BB Questions

Fujiman

Installing FSA SLK Carbon crank set and the left crank arm will not go all the way on the splines of the spindle? so I have a gap between the arm and the BB cup, BB is Megaexo I would assume the arm should go all the way on the splines? I am really frustrated!!!
Also does anyone know what the Green piece that looks like a cup or possible shim is for? It came in the box with the crankset.

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alfeng

There should NOT be any gap to speak of ... maybe a HALF of a millimeter!

I don't want to state what may/should be obvious, but you have to loosen BOTH bolts on the end of the non-driveside crank arm. I can't imagine another reason why the arm wouldn't go all the way onto the spindle ... but, maybe I don't know what your idea of a gap is ...


That green "cup" has no known (to me) value ... and, someone else will have to tell you why they include it -- the only thing I can imagine, which is NOT advised, is if you were to set the frame on its side while pressing the driveside into the BB then you would set the non-driveside cup into the green plastic cup while it is on the "ground" ... BUT, it really shouldn't take that so much effort to slide the spindle into the BB that you would need/want to lay the bike on its side.

Fujiman

The non-drive side crank arm does not have 2 bolts, like my omega the slk has a splined insert that slides over the spindle then a retaining bolt that holds the arm on.

__________________
Send Lawyers Guns and Money-The Shit has Hit the Fan!! (Warren Zevon) RIP
If you care to watch his Video here's a link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5puAN1PGQw

alfeng

Of course, sorry ...

Regardless, there shouldn't be very much (if any!) space between the non-driveside arm & the BB cup.

Just how much of a gap is there?

This may NOT be applicable, but can you slide the arm on inside-out (the way you can with an alloy arm) so you can check to see if there are any obstructions in the receiving grooves for the splines which are not obvious when you put the arm on the right way, or do the receiving grooves stop before reaching the outer end of the insert in the arm?

sideshow_bob

typical garbage advice alfeng of stuff you have never used and never set your hands upon.

the 'green disc' is a shell spacer. it goes between the left cup and the bb shell. if you install this it'll remove the gap that you have noted. some frames require the spacer, some don't. some need the spacer to fit the center sleeve, but then you can't fit the arm properly without removing eithe one or both of the blue seal washers.

personally i use shimano cups on one bike, simply because at the time FSA in italian weren't widely available. it doesn't require the spacer. i use an FSA on another bike that does need it, it looked shit (being bright green and all), so i substituted in a black spacer from shimano mtb cups which works just fine.

--brett

alfeng

Right, the only carbon crank I have is an old ISIS crank ... but, I have several MegaExo & Hollowtech II cranks.
You've got to be kidding with regard to sleeving the 'green cup' over the BB to make up the gap ... its much more than 2mm thick between the inside face & the outside face.

There's no way that 'green cup' that FSA includes will sleeve over a BB shell, regardless ... the 'green disc' you/(Brett) are referring to is not what Fujiman was referring to.

BTW. If you only put a spacer on the non-drive side of an external bearing BB, then the crank arms will not be equidistant from the centerline of the bike since you will more-than-likely be bumping the non-driveside crankarm out by whatever the thickness of the spacer is.

sideshow_bob

the plastic disc goes over the threads of the cup and fits flush between the inside wall of the cup and the shell face.

http://road.fullspeedahead.com/down...gaExoCarbon.pdf

Page 3, look at the 'road' image. Part 5, install the rubber shell spacer.

Do you see one on the drive side?

it's 1.5 mm give or take. you don't notice the any difference.

shimano mtb cups require 2 spacers on non-drive, 1 on the non-drive. again makes no difference.

--brett

alfeng

You're working WAY TOO HARD to justify your earlier mis-reading of the OP's query about the 'green cup' ...

You gladly nitpick my remakrs, so shouldn't you anticipate reciprocal scrutiny for what you say?

Tsk. Tsk.

Go find Swansong (sic) & have a pajama party, or something.

sideshow_bob

ha ha ha ... you've been called out again for bullshitting the forum alfeng and here come the hysterics.

it's really a bit of a no brainer, but unsurprisingly a guy who seems to know better than the engineering teams of campag, sram etc etc can't figure it out.

here i'll give you the remedial version. crank is not going all the way down the spline, cause the bolt is bottoming out. it means the spindle is too long, it's shortened relative to the bottom bracket by making the bottom bracket wider. you make it wider by installing (as per the manufacturers instructions) the green plastic washer between the shell face and the cup.

why is this required? probably so they only have to make one spindle length for both english and italian bb's. remarkably the spacer is right about the same thickness as the difference between 68 and 70mm.

you can now go and have a good lie down alf.

-brett

alfeng

You know, if you (or, others) want to continue to embrace SRAM's shifters, well good-on-yah ... as I said before, SRAM knew it was a flawed design when the started to market it, as witnessed by the introduction of the RED group ... but, for those who wanted to, or continue to want to pay a premium for it, so be it. Conspicuous consumption certainly has its place in the cycling world as well as in other walks of life.

Didn't SRAM also abandon the GXP BB with the RED group, too?!?

Gears-are-gears, and any gear can be stripped under the wrong circumstances ... a small number of people have apparently had problems with their UT cranks which may be unrelated to the Hirth coupling, so it isn't quite as perfect as you would like to think, regardless.

Since you still don't know OR want to admit what "dwell" is in Shimano shifters, there's not much to say about it. But, if you manage to use the Forum's search, you will see that the work-around is to pre-shift before going uphill OR to dump onto a granny ... of course, for Flatlanders, it isn't a factor.

I seriously doubt that Shimano's electronic shifters continue to incorporate "dwell" ... but, who knows? "Why fix an obvious problem?" is clearly your motto, and may be their's.

Believe-it-or-not, you don't have to know more than the engineers who design something to be able to recognize when there is what is apparently an "acceptable flaw" in the design.

You do have to be a poor consumer if you think that just because you're paying a pretty penny for something that it is always going to be designed well. No doubt, a bean-counters decision which the marketing department is told to bullshit consumers like you ...

Oh, did you buy your SRAM Rival/Force shifters, already?

How are they working out for you?

OR, is SRAM going to manage to double-tap your wallet when you realize that you need the RED shifters to have truly acceptable, better-than-recreational performance?!?

BTW. In case you haven't noticed, the OP still hasn't stated what the gap differential is ...

FYI. I have an Ultegra Hollowtech II triple crank, and it has a "spacer" for the non-drive side ... but, thanks for the tip.

Now, go add some spacers to any of your non-SLK crank's non-drive side so you can have the same asymmetry on all your cranksets OR go play with your buddies, but stay out of the middle of the road ... OR, was there anything else you wanted to say right now?

sideshow_bob

ha ha ha ... keep ranting alf. maybe you could call up SRAM, then Campag, then Shimano tell them how stupid all their R&D teams are and see if they'll hire you. At least you know you're smarter than the lot of them.

RED didn't replace Force btw, they are simply different price points. But then again it's probably a bit too simple of a concept for you to understand.

I did play in the road today, a little over 100km on a Force equipped bike no less. Shifts perfectly, go figure.

--brett

alfeng

My bad -- I do know that the Rival/Force groups are still out there (SRAM is dumping them on the OEM market of American branded bike manufacturers), but I didn't want to use the word "supersede" because I didn't know if you would know what that means.

You do realize that the mechanism for the RED group is different, don't you? It is more than just a price-point difference.

You do know that the RED group has replaced the Rival/Force groups for professional Tour teams, don't you?

Yeah, SRAM is probably going to double-tap your wallet at some point in the future ... how sweet is that going to be for them?!?

Don't fret ... I don't want to have the last laugh ... but, I have little doubt that SRAM wants to have it. So, keep laughing with your "ha ha ha" until they do.

BTW. I don't need to tell the respective engineering groups what may be wrong with their components ... just because YOU don't know what may be wrong in a design doesn't mean that THEY don't already know OR that people outside the engineering groups can't discern what may be wrong ... it IS often, as I mentioned, a matter of the bean-counters stopping the R&D and trotting things out to the market place -- it's the way of the Capitalistic world. I didn't think it was too difficult a concept to grasp that my lack of fawning acceptance over either a "new" or accepted design wasn't an inference that I know better ... but, apparently it continues to be too difficult a concept for you to grasp.

sideshow_bob

woo hoo ... thread has successfully been turned into frothing and foaming alfeng sram rant fest.

i just put force on a second bike in the past 2 weeks. performs just as nice as the de rosa i set up last year. imagine that.

there are still plenty of continental and domestic teams who are using force. maybe you should read:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php...tdl_local_rides

the reality of racing outside of the protour, where teams actually pay for some/all of their gear as opposed to being gifted by sponsors. naturally if sram sponsor a protour team they give them red not force ... duh!! i'll be happily taking one or both of my force bikes to the australian nationals in 2 months.

alfeng

I'm sorry you continue to think that a REALITY CHECK about components is a "rant" ... but, I guess that's your prerogative if it makes you feel better.

FWIW. Yes, it is "how you ride" that makes a difference rather than what a person rides ... that should be a given. AND, it is why I am mystified why some people sometimes embrace components just because they may get a "team discount" if they aren't fully sponsored to use said components.

Regardless, and I am serious, I hope you do well at the Nationals.