Campy: Lower Gears for Extremely Sporadic Use

Arthur Shapiro

Last weekend I failed to complete a grotesquely hilly century (the Mulholland
Challenge, 110 miles / 12000 feet of climbing.) Bonked and completed 98 miles
with 9340'.

I had put a compact UT Record crankset on late last year after enquiries in
this forum, primarily to ease the tortuous climb to the Mt. Baldy ski lifts.
That 34/25 low was sufficient for me to do anything I needed; it was the
prolonged, relentless nature of this particular ride, coupled with getting
lost, plus the temperature range from 35 - 100 that did me in.

My question: what do I need to know before putting in a 29 toother for the
next grotesque ride, the Breathless Agony in a couple weeks?

a). The bike is a combination of Chorus (10 speed) and Record power train
components. Could I use one of the cheaper Campy clusters, given that this
would be put on a tiny number of times per year? Or would I be unhappy with
the "lesser" stuff?

b). Would I need to put on a longer-cage derailleur? Would the answer change
if I consciously agreed to avoid several of the larger cogs on my 50 tooth
chainring?

c). Ditto #b for the chain.

Thanks for any advice. I need to do something and do it fast.

Art

Hank

On Apr 20, 6:40 pm, arthur-tem...@cox.net (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
> Last weekend I failed to complete a grotesquely hilly century (the Mulholland
> Challenge, 110 miles / 12000 feet of climbing.) Bonked and completed 98 miles
> with 9340'.
>
> I had put a compact UT Record crankset on late last year after enquiries in
> this forum, primarily to ease the tortuous climb to the Mt. Baldy ski lifts.
> That 34/25 low was sufficient for me to do anything I needed; it was the
> prolonged, relentless nature of this particular ride, coupled with getting
> lost, plus the temperature range from 35 - 100 that did me in.
>
> My question: what do I need to know before putting in a 29 toother for the
> next grotesque ride, the Breathless Agony in a couple weeks?
>
> a). The bike is a combination of Chorus (10 speed) and Record power train
> components. Could I use one of the cheaper Campy clusters, given that this
> would be put on a tiny number of times per year? Or would I be unhappy with
> the "lesser" stuff?
>
> b). Would I need to put on a longer-cage derailleur? Would the answer change
> if I consciously agreed to avoid several of the larger cogs on my 50 tooth
> chainring?
>
> c). Ditto #b for the chain.
>
> Thanks for any advice. I need to do something and do it fast.
>
> Art

Veloce cassettes work great and run about $50 if you have them shipped
across the pond. I like probikekit.com, because airmail shipping to
the US is free, and is usually faster to the West Coast than orders
from Nashbar. If you must have at least one aluminum carrier, Centaurs
run about $75.

As for the derailleur and chain, I strongly recommend against going
that far out of spec. Especially on the chain. If you bonked on that
last ride, you simply can't trust that you're not going to make a
stupid shift and break your chain, rip the derailleur off the hanger
(or the hanger off the frame) and quite probably crash. If you do opt
to avoid a range, avoid the small/small combos and go with the longer
chain.

FWIW, my CX bike currently has a Veloce UT 50-34 crank, a Centaur long
cage RD and a SRAM PG-970 11-34 cassette. The cog spacing is close
enough to C10 to index just fine with my 10s Veloce Ergos, and I have
a wider range than most road triple setups (52-42-30/12-25). You just
set the limit screws to lock out the final click.

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

On Apr 21, 3:40*am, arthur-tem...@cox.net (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
> Last weekend I failed to complete a grotesquely hilly century (the Mulholland
> Challenge, 110 miles / 12000 feet of climbing.) *Bonked and completed 98miles
> with 9340'.
>
> I had put a compact UT Record crankset on late last year after enquiries in
> this forum, primarily to ease the tortuous climb to the Mt. Baldy ski lifts.
> That 34/25 low was sufficient for me to do anything I needed; it was the
> prolonged, relentless nature of this particular ride, coupled with getting
> lost, plus the temperature range from 35 - 100 that did me in.
>
> My question: what do I need to know before putting in a 29 toother for the
> next grotesque ride, the Breathless Agony in a couple weeks?
>
> a). The bike is a combination of Chorus (10 speed) and Record power train
> components. *Could I use one of the cheaper Campy clusters, given that this
> would be put on a tiny number of times per year? *Or would I be unhappy with
> the "lesser" stuff?
>
> b). Would I need to put on a longer-cage derailleur? *Would the answer change
> if I consciously agreed to avoid several of the larger cogs on my 50 tooth
> chainring?
>
> c). Ditto #b for the chain.
>
> Thanks for any advice. *I need to do something and do it fast.
>
> Art

Sounds like fun!

If you made it 98 out of 110, you don't need to make any technical
changes. Dealing with the temp, as well as eating and pacing will get
you those last 12.

Looking to make temporary tech changes will IMO lead to potential
issues that you won't have time to even discover, let alone solve in
the time you have.

I'd focus on the other aspects of preparation.

Good luck!

Joseph

Artoi

In article <egSOj.169122$nr1.137282@newsfe13.phx>,
arthur-temp-3@cox.net (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:

> Last weekend I failed to complete a grotesquely hilly century (the Mulholland
> Challenge, 110 miles / 12000 feet of climbing.) Bonked and completed 98
> miles
> with 9340'.
>
> I had put a compact UT Record crankset on late last year after enquiries in
> this forum, primarily to ease the tortuous climb to the Mt. Baldy ski lifts.
> That 34/25 low was sufficient for me to do anything I needed; it was the
> prolonged, relentless nature of this particular ride, coupled with getting
> lost, plus the temperature range from 35 - 100 that did me in.
>
> My question: what do I need to know before putting in a 29 toother for the
> next grotesque ride, the Breathless Agony in a couple weeks?
>
> a). The bike is a combination of Chorus (10 speed) and Record power train
> components. Could I use one of the cheaper Campy clusters, given that this
> would be put on a tiny number of times per year? Or would I be unhappy with
> the "lesser" stuff?
>
> b). Would I need to put on a longer-cage derailleur? Would the answer change
> if I consciously agreed to avoid several of the larger cogs on my 50 tooth
> chainring?
>
> c). Ditto #b for the chain.

a) Campy gears match well across their groups. So no problem with your
Veloce cassette proposal.

b) IIRC, for CT setup, a short RD is good for everything below 13-29
cassette, which needs a medium RD.

c) Campy chains don't have quick link, which means breaking and
rejoining will require the use of their somewhat expensive joining link
chain. Or you can use a 3rd party 10 speed chain. In any case, you
obviously will need a different chain length if you are going to make
significant changes to your gearing. It really isn't very smart to try
to compromise as accidents will happen.
--

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com

On Apr 20, 7:40*pm, arthur-tem...@cox.net (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
> Last weekend I failed to complete a grotesquely hilly century (the Mulholland
> Challenge, 110 miles / 12000 feet of climbing.) *Bonked and completed 98miles
> with 9340'.
>
> I had put a compact UT Record crankset on late last year after enquiries in
> this forum, primarily to ease the tortuous climb to the Mt. Baldy ski lifts.
> That 34/25 low was sufficient for me to do anything I needed; it was the
> prolonged, relentless nature of this particular ride, coupled with getting
> lost, plus the temperature range from 35 - 100 that did me in.
>
> My question: what do I need to know before putting in a 29 toother for the
> next grotesque ride, the Breathless Agony in a couple weeks?
>
> a). The bike is a combination of Chorus (10 speed) and Record power train
> components. *Could I use one of the cheaper Campy clusters, given that this
> would be put on a tiny number of times per year? *Or would I be unhappy with
> the "lesser" stuff?

Veloce is Centaur and Chorus w/o the 'spider' of aluminum carrier-
Great cogset with the same durability and performance as the others
for less $ and a WEE bit of weight.
>
> b). Would I need to put on a longer-cage derailleur? *Would the answer change
> if I consciously agreed to avoid several of the larger cogs on my 50 tooth
> chainring?

If your chain is sized correctly now(not too short), just put it on.
We have a demo bike with a short cage, 13-29, FUL sized crank-no
problem.
>
> c). Ditto #b for the chain.

See above
>
> Thanks for any advice. *I need to do something and do it fast.
>
> Art

Arthur Shapiro

Thanks, everyone. Went over to the LBS yesterday and a Veloce cassette will
be here on Thursday. Hope that will get me over the 12000 feet of Breathless
Agony, including one climb exceeding thirty miles in length.

They believe that if I'm willing to tolerate sloppy shifting, I'll get away
with the current derailleur and chain. That's OK given the
once-or-twice-a-year need for this setup.

Art

russellseaton1@yahoo.com

On Apr 22, 10:46*am, art.shap...@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
> Thanks, everyone. *Went over to the LBS yesterday and a Veloce cassette will
> be here on Thursday. * Hope that will get me over the 12000 feet of Breathless
> Agony, including one climb exceeding thirty miles in length.
>
> They believe that if I'm willing to tolerate sloppy shifting, I'll get away
> with the current derailleur and chain. *That's OK given the
> once-or-twice-a-year need for this setup.
>
> Art

Sloppy shifting? I have run a short cage Centaur 10 speed rear
derailleur with a 13-29 cassette (Veloce) and 46-30 chainring double
(Race Face Turbine LP) and Record shifters. No sloppy shifting.

Chalo

Artoi wrote:
>
> In any case, you
> obviously will need a different chain length if you are going to make
> significant changes to your gearing.

I don't think this is the case. A chain that is set to an adequate
length for a 50/29 should work fine for 50/25, given that the small/
small combination is the same (or almost the same) in either case. It
only matters that there is enough wrap capacity for the larger
range.

Chalo

Hank

On Apr 22, 11:43*am, "russellseat...@yahoo.com"
<russellseat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 22, 10:46*am, art.shap...@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
>
> > Thanks, everyone. *Went over to the LBS yesterday and a Veloce cassette will
> > be here on Thursday. * Hope that will get me over the 12000 feet of Breathless
> > Agony, including one climb exceeding thirty miles in length.
>
> > They believe that if I'm willing to tolerate sloppy shifting, I'll get away
> > with the current derailleur and chain. *That's OK given the
> > once-or-twice-a-year need for this setup.
>
> > Art
>
> Sloppy shifting? *I have run a short cage Centaur 10 speed rear
> derailleur with a 13-29 cassette (Veloce) and 46-30 chainring double
> (Race Face Turbine LP) and Record shifters. *No sloppy shifting.

But that's within the short cage's wrap capacity. A 16T gap up front
isn't. I've tried, and you definitely get droopy chain in the small-
small with a 13-29/50-34.

Hank

On Apr 22, 12:23*pm, Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> On Apr 22, 11:43*am, "russellseat...@yahoo.com"
>
>
>
>
>
> <russellseat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 22, 10:46*am, art.shap...@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
>
> > > Thanks, everyone. *Went over to the LBS yesterday and a Veloce cassette will
> > > be here on Thursday. * Hope that will get me over the 12000 feet of Breathless
> > > Agony, including one climb exceeding thirty miles in length.
>
> > > They believe that if I'm willing to tolerate sloppy shifting, I'll getaway
> > > with the current derailleur and chain. *That's OK given the
> > > once-or-twice-a-year need for this setup.
>
> > > Art
>
> > Sloppy shifting? *I have run a short cage Centaur 10 speed rear
> > derailleur with a 13-29 cassette (Veloce) and 46-30 chainring double
> > (Race Face Turbine LP) and Record shifters. *No sloppy shifting.
>
> But that's within the short cage's wrap capacity. A 16T gap up front
> isn't. I've tried, and you definitely get droopy chain in the small-
> small with a 13-29/50-34.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Waitasec...I suck at math. That's a 16T gap, too. 8-)

russellseaton1@yahoo.com

On Apr 22, 2:23*pm, Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
> On Apr 22, 11:43*am, "russellseat...@yahoo.com"
>
>
>
>
>
> <russellseat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 22, 10:46*am, art.shap...@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
>
> > > Thanks, everyone. *Went over to the LBS yesterday and a Veloce cassette will
> > > be here on Thursday. * Hope that will get me over the 12000 feet of Breathless
> > > Agony, including one climb exceeding thirty miles in length.
>
> > > They believe that if I'm willing to tolerate sloppy shifting, I'll getaway
> > > with the current derailleur and chain. *That's OK given the
> > > once-or-twice-a-year need for this setup.
>
> > > Art
>
> > Sloppy shifting? *I have run a short cage Centaur 10 speed rear
> > derailleur with a 13-29 cassette (Veloce) and 46-30 chainring double
> > (Race Face Turbine LP) and Record shifters. *No sloppy shifting.
>
> But that's within the short cage's wrap capacity. A 16T gap up front
> isn't. I've tried, and you definitely get droopy chain in the small-
> small with a 13-29/50-34.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I think 32 is outside the official wrap capacity of a short cage rear
derailleur. But when I hear "sloppy shifting" I think of actual
shifting between cogs. The fact the chain is slightly loose when
cross chained all the way in the small-small doesn't register as
sloppy shifting to me. The chain crisply shifts into and out of this
forbidden combination just fine. And with a 46-30 crank and 13-29
cassette, there is plenty, plenty of overlap at either end of the
cassette so no reason in the world to go to small-small. The 30 ring
only gets used when climbing steep or long hills/mountains. And then
I'm also in the middle and big cogs on the cassette.

Paul Kopit

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 01:40:39 GMT, arthur-temp-3@cox.net (Arthur
Shapiro) wrote:

>a). The bike is a combination of Chorus (10 speed) and Record power train
>components. Could I use one of the cheaper Campy clusters, given that this
>would be put on a tiny number of times per year? Or would I be unhappy with
>the "lesser" stuff?

I know the rides and have done each. If you already have a 12/25, the
cogs can be mixe/matched to make a 12/29. I regular cage rear
derailleur will handle that combination and you will not have to
lengthen the chain. The chain comes very close to the bottom of the
rear derailleur when you are in the small/small but it's not a
problem, even if it ticks.

Paul Kopit

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:23:24 -0700 (PDT), Hank <hank@wirtznet.net>
wrote:

>But that's within the short cage's wrap capacity. A 16T gap up front
>isn't. I've tried, and you definitely get droopy chain in the small-
>small with a 13-29/50-34.

Must depend on your bicycle. I've done it for years.

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com

On Apr 22, 9:46*am, art.shap...@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
> Thanks, everyone. *Went over to the LBS yesterday and a Veloce cassette will
> be here on Thursday. * Hope that will get me over the 12000 feet of Breathless
> Agony, including one climb exceeding thirty miles in length.
>
> They believe that if I'm willing to tolerate sloppy shifting, I'll get away
> with the current derailleur and chain. *That's OK given the
> once-or-twice-a-year need for this setup.
>
> Art

Poppycock. If the Rder is adjusted well, and isn't worn out, the
shifting will be fine.