size wheels on this bike. (Out of the box training wheels seem
> to assume that the bike they're to be fitted to will be for a toddler
> at most, they're tiny.)
>
> Anyway, lessons haven't been going well. If I don't maintain an iron
> grip on the handlebars while running along side she's instantly off
> course and out of control. In effect she's not much more than a
> passenger of a bike which I am in control of.
>
> I'm not prepared to concede that some people are just unteachable and
> that there is no hope whatsoever of her learning to ride a bike, so if
> anyone has any coaching tips which don't involve too much risk of
> injury I'd like to hear them!
>
> If this works, there will be one less car...
>
> Thanks
>
> Travis

Travis

Maybe part of the problem is that she is being asked to learn too many
things (balancing/steering/pedaling/braking) in one go. Add to that not
trying to look foolish and a natural fear of possible injury.

So, make the task simpler.
Take the pedals off and lower the seat so she can comfortably put both
feet flat on the ground. Let her then scoot around on level ground,
preferably grass, so she can concentrate on just balance & steering.

Google points to advice here.
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/i...hp/t-94540.html
as well there is the A.B archive
2.2.3 How do you teach an adult to ride?
http://thehippy.net/Cycling/a_b_faq.htm#Sect2.1.3

--
--
Pete.B

Zebee Johnstone

In aus.bicycle on Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:12:26 GMT
Skewer <Thiscantwork@example.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe part of the problem is that she is being asked to learn too many
> things (balancing/steering/pedaling/braking) in one go. Add to that not
> trying to look foolish and a natural fear of possible injury.

Agreed. And I think most women react differently to the chance of
injury than most men.

(As someone on aus.moto said, the bloke falls off, is shocked, but 12
seconds later he's thinking of sex again...)

So scooting with the feet as suggested so there's a lot of control is
good, but maybe do it on grass which is a lot less scary.

Zebee

Bleve

On Jan 20, 3:12 am, Skewer <Thiscantw...@example.com> wrote:
> Travis wrote:
> > Hi, a family member who has managed to reach 40 without ever having
> > ridden a bike recently approached me for help with this. She's very
> > short statured and required a kid's bike, to which I've attached
> > training wheels suitably modified and beefed up to work with the
> > medium size wheels on this bike. (Out of the box training wheels seem
> > to assume that the bike they're to be fitted to will be for a toddler
> > at most, they're tiny.)
>
> > Anyway, lessons haven't been going well. If I don't maintain an iron
> > grip on the handlebars while running along side she's instantly off
> > course and out of control. In effect she's not much more than a
> > passenger of a bike which I am in control of.
>
> > I'm not prepared to concede that some people are just unteachable and
> > that there is no hope whatsoever of her learning to ride a bike, so if
> > anyone has any coaching tips which don't involve too much risk of
> > injury I'd like to hear them!
>
> > If this works, there will be one less car...
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Travis
>
> Travis
>
> Maybe part of the problem is that she is being asked to learn too many
> things (balancing/steering/pedaling/braking) in one go. Add to that not
> trying to look foolish and a natural fear of possible injury.
>
> So, make the task simpler.
> Take the pedals off and lower the seat so she can comfortably put both
> feet flat on the ground. Let her then scoot around on level ground,
> preferably grass, so she can concentrate on just balance & steering.
>
> Google points to advice here.http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/i...hp/t-94540.html
> as well there is the A.B archive
> 2.2.3 How do you teach an adult to ride?http://thehippy.net/Cycling/a_b_faq.htm#Sect2.1.3

agreed, ditch the trainer wheels (they don't help), off with the
pedals and learn to balance rolling down a very gentle hill on grass.
The rest is easy.

>
> --
> --
> Pete.B

David Springthorpe

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:47:23 -0800 (PST), Bleve <carl.I.brewer@gmail.com> wrote:


>agreed, ditch the trainer wheels (they don't help), off with the
>pedals and learn to balance rolling down a very gentle hill on grass.
>The rest is easy.

As easy as learning to ride a bike ?

Martin

David Springthorpe wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:47:23 -0800 (PST), Bleve <carl.I.brewer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> agreed, ditch the trainer wheels (they don't help), off with the
>> pedals and learn to balance rolling down a very gentle hill on grass.
>> The rest is easy.
>
> As easy as learning to ride a bike ?

Riding a bike not trivial - it is similar to rocket science. The control
algorithms the brain has to learn are similar to the algorithms used to
control and steer a rocket, but fortunately on a bike we have to deal
with only one dimension. As previous a poster said if you fall to the
left you have to steer to the left to correct the fall. But if you want
to turn to the left you have to first steer to the right to start
yourself and the bike falling to the left, then steer to the left to
prevent a fall and control the turn.

I agree that training wheels are probably not a good idea. I would make
sure the rider can easily and quickly put both feet on the ground at the
same time but leave the pedals on (assuming they are simple flat pedals
with no toe clips etc). As soon as she has the confidence to ride a
short distance without putting her feet on the ground she must have
somewhere to put them. That confidence will come after the Nth try. She
will also be able to try with one foot on a pedal and the other out to
prevent a fall. When your only contact with the bike is the saddle and
the handle bars it is difficult to have good control of the bike. The
pedals are a third point of contact with the bike and allow much better
control.

Good luck!

Martin

--
Removed z before replying by email.

TimC

On 2008-01-20, Martin (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> David Springthorpe wrote:
>> As easy as learning to ride a bike ?
>
> Riding a bike not trivial - it is similar to rocket science. The control
> algorithms the brain has to learn are similar to the algorithms used to
> control and steer a rocket, but fortunately on a bike we have to deal
> with only one dimension.

Down?

> As previous a poster said if you fall to the
> left you have to steer to the left to correct the fall. But if you want
> to turn to the left you have to first steer to the right to start
> yourself and the bike falling to the left, then steer to the left to
> prevent a fall and control the turn.

I've seen a youtube video of a motorcyclist (sorry, person on a
motorcycle) unambiguously counter-steering.

And I've tried it on my bike, with different results. I am yet to
remain convinced that you can counter-steer on a bicycle.

--
TimC
We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
-- Pink Floyd, Another Brick in the Wall

Martin

TimC wrote:
> On 2008-01-20, Martin (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> David Springthorpe wrote:
>>> As easy as learning to ride a bike ?
>> Riding a bike not trivial - it is similar to rocket science. The control
>> algorithms the brain has to learn are similar to the algorithms used to
>> control and steer a rocket, but fortunately on a bike we have to deal
>> with only one dimension.
>
> Down?

Sort of. We can fall to the left or to the right. Rockets can fall
forwards and backwards as well. Unicyclists have to deal with both
dimensions. They deal with forwards and backwards balancing by adjusting
the torque on the pedals.

>> As previous a poster said if you fall to the
>> left you have to steer to the left to correct the fall. But if you want
>> to turn to the left you have to first steer to the right to start
>> yourself and the bike falling to the left, then steer to the left to
>> prevent a fall and control the turn.
>
> I've seen a youtube video of a motorcyclist (sorry, person on a
> motorcycle) unambiguously counter-steering.
>
> And I've tried it on my bike, with different results. I am yet to
> remain convinced that you can counter-steer on a bicycle.

Try riding no hands on a flat (empty) road. Then *gently* apply forward
pressure to one side of your bars. If you push the bars forward on the
right side (i.e. turn your bars to the left), you will find yourself and
your bike turning to the right.

Martin

--
Removed z before replying by email.

TimC

On 2008-01-20, Martin (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> TimC wrote:
>> I've seen a youtube video of a motorcyclist (sorry, person on a
>> motorcycle) unambiguously counter-steering.
>>
>> And I've tried it on my bike, with different results. I am yet to
>> remain convinced that you can counter-steer on a bicycle.
>
> Try riding no hands on a flat (empty) road. Then *gently* apply forward
> pressure to one side of your bars. If you push the bars forward on the
> right side (i.e. turn your bars to the left), you will find yourself and
> your bike turning to the right.

That's exactly what I tried. Fortunately, I was prepared for falling
to the left.

That's why I have trouble staying upright on the bike. Anti-gravity Tim.

Heh heh. Tee hee hee. I swear I did not prompt siggy in any way. He
chose it himself:

--
TimC
I am not afraid of heights, nor am I scared of falling. Height and
falling have never hurt anyone. Now the ground. The ground is a
different matter... --unknown

Zebee Johnstone

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 20 Jan 2008 03:57:16 GMT
Martin <mjturnerz@usydz.edu.auz> wrote:
>
> Try riding no hands on a flat (empty) road. Then *gently* apply forward
> pressure to one side of your bars. If you push the bars forward on the
> right side (i.e. turn your bars to the left), you will find yourself and
> your bike turning to the right.

I find it makes more intuitive (and body feel) sense to think of it as
pushing the bars down on the side I want to go.

Yes, the push is really forward, but it *feels* like it's down.

Coasting along (so no pedal steer) at about 15kmh (because counter
steering only comes into play over walking speed) take one hand off
the bars and use one finger of the other hand to take a left hand
turn, and the same finger to take a right hand turn. Feel what
direction the pressure you are using is going.

Zebee

Duracell Bunny

Travis wrote:
> Hi, a family member who has managed to reach 40 without ever having
> ridden a bike recently approached me for help with this. She's very
> short statured and required a kid's bike, to which I've attached
> training wheels suitably modified and beefed up to work with the
> medium size wheels on this bike. (Out of the box training wheels seem
> to assume that the bike they're to be fitted to will be for a toddler
> at most, they're tiny.)
>
> Anyway, lessons haven't been going well. If I don't maintain an iron
> grip on the handlebars while running along side she's instantly off
> course and out of control. In effect she's not much more than a
> passenger of a bike which I am in control of.
>
> I'm not prepared to concede that some people are just unteachable and
> that there is no hope whatsoever of her learning to ride a bike, so if
> anyone has any coaching tips which don't involve too much risk of
> injury I'd like to hear them!
>
> If this works, there will be one less car...
>
> Thanks
>
> Travis

How about trying them as the stoker on a tandem for a while? Might help, you
never know ...

DB

--
Karen

If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.'
Catherine Aird

TimC

On 2008-01-20, TimC (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> On 2008-01-20, Martin (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> Try riding no hands on a flat (empty) road. Then *gently* apply forward
>> pressure to one side of your bars. If you push the bars forward on the
>> right side (i.e. turn your bars to the left), you will find yourself and
>> your bike turning to the right.
>
> That's exactly what I tried. Fortunately, I was prepared for falling
> to the left.

Well, I just tried again, this time successfully. Who woulda thunk
physics is correct?

--
TimC
Chairman: We continue with an afternoon of numerical stimulations.
-- An astronomy talk

Theo Bekkers

TimC wrote:

> I've seen a youtube video of a motorcyclist (sorry, person on a
> motorcycle) unambiguously counter-steering.
>
> And I've tried it on my bike, with different results. I am yet to
> remain convinced that you can counter-steer on a bicycle.

I'm convinced you can't steer it any other way. It's not optional.

Theo

TimC

On 2008-01-20, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> TimC wrote:
>
>> I've seen a youtube video of a motorcyclist (sorry, person on a
>> motorcycle) unambiguously counter-steering.
>>
>> And I've tried it on my bike, with different results. I am yet to
>> remain convinced that you can counter-steer on a bicycle.
>
> I'm convinced you can't steer it any other way. It's not optional.

What about below 15km/h, as I think it was Zebee, said?

How do I turn when I a have no hands on the handlebars (not that I
would do that, your honour)?

Note that gyroscopic action is not what causes a bike to stay upright
too - you can have two identical wheels rotating in the opposite
direction as well as your two wheels contacting the ground, and still
be able to balance your bike.

--
TimC
"If geiger counter does not click, the coffee, she is just not thick."
-- Pitr Dubovich, User Friendly